Works of the Law
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Well as I said in the discussion a year ago, the one PenEd was referring to, was that if you compare the sequence of events in Genesis 1 to the sequence of events in Genesis 2, the sequence of events do not match up. For example...in Genesis 1, the animals are created before man. In Genesis 2, Adam is created before the animals. And in Genesis 1, male and female are created at the same time. In Genesis 2, Adam is created some time before Eve is created.
There are clearly some unclear passages – Jesus never stated he did not follow the Law and was clear that he has not come to change anything that came before. Paul also even after Jesus ascended followed the law;
Acts 21
25 As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”
26 The next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he went to the temple to give notice of the date when the days of purification would end and the offering would be made for each of them.
[Paul never objected to the law to continue to the Gentiles and even purified himself based on the law.]
James 2:20- 20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead (2:26)
"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' (Matthew 7:23)
"So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. (Matthew 23:28)
Revelation 2:20 - 20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. [implying clearly there is a law and it has not been done away]
There are many more passages.
As to Paul – his message is slightly confusing;
“Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law!” (Romans 3:31).
Then you have;
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. (Romans 10:9)
Romans 3:28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
Was Paul following Jesus – hard to tell, some times he says yes and sometimes its his own gospel. No third party evidence;
Yes:
Galatians 1:12 For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through a revelation of Jesus Christ.
“He (Jesus) brought the hostility to an end, by abolishing the Law of commandments with its regulations”. (Ephesians 2:14)
Arguable:
Therefore, having left the beginning teaching of the Christ, we should go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works, and faith in God, (Hebrews 6:1)
"Rememebr that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel" 2 Timothy 2:8
Many more passages for both opinions, hence the continued debate – do we follow the law or not.
As you once found it impossible...not to sin, when you are born of God, you should find it just as as impossible...to sin.
Before someone is born again, they must go through a period of....repentance.
Repentance is basically when your motivation for keeping the Lords commandments, change.
When you begin to actively repent, (fight against the temptation to sin against God), the Holy Spirits conviction will cause you to feel guilt over sin.
But after a time, as your relationship with God improves, and you grow in his Grace, then you will find yourself keeping the Lords commandments, because you love God. And when this happens....you will know you are in a state of repentance. And that obedience you show to God, because you love him, is what causes us to die to sin. And soon after you fall into a state of repentance, sin will die and you will be a new creation. Your nature will simply change...from a slave to sin..to a servant of righteousness.
God also gives us an undeniable sign when we are born again.
That sign? Paul talks about it in (Romans 7), his testimony of being born again. But I will need to give you my testimony in my next post...to make it more relatable to you.
Before someone is born again, they must go through a period of....repentance.
Repentance is basically when your motivation for keeping the Lords commandments, change.
When you begin to actively repent, (fight against the temptation to sin against God), the Holy Spirits conviction will cause you to feel guilt over sin.
But after a time, as your relationship with God improves, and you grow in his Grace, then you will find yourself keeping the Lords commandments, because you love God. And when this happens....you will know you are in a state of repentance. And that obedience you show to God, because you love him, is what causes us to die to sin. And soon after you fall into a state of repentance, sin will die and you will be a new creation. Your nature will simply change...from a slave to sin..to a servant of righteousness.
God also gives us an undeniable sign when we are born again.
That sign? Paul talks about it in (Romans 7), his testimony of being born again. But I will need to give you my testimony in my next post...to make it more relatable to you.
Well brother...it seems everyone has run out of fuel to debate me on "Works and Grace", so if you like I will discuss it with you. As I said, it's a fascinating subject!!
We have all been brainwashed into believing the popular Adam and Eve story. It's a story I was also told when I was a kid. As a kid, you never question the story. But as an adult, when you look back at Genesis, you realize they pretty much skip over Genesis 1 and begin in Genesis 2.
Why?
Because they wrote the story to their understanding, or should I say misunderstanding of why Adam is called the first man. This story was told to me by the Holy Spirit...which started off from a teaching I received about who the Giants were in (Genesis 6:4).
We have all been brainwashed into believing the popular Adam and Eve story. It's a story I was also told when I was a kid. As a kid, you never question the story. But as an adult, when you look back at Genesis, you realize they pretty much skip over Genesis 1 and begin in Genesis 2.
Why?
Because they wrote the story to their understanding, or should I say misunderstanding of why Adam is called the first man. This story was told to me by the Holy Spirit...which started off from a teaching I received about who the Giants were in (Genesis 6:4).
The condensed version of my testimony. It's gonna sound like a dark mysterious story, but that's the only way I know how to relate it to human understanding. Some of it you have experienced for yourself.
I had a sin (singular) in my life, a sin I had battled for over 15 years. A sin, I had not known was a sin, before receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. I didn't understand why I received the gift, but it seemed to be the gift of conviction for the rest of my life at the time. I only told one Pastor about it, and he said, "We all sin and it was natural for man to sin".
So in ignorance, I resigned myself to trying to keep this one commandment. A commandment I kept because I was punished by God....every time I broke it. It was horrible, as you probably already know..as I suspect you deal with one too. I didn't read the bible during that time, so I didn't know God punished me because he loved me. God became more a task master than the loving Father I had expected when becoming a Christian.
Well my friend...repent of all your sins, and when you are brought into repentance....thats when you will overcome that sin. And one day it will cease to exist. Many believe this is impossible, but with God...you must believe....nothing is impossible! When that sin is gone...it"s because you have been born of God.
But know this...when you repent, after you begin with a confession and ask Gods forgiveness for those sins, you will then be made aware of all the sin in your life. I'm sure you have already done this before, but you didn't understand what was happening. Well anyway, after you are in the light,...just do the best you can in obedience to the commandments you are asked to keep. And When you sin...and you will for a time..confess the sin and you will continue down that same illuminated path, until you come to the road of Repentance. And that's when the healing really begins!! If you stop confessing your sin before you get to the road to Repentance, you will once again....lose your way.
How long does it take to be born again?
That's totally up to God. I followed the path for 6 months before I was adopted into the family of God.
Now I've been as open and honest as I can be with you, but I do not expect you to believe a word of it.
Just do it..Repent and discover the Truth on your own. This is the only way you will believe, the unbelievable story I just told you. Now, here come the Nay Sayers...LOL
I had a sin (singular) in my life, a sin I had battled for over 15 years. A sin, I had not known was a sin, before receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. I didn't understand why I received the gift, but it seemed to be the gift of conviction for the rest of my life at the time. I only told one Pastor about it, and he said, "We all sin and it was natural for man to sin".
So in ignorance, I resigned myself to trying to keep this one commandment. A commandment I kept because I was punished by God....every time I broke it. It was horrible, as you probably already know..as I suspect you deal with one too. I didn't read the bible during that time, so I didn't know God punished me because he loved me. God became more a task master than the loving Father I had expected when becoming a Christian.
Well my friend...repent of all your sins, and when you are brought into repentance....thats when you will overcome that sin. And one day it will cease to exist. Many believe this is impossible, but with God...you must believe....nothing is impossible! When that sin is gone...it"s because you have been born of God.
But know this...when you repent, after you begin with a confession and ask Gods forgiveness for those sins, you will then be made aware of all the sin in your life. I'm sure you have already done this before, but you didn't understand what was happening. Well anyway, after you are in the light,...just do the best you can in obedience to the commandments you are asked to keep. And When you sin...and you will for a time..confess the sin and you will continue down that same illuminated path, until you come to the road of Repentance. And that's when the healing really begins!! If you stop confessing your sin before you get to the road to Repentance, you will once again....lose your way.
How long does it take to be born again?
That's totally up to God. I followed the path for 6 months before I was adopted into the family of God.
Now I've been as open and honest as I can be with you, but I do not expect you to believe a word of it.
Just do it..Repent and discover the Truth on your own. This is the only way you will believe, the unbelievable story I just told you. Now, here come the Nay Sayers...LOL
As much as I desire to live in a sinless estate, I cannot this side of glory. That's the reason I asked you what was entailed in the keeping of a commandment. Because, even if you could surmise all that a commandment required, you would further have to do so continuously and to the utmost. Given the condition of fallen flesh, it is not possible.
What is possible is to make the law equivalent to a set of practices and then either do or do not as one believes in keeping with any particular commandment. This, incidentally, was the practice of the Pharisees. Though outwardly they appeared pious and whited, inside they were full of dead men's bones.
They were in fact deceiving themselves. Unfortunately, such is the case with you. I encourage you to take a few of the commandments and rediscover what is entailed in keeping them and see if you indeed keep them, keep them continuously, and keep them to the uttermost.
Grace and peace.
What is possible is to make the law equivalent to a set of practices and then either do or do not as one believes in keeping with any particular commandment. This, incidentally, was the practice of the Pharisees. Though outwardly they appeared pious and whited, inside they were full of dead men's bones.
They were in fact deceiving themselves. Unfortunately, such is the case with you. I encourage you to take a few of the commandments and rediscover what is entailed in keeping them and see if you indeed keep them, keep them continuously, and keep them to the uttermost.
Grace and peace.
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Like i said
If people would take time to understand the different laws they would see that Paul and Jesus, the whole bible, does not controdict itself.
Keeping any law will not purchase salvation, that comes by faith alone.
We don't need to keep Some laws because Jesus is the fulfillment and has replaced them.
Some laws are a hedge of protection and help us to know sin and avoid sin.
Do we follow the law or not? Knowing which law and why we are to follow them makes the answer simple.
If people would take time to understand the different laws they would see that Paul and Jesus, the whole bible, does not controdict itself.
Keeping any law will not purchase salvation, that comes by faith alone.
We don't need to keep Some laws because Jesus is the fulfillment and has replaced them.
Some laws are a hedge of protection and help us to know sin and avoid sin.
Do we follow the law or not? Knowing which law and why we are to follow them makes the answer simple.
We will not be like Jesus..our righteousness is as filthy rages. We can not make ourselves clean or perfect. Self righteousness is useless and even evil.
With the robe that Jesus gives us our righteousness is perfect. Praise God.
But do we then go on to.... ..Make void the law? ..Continue in sin?
..Let sin reign in your mortal body, obey the lusts thereof. ..Yield your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
It is not possible to establish our own self righteousness, for ours is as filthy rages but that doesn't mean we can't die to self and aim to surrender all sin, and become servents of Jesus.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
With the robe that Jesus gives us our righteousness is perfect. Praise God.
But do we then go on to.... ..Make void the law? ..Continue in sin?
..Let sin reign in your mortal body, obey the lusts thereof. ..Yield your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
It is not possible to establish our own self righteousness, for ours is as filthy rages but that doesn't mean we can't die to self and aim to surrender all sin, and become servents of Jesus.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
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Why do people assume just because someone has come to the conclusion that they will continue to sin that that causes a believer to just throw up his hands in defeat? Or that now there will be no striving against sin?
Last I knew we were to seek His kingdom and His righteousness. That's what true believers do. They don't excuse sin: they confess it. And look to Christ for the power to overcome it.
Last I knew we were to seek His kingdom and His righteousness. That's what true believers do. They don't excuse sin: they confess it. And look to Christ for the power to overcome it.
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Who is speaking? Satan or Jesus?
"Your so sinful just give up, don't even try to obey the law. "
"There is no condennation, trust and obey"
Satan wants you aim low and not even try.
Jesus wants us to take the promises and believe in the His power to overcome.
Don't look at self and your righteousness, look at Jesus and His righteousness. If i Aim to be like Jesus, i will keep the commandments like Him.
"Your so sinful just give up, don't even try to obey the law. "
"There is no condennation, trust and obey"
Satan wants you aim low and not even try.
Jesus wants us to take the promises and believe in the His power to overcome.
Don't look at self and your righteousness, look at Jesus and His righteousness. If i Aim to be like Jesus, i will keep the commandments like Him.
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Is the statement true or false?
You cherry picked one sentence out of several paragraphs. Had you read the paragraphs closely, you would have known I was in conversation with someone who holds to sinless perfection. So of course the sentence above would be about the inability of a person to come to an estate of sinless perfection.
Perhaps before correcting someone, read the entirety of the conversation.
You cherry picked one sentence out of several paragraphs. Had you read the paragraphs closely, you would have known I was in conversation with someone who holds to sinless perfection. So of course the sentence above would be about the inability of a person to come to an estate of sinless perfection.
Perhaps before correcting someone, read the entirety of the conversation.
If your upset by what i said, I'm sorry for upsetting you.
I was worried that you may have gone to the other extreem. If you agree with what was said there is no need to take offence.
My point is that we should AIM for sinless perfection through Christ. Not self righteous perfection which is impossible. I said what i did because i was worried you have gone to the other extreem and given up on overcoming the world, given up on obeying the law, given up on serving Jesus because of the evil we are born in.
You can agree or disagree..
Discuss it.
I was worried that you may have gone to the other extreem. If you agree with what was said there is no need to take offence.
My point is that we should AIM for sinless perfection through Christ. Not self righteous perfection which is impossible. I said what i did because i was worried you have gone to the other extreem and given up on overcoming the world, given up on obeying the law, given up on serving Jesus because of the evil we are born in.
You can agree or disagree..
Discuss it.
Sometimes it helps to make a bible verse read the way people say it reads...to open their eyes. So lets look at the passage below, as it's actually written in the Bible and according to how it should be written to fit your doctrine.
(1 John 3:9-10) Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil....
But according to what you believe, The word, "NOT" should be removed from this passage. Now let's do that....and see how you read it.
Whosoever is born of God does commit sin; (Why?)...for his seed remains in him: and he can sin, (Why)..because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest,...
Honestly now....doesn't your interpretation sound like Blasphemy?
(1 John 3:9-10) Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil....
But according to what you believe, The word, "NOT" should be removed from this passage. Now let's do that....and see how you read it.
Whosoever is born of God does commit sin; (Why?)...for his seed remains in him: and he can sin, (Why)..because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest,...
Honestly now....doesn't your interpretation sound like Blasphemy?
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