Calvin did not invent the doctrines of grace

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reneweddaybyday

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rogerg said:
So then because not everyone will become saved, you are saying that you believe in election, right?
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Romans 1:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein [the gospel of Christ] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

vs 18 – the words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to suppress, restrain.


Those who do not suppress, restrain the truth believe the gospel when the gospel is preached ... the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation

When the gospel is preached, a person either rejects what he or she hears ... or a person believes what he or she hears.
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Magenta

Magenta

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Hebrews 11:6
Oops! Somebody did something in order to be rewarded by God .:eek::)
 
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VARob

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rogerg said:
It is either by grace, but since not everyone will be saved, that means it has to be by election, or that the person to be saved must do something for it. there is no third option - has to be one or the other. so which one is it, (or are you going to duck like you did when I asked you for an example of a mystery not covered in/by the gospel)? Election or not?
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Election is false.

People must do something in order to be saved. They must choose to believe the gospel, something anyone can do.

God did His part 2000 years ago, making it available for everyone to be saved. That's what He wants (1 Tim 2:4; Acts 17:30). It's not God's doing that many people will not be saved. The unsaved people themselves are responsible.
 
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rogerg

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reneweddaybyday said:
Those who do not suppress, restrain the truth are then "placed in possession of it" (to use your vernacular) ...
.
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Nope.

[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
 
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rogerg

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Magenta said:

Hebrews 11:6
Oops! Somebody did something in order to be rewarded by God .:eek::)
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Christ's faith given only to those He saves.

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
 
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reneweddaybyday

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rogerg said:
It is either by grace, but since not everyone will be saved, that means it has to be by election, or that the person to be saved must do something for it. there is no third option
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:rolleyes: ... just because that is the only option you can fathom does not mean that is the only option.

Salvation is by grace through faith ... the ones who reject do not partake of the gift ...


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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T

ThereRoseaLamb

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rogerg said:
It is either by grace, but since not everyone will be saved, that means it has to be by election, or that the person to be saved must do something for it. there is no third option
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Quotes are getting tangled here and in another thread this happened and I was accused of something another poster said. That still hasn't been cleared up.

Here's the quote "It is either by grace, but since not everyone will be saved, that means it has to be by election, or that the person to be saved must do something for it. there is no third option - has to be one or the other. so which one is it, (or are you going to duck like you did when I asked you for an example of a mystery not covered in/by the gospel)? Election or no"

The bolded and underlined part is that to me? I don't recall that. Is or only part of this to me? I never run from a question on that you can be sure. But I want to make sure its to me.
 
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rogerg

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VARob said:
Election is false.

People must do something in order to be saved. They must choose to believe the gospel, something anyone can do.

God did His part 2000 years ago, making it available for everyone to be saved. That's what He wants (1 Tim 2:4; Acts 17:30). It's not God's doing that many people will not be saved. The unsaved people themselves are responsible.
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The "all" are those the Father gave to the Son. They, and they alone, will, and must be saved, and no others.

[Jhn 6:37, 39 KJV]
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. ...
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
 
V

VARob

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rogerg said:
Christ's faith given only to those He saves.

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
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Are you KJVO, Roger?

ASV
yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

AMP
yet we know that a man is not justified [and placed in right standing with God] by works of the Law, but [only] through faith in [God’s beloved Son,] Christ Jesus. And even we [as Jews] have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the Law. By observing the Law no one will ever be justified [declared free of the guilt of sin and its penalty].

AMPC
Yet we know that a man is justified or reckoned righteous and in right standing with God not by works of the Law, but [only] through faith and [absolute] reliance on and adherence to and trust in Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One). [Therefore] even we [ourselves] have believed on Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the Law [for we cannot be justified by any observance of the ritual of the Law given by Moses], because by keeping legal rituals and by works no human being can ever be justified (declared righteous and put in right standing with God).

CSB
and yet because we know that a person is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we ourselves have believed in Christ Jesus. This was so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.

ERV
But we know that no one is made right with God by following the law. It is trusting in Jesus Christ that makes a person right with God. So we have put our faith in Christ Jesus, because we wanted to be made right with God. And we are right with him because we trusted in Christ—not because we followed the law. I can say this because no one can be made right with God by following the law.

EHV
We know that a person is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ. So we also believed in Christ Jesus that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because no one will be justified by the works of the law.

ESV
yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
 
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rogerg

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ThereRoseaLamb said:
Quotes are getting tangled here and in another thread this happened and I was accused of something another poster said. That still hasn't been cleared up.

Here's the quote "It is either by grace, but since not everyone will be saved, that means it has to be by election, or that the person to be saved must do something for it. there is no third option - has to be one or the other. so which one is it, (or are you going to duck like you did when I asked you for an example of a mystery not covered in/by the gospel)? Election or no"

The bolded and underlined part is that to me? I don't recall that. Is or only part of this to me? I never run from a question on that you can be sure. But I want to make sure its to me.
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No my fault, I was in the process of replying to reneweddaybyday but forgot it was there. I edited and deleted it. Sorry
for the confusion.
 
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VARob

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rogerg said:
The "all" are those the Father gave to the Son. They, and they alone, will, and must be saved, and no others.
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You guys have special definitions of words. You need them in order to support your beliefs.

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

[Jhn 6:37, 39 KJV]
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. ...
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Click to expand...
God gives to Jesus Christ people who choose to believe.
 
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rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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VARob said:
Are you KJVO, Roger?

ASV
yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

AMP
yet we know that a man is not justified [and placed in right standing with God] by works of the Law, but [only] through faith in [God’s beloved Son,] Christ Jesus. And even we [as Jews] have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the Law. By observing the Law no one will ever be justified [declared free of the guilt of sin and its penalty].

AMPC
Yet we know that a man is justified or reckoned righteous and in right standing with God not by works of the Law, but [only] through faith and [absolute] reliance on and adherence to and trust in Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One). [Therefore] even we [ourselves] have believed on Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the Law [for we cannot be justified by any observance of the ritual of the Law given by Moses], because by keeping legal rituals and by works no human being can ever be justified (declared righteous and put in right standing with God).

CSB
and yet because we know that a person is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we ourselves have believed in Christ Jesus. This was so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.

ERV
But we know that no one is made right with God by following the law. It is trusting in Jesus Christ that makes a person right with God. So we have put our faith in Christ Jesus, because we wanted to be made right with God. And we are right with him because we trusted in Christ—not because we followed the law. I can say this because no one can be made right with God by following the law.

EHV
We know that a person is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ. So we also believed in Christ Jesus that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because no one will be justified by the works of the law.

ESV
yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
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No, I am not KJVO and it is "of"" not "in". The noun is genitive signifying ownership.
 
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rogerg

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VARob said:
You guys have special definitions of words. You need them in order to support your beliefs.

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:


God gives to Jesus Christ people who choose to believe.
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It is the logic God used in the Bible. Those who become saved cannot be other than those the Father gave to Jesus because
only those given become saved.
 
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reneweddaybyday

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Mar 23, 2016
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rogerg said:
[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Click to expand...
New International Version
know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

New Living Translation
Yet we know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law.”

English Standard Version
yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

New King James Version
knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

New American Standard Bible
nevertheless, knowing that a person is not justified by works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the Law; since by works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

NASB 1995
nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

NASB 1977
nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified.
.
 
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VARob

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rogerg said:
It is the logic God used in the Bible. Those who become saved cannot be other than those the Father gave to Jesus because only those given become saved.
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It is not logic that "all" does not mean all, or that "all men every where" does not mean what it says.
 
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rogerg

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VARob said:
Serious question: Why are you attracted to Calvinism?
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Fair question - because it makes Christ alone the Saviour and without it, there cannot be grace, because
something besides grace alone would be required from the recipient for salvation
 
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