Why do christian woman refuse to wear headscarf when praying?

[Magenta]

But the reason Eve was created, to a large degree, was to be a helper to Adam.

When Eve was made for Adam, the term used to describe her role was ezer kenegdo.

In Genesis 2:18, the word "helpmeet" does not occur. The Hebrew expression ezer kenegdo appears,
meaning "one who is the same as the other and who surrounds, protects, aids, helps, supports." The
combination of these two Hebrew words has two roots: `-z-r, meaning "to rescue, to save," and g-z-r,
meaning "to be strong." There is no indication of inferiority or of a secondary position in an hierarchical
separation of the male and female "spheres" of responsibility, authority, or social position.

Biblical use of the word ezer often refers to either God or military allies. In all other cases the one
giving the help is superior to the one receiving the help. Adding kenegdo (meet) modifies the meaning
to that of equal rather than superior status. Scripture is so awesome. God says just what He means.

The word ezer is used twice in the Old Testament to refer to the female and 14 times to refer to
God. For example, in the Psalms when David says, "The Lord is my Helper," he uses the word ezer.

 

[SomeDisciple]

Some background on first century Corinth: In 146 BC, Greek Corinth was destroyed, and the Greek population was massacred by the Romans. It was re-made in 44 AD by the Romans and populated with Romans, Jews and Greeks. IOW, Corinth was multicultural: like many other places conquered by the Roman Empire. Aside from the idea of Paul deriving church customs from pagan gentiles being ridiculous... there was no universal Corinthian custom to derive it from.

Now I commend you for remembering me in everything and for maintaining the traditions, just as I passed them on to you.

So, these are traditions that Paul passed on to the Church; How can Paul say he passed on these traditions, if they were gentile customs that were already in place? That doesn't make any sense.

But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for it is just as if her head were shaved. 6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off. And if it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.

So, Paul starts talking about hair here; and this is where people will start talking about how hair is the covering... it's not; it should be clear based on the fact that not all women can grow hair to the extent that it is "given to her as covering" (literally, a mantle/cloak). Based on the reasoning Paul is about to give, it is implied that, yes, it is "shameful" (or "not recognized as a glory") for a woman to be uncovered or have her hair cut off.

7A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8For man did not come from woman, but woman from man. 9Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10For this reason a woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head, because of the angels. In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12For just as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.

Now he is going into the reasoning behind it. Notice it says nothing about local customs, or "blending in with the culture". He gives specific reasons why men need to be uncovered, and women covered. He didn't say "this is because gender distinction" (although that is important, that's not what he said). He didn't say "because we want to control our wives like the Greeks"... he is talking about men and women in general- husbands are not born of their wives, this is about men and women, and how it relates to the glory of God.

Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14Doesn’t nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

Now he says "judge for yourselves", but then he gives a question and a line of reasoning to follow; he is saying "we can learn from this tendency in nature that men should be uncovered, and women covered."

Now if anyone is inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice, nor do the churches of God.

Yes, when I was a teen-aged slacker, I looked at this single verse and said "Good, so I don't have to pay attention to any of that". This should probably be read in context as the answer to the question "Is it proper for a woman to pray to god with her head uncovered?". It really does not make sense to write this off as a local custom when neither the chapter, or historical records suggest it was a local custom. (in Some-teenage-slacker-Disciple's defense... he had a study bible annotated by "expert theologians" that were probably even bigger slackers than him).

http://corinth.sas.upenn.edu/corinth.html
https://www.headcoveringmovement.co...t-match-narrative-cultural-view-head-covering

 

[Dino246]

I guess the context is the woman being the glory of the man in 1 Cor. 11. I thought that the main idea of that passage was headship and submission, because Paul says earlier in the chapter, "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of every woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (vs. 3)

I do realize that man ruling over woman was a consequence of the fall. But the reason Eve was created, to a large degree, was to be a helper to Adam.

‘Helper’ is a rather weak translation for the word, considering that it is used for God Himself in several other verses.

 

[SomeDisciple]

I do realize that man ruling over woman was a consequence of the fall. But the reason Eve was created, to a large degree, was to be a helper to Adam.

On the contrary; do you think Eve's desire being for Adam was a consequence of the fall as well? or was that something that preceded the fall- and brought up to stress it's continuity despite being subject to multiplied birthing pains?
I say this because I really wonder how viewing submission and authority as a curse affects people. I get the impression that there is authority in heaven, and there always has been and will be some kind of authority for us.

 

[HopeinHim98]

‘Helper’ is a rather weak translation for the word, considering that it is used for God Himself in several other verses.

Help meet for him

 

[HopeinHim98]

On the contrary; do you think Eve's desire being for Adam was a consequence of the fall as well? or was that something that preceded the fall- and brought up to stress it's continuity despite being subject to multiplied birthing pains?
I say this because I really wonder how viewing submission and authority as a curse affects people. I get the impression that there is authority in heaven, and there always has been and will be some kind of authority for us.

I don't know exactly how to answer this honestly. It does seem there was authority before the fall and definitely in heaven. And maybe you're right about it being brought up to stress its continuity. Now that I think about it actually, in the NT it says the woman was deceived and not the man, so obviously she had that propensity before the fall and therefore needed an authority? A thought...

I think biblical authority is beautiful and not something to be viewed as negative. I believe we women are the weaker vessels in more ways than one.

 

[Underwhosewings]

Hair is not the covering.

1 Corinthians 11:4,13 KJV
Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
[13] Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Some background on first century Corinth: In 146 BC, Greek Corinth was destroyed, and the Greek population was massacred by the Romans. It was re-made in 44 AD by the Romans and populated with Romans, Jews and Greeks. IOW, Corinth was multicultural: like many other places conquered by the Roman Empire. Aside from the idea of Paul deriving church customs from pagan gentiles being ridiculous... there was no universal Corinthian custom to derive it from.

Now I commend you for remembering me in everything and for maintaining the traditions, just as I passed them on to you.

So, these are traditions that Paul passed on to the Church; How can Paul say he passed on these traditions, if they were gentile customs that were already in place? That doesn't make any sense.

But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for it is just as if her head were shaved. 6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off. And if it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.

So, Paul starts talking about hair here; and this is where people will start talking about how hair is the covering... it's not; it should be clear based on the fact that not all women can grow hair to the extent that it is "given to her as covering" (literally, a mantle/cloak). Based on the reasoning Paul is about to give, it is implied that, yes, it is "shameful" (or "not recognized as a glory") for a woman to be uncovered or have her hair cut off.

7A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8For man did not come from woman, but woman from man. 9Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10For this reason a woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head, because of the angels. In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12For just as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.

Now he is going into the reasoning behind it. Notice it says nothing about local customs, or "blending in with the culture". He gives specific reasons why men need to be uncovered, and women covered. He didn't say "this is because gender distinction" (although that is important, that's not what he said). He didn't say "because we want to control our wives like the Greeks"... he is talking about men and women in general- husbands are not born of their wives, this is about men and women, and how it relates to the glory of God.

Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14Doesn’t nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

Now he says "judge for yourselves", but then he gives a question and a line of reasoning to follow; he is saying "we can learn from this tendency in nature that men should be uncovered, and women covered."

Now if anyone is inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice, nor do the churches of God.

Yes, when I was a teen-aged slacker, I looked at this single verse and said "Good, so I don't have to pay attention to any of that". This should probably be read in context as the answer to the question "Is it proper for a woman to pray to god with her head uncovered?". It really does not make sense to write this off as a local custom when neither the chapter, or historical records suggest it was a local custom. (in Some-teenage-slacker-Disciple's defense... he had a study bible annotated by "expert theologians" that were probably even bigger slackers than him).

http://corinth.sas.upenn.edu/corinth.html
https://www.headcoveringmovement.co...t-match-narrative-cultural-view-head-covering

I don't think it was a local or Greek custom. It was and remains a Middle Eastern custom.
We are still reading a Middle Eastern collection of books through Western spectacles.

 

[SomeDisciple]

I don't think it was a local or Greek custom. It was and remains a Middle Eastern custom.

In general, it seems to me that covering was practiced all over the place albeit, in a diversity of ways. I do think that western people are or could be averse to the idea because they might be "afraid" (or something to that effect) that Churches will or could become like Islam, or too easternized or something to that effect; but I don't think that is a reasonable way of thinking about it, considering America had and to an extent still carries on these traditions.
A major factor is that whenever there is an incident in one of these American sub-cultures (Amish et. al.) the news media makes a report: and instantly everyone forgets about the rape, theft, extortion, and murder in the secular world and thinks about how bad "religion" is. That's certainly not to downplay the experiences of victims of spiritual abuses in any way; but the abuses and corruption of the secular world runs deep as well.

We are still reading a Middle Eastern collection of books through Western spectacles.

Yes, and maybe a collection of foundational-ancient books through some futuristic-ideological binoculars from the top of a tower. I think "the west" as a whole has the plank-in-the-eye syndrome when it comes to our examination of the middle and far east; and we should be focusing on ourselves rather than trying to pontificate/proselytize the world. But that's probably a discussion for another thread.

 

[Adstar]

And that is why some sects of Christianity "require" or suggest that women never cut their hair. I don't have a problem with that, as long as the woman is doing it of her own conscience, as a sign of reverence.... but to try to make it a scriptural "law" is missing the mark, in my opinion.
If they are going to do that, then they should require men's hair to be no longer than 1/2".....
The silliness can go about as far as people will let it.... just ask the Pharisees.....

Let everyone's conscience be clear before God on the issue... In the end we all will face Him..

 

[Underwhosewings]

There is no call in the Bible for woman to wear headscarf... The Bible says that God has given woman long hair as a covering so no other covering is necessary..

Hair is not a covering for a woman in prayer, otherwise men would have to be shaven bald before prayer. 😅

 

[Blain]

The head covering was Hebrew tradition. Yes Paul explains about the covering but that was also a thing that only the Jews did if your not Jewish why would you be held to their traditions? You think that God cares if women prays a heartfelt prayer to and their heads aren't covered? You think he doesn't honor such a prayer? He looks to the heart not what we wear prayer is not supposed to be a dictating ordeal it is a communication with us and God.

I will say however if your going before the Lord that is differently trust me if your before him it doesn't matter if your a man or women your not going to lift your head to him in fact when Jesus appeared in my room when I was in bed his presence was so intense I instantly covered my head and dared not move or speak I could only sit there and revere him.

When go before him it is a purposeful act when it comes to prayer when you actually get on your knees and lower your head you are now going before him it is different than just saying a prayer this is when the covering might come in but it has to be from the heart with the pure motive to respect and be modest not because others or the bible says to

If your man you need to keep your head lowered showing the same thing

Either way man or women to show respect and modesty your head is never lifted or uncovered you may not be able to see it but when you intentionally go before him in your prayer your head is covered with his grace and his love he honors those who honor him so when you do this he is covering you he is adorning a crwon of glory unto you

This whole thing about women covering their heads and not being allowed to speak or teach is simply ridiculous you can't take the scriptures as they are without first understanding his character otherwise you get people like the op

 

[Underwhosewings]

There is no call in the Bible for woman to wear headscarf... The Bible says that God has given woman long hair as a covering so no other covering is necessary..

When the church gathers together, the angels, as ministering spirits, are there beholding the order.
The woman has “power on her head,” she has a symbol of authority, she has covered her head, she can offer up her worship to God (in the known language of course) in the church.

1 Corinthians 11:10 KJV
For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

Not talking about legalism here.
I pray/talk to God many times, walking down the street without my head covered.

 

[Adstar]

Hair is not a covering for a woman in prayer, otherwise men would have to be shaven bald before prayer. 😅

It does not say hair is a covering.. It says LONG hair is a covering.. No need for men to go bald..

 

[Blain]

It does not say hair is a covering.. It says LONG hair is a covering.. No need for men to go bald..

Long hair is a covering but even with that they still had the tradition of having coverings over their faces and head

I also noticed lots of people even today when the bride is walking to her husband her head and face are covered until she stands before him.

The symbolism of marriage and how it relates to Christ and us as his bride is a common theme in scripture the covering is there but only until she gets in front of the groom then she unveils herself.

Just something to think about

 

[Underwhosewings]

not being allowed to speak or teach is simply ridiculous

Amen.

 

[Adstar]

Long hair is a covering but even with that they still had the tradition of having coverings over their faces and head

I also noticed lots of people even today when the bride is walking to her husband her head and face are covered until she stands before him.

The symbolism of marriage and how it relates to Christ and us as his bride is a common theme in scripture the covering is there but only until she gets in front of the groom then she unveils herself.

Just something to think about

Yes traditions.. But we are not talking about traditions. we are talking about the Word of God.. It is no co-incidence that the passage being discussed here ends with the following verse..

(1 Corinthians 11:13-16) "Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? {14} Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? {15} But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. {16} But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God."

What was the Custom / tradition ??? Woman wearing head coverings... Paul says we have no such custom/traditon in the churches of God... It cannot be any more clearer..

 

[SomeDisciple]

The head covering was Hebrew tradition. Yes Paul explains about the covering but that was also a thing that only the Jews did if your not Jewish why would you be held to their traditions?

What makes you think Paul is talking about a Jewish custom? Here is how Jewish Virtual Library describes the Jewish customs...

Jewish tradition requires men to cover the head as a sign of humility before God, and women, as evidence of modesty before men, although the Bible does not explicitly command either men or women to cover the head.

And not only is what Paul describes different from Jewish custom, it is also different from Greek and Roman customs as well.

You think that God cares if women prays a heartfelt prayer to and their heads aren't covered? You think he doesn't honor such a prayer?

It depends on what you mean by "heartfelt"... if somebody is not familiar with this scripture, I don't think it's held against them. But if someone's attitude in prayer is "Screw your customs Lord, I don't need a headcovering... oh by the way, give me my daily bread" I don't think it's going to go well for them.

when Jesus appeared in my room when I was in bed his presence was so intense I instantly covered my head and dared not move or speak I could only sit there and revere him.

Why? Where in the scriptures does it say you should do this?

This whole thing about women covering their heads and not being allowed to speak or teach is simply ridiculous

No... no, it's not ridiculous. In fact there are very, very good reasons for those things in the scriptures.

 

[SomeDisciple]

What was the Custom / tradition ??? Woman wearing head coverings... Paul says we have no such custom/traditon in the churches of God... It cannot be any more clearer..

How do you say "it can not be any more clearer"? You took a passage that asks the question "is it comely for a woman to pray unto god uncovered?" and then said the custom in question was "women wearing head coverings". That sounds pretty backwards to me.

 

[Underwhosewings]

Matthew 23:24 KJV
Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.