Works of the Law

[PennEd]

My bust...I have never known anyone like you, that shows their love for their brother with insults.

More tactics!

Exposing your error in doctrine is NOT insults.

By the way...again, where did I lie in my statement?

You claimed I hated you, with ZERO proof. That was not only a lie, but a deliberate attack on my character.

 

[Cameron143]

Gods Grace is like a burning ember. By itself, it will remain just an ember. But should you put kindling on the ember, it will bursts into a flame from which we receive a warm comfortable glow. This is how we
Where do we get the kindling to make the ember burn?

Jesus gives us that answer in (John 14:21-24), which is the very foundation of Pauls teachings on Grace, which I will explain in a few paragraphs.
Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, "But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?" Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching.
According to Jesus, does God love everyone, as many are taught,...or is it the folks who love Jesus?
According to Jesus, How does God know we love Jesus?
Jesus died, because he loves us, but to gain the Love of God the Father...well he needs a reason to love us....And Jesus gives us the reason in these verses.

Paul taught, "Not by Works, but by Grace...for if it's by Works it's not Grace.
That's very true!!
But what does Paul mean?
How do we reconcile that teaching with what he Paul taught in (Romans 2:5-7) and what Jesus taught in (John 14:21-23)?
It's all about the motivation. Do you keep the Lords commandments because you Love him,
or do you keep the Lords commandments expecting salvation as your payment?
We've all had jobs...working 40-70 hours a week. Did we work because we loved the company, or are we there for the paycheck? Obviously...our motivation is the Paycheck.
For many Christians they are taught...if you believe, if you say the sinners prayer, if you have faith, if you get baptized...etc, you will be saved. So, what is the motivation? Now if you're honest...They do these Works as required by men....expecting a payment of Salvation.

What is the motivation, at say....a revival meeting?
They are told...If you do not come forward...you will "Burn in Hells Fire!!"
Their motivation is fear, and because of that fear, they do these works because they are told if they do, they will be saved. So again...they do not do these works because they Love Jesus, its because they except to be saved for doing what these false teachers tell them to do. Salvation is therefore, a payment for their Works.

This is why people need to be brought to repentance...because this is when they keep the Lords commandments...because they Love him. And that's when Grace grows into a burning flame..No false teachings can put out.

This took me a long time to write, so I'm not going to preview it...so please forgive me for any mistakes.

I appreciate you taking the time to answer.

The best part about John 14 to me isn't obedience, as important as that is. The best part is when the Father and Jesus come and pitch their tent and tabernacle with us. Unfortunately, most people think of eternal life as some future event and salvation a thing to be endured. In fact, eternal life is a present reality and according to John 17:3 consists of knowing God the Father and Jesus. This knowing isn't merely a fact gathering expedition, but an ongoing interaction that of the life of Christ lived out in us. This is the significance of John 15 and the teaching of the vine and the branches.
By this continual interaction of the life of Jesus applied to us by the Holy Spirit, we manifest the divine nature. The fruit that grows is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, etc. Thus, the image of God that Adam and Eve were supposed to multiply and fill the earth with, and which was marred by sin, is being restored in man and spread through the great commission.
As the gospel is shared, unbelievers are converted into life, empowered by the Holy Spirit, and more and more reflect the image of Christ. As they do, the image of God is again being spread across the earth. In this, God is glorified.
Eventually, this image will be so pervasive in the earth that the glory of the knowledge of the Lord will fill the earth as the waters cover the seas just as it says in Habakkuk 2:14.

 

[Goliath]

More tactics!
Exposing your error in doctrine is NOT insults.
You claimed I hated you, with ZERO proof. That was not only a lie, but a deliberate attack on my character.

Where did I say you hated me?
You could have Pasted the supposed lie you say I posted. It would clearly show the evidence of your conviction. But you didn''t.
Why?
Because that evidence wouldn't support your accusation and it would have proven that your accusation was false.
Now....Isn't that the Truth?

Instead of putting yourself on the spot, do like others who don't have enough knowledge to engage me in these discussions, and give me a one of those big red X's. It's okay to disagree...but slander, I'm not cool with that.

 

[PennEd]

Where did I say you hated me?
You could have Pasted the supposed lie you say I posted. It would clearly show the evidence of your conviction. But you didn''t.
Why?
Because that evidence wouldn't support your accusation and it would have proven that your accusation was false.
Now....Isn't that the Truth?

Instead of putting yourself on the spot, do like others who don't have enough knowledge to engage me in these discussions, and give me a one of those big red X's. It's okay to disagree...but slander, I'm not cool with that.

Is this how you are able to claim sinless perfection? Selective amnesia?

Cmon guy, post 337

 

[Goliath]

I appreciate you taking the time to answer.

The best part about John 14 to me isn't obedience, as important as that is. The best part is when the Father and Jesus come and pitch their tent and tabernacle with us. Unfortunately, most people think of eternal life as some future event and salvation a thing to be endured. In fact, eternal life is a present reality and according to John 17:3 consists of knowing God the Father and Jesus. This knowing isn't merely a fact gathering expedition, but an ongoing interaction that of the life of Christ lived out in us. This is the significance of John 15 and the teaching of the vine and the branches.
By this continual interaction of the life of Jesus applied to us by the Holy Spirit, we manifest the divine nature. The fruit that grows is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, etc. Thus, the image of God that Adam and Eve were supposed to multiply and fill the earth with, and which was marred by sin, is being restored in man and spread through the great commission.
As the gospel is shared, unbelievers are converted into life, empowered by the Holy Spirit, and more and more reflect the image of Christ. As they do, the image of God is again being spread across the earth. In this, God is glorified.
Eventually, this image will be so pervasive in the earth that the glory of the knowledge of the Lord will fill the earth as the waters cover the seas just as it says in Habakkuk 2:14.

Yes, the bible is a very interesting book.
Hopefully PenEd will start the Genesis discussion like I recommended. Outside of Salvation, that's a very enlightening subject. Every time I get on that sub

Is this how you are able to claim sinless perfection? Selective amnesia?

Cmon guy, post 337

Again...if you want to engage me in another discussion...engage me on that discussion thread.
And I will be notified and will respond on to that site.

 

[Goliath]

Yes, the bible is a very interesting book.
Hopefully PenEd will start the Genesis discussion like I recommended. Outside of Salvation, that's a very enlightening subject. Every time I get on that sub

Again...if you want to engage me in another discussion...engage me on that discussion thread.
And I will be notified and will respond on to that site.

Sorry Cameron...got your post mixed up with PenEd.

 

[PennEd]

Yes, the bible is a very interesting book.
Hopefully PenEd will start the Genesis discussion like I recommended. Outside of Salvation, that's a very enlightening subject. Every time I get on that sub

Again...if you want to engage me in another discussion...engage me on that discussion thread.
And I will be notified and will respond on to that site.

Lol!

 

[Goliath]

Sorry Cameron...got your post mixed up with PenEd.

Will talk with you more tomorrow

 

[Goliath]

Lol!

Glad you're of good humor.
Since you probably won't start a discussion since it has already been hatched, How do I get to post#337?

 

[PennEd]

How do I get to post#337?

Well, you are currently on post 349, so go back to post 337. I think it's only 1 or 2 pages back.

 

[ThyKingdomComeSoon]

So a letter of the law will not pass from the law until all is fulfilled.

Jesus came to fulfill the law.

So the question reduces to whether or not Jesus fulfilled the law?

If Jesus fulfilled the law, then the law has passed.

If Jesus did not fulfill the law, then the law still stands.

Hello inquisitor,

I looked at the definition of FULFILL it has many different applications;
source:https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fulfill
1- to put into effect : execute
He fulfilled his pledge to cut taxes.
2- to meet the requirements of (a business order)
Their order for more TVs
3- to measure up to : satisfy
She hasn't yet fulfilled the requirements needed to graduate.
4- to bring to an end
she came to install herself and fulfill her time at the house.

Jesus who was teaching the commandments in the temple and to all who would hear was very clear about the commandments would never pass. Therefore the meaning cannot be to bring to an end. but must be to meet the requirements of.

I can elaborate using scriptures if you need.

Blessings

 

[Goliath]

Well, you are currently on post 349, so go back to post 337. I think it's only 1 or 2 pages back.

Oh, post 337, on this thread,...now I understand. That's where I said...."If you hate me, just say so...don't stone me with your insults." Which was an observation from your Backbiting, in post #315
Where you came out of the blue, and said this to someone....
"I'm not sure this person is worth the effort."
"He has a very warped view of Scripture right from the beginning."
"He believes the nonsense that God created....etc.
Not exactly complementary, now is it!

Do you really think what I said was offensive?
Tell me how you would respond to a Backbiter?

 

[PennEd]

Oh, post 337, on this thread,...now I understand. That's where I said...."If you hate me, just say so...don't stone me with your insults." Which was an observation from your Backbiting, in post #315
Where you came out of the blue, and said this to someone....
"I'm not sure this person is worth the effort."
"He has a very warped view of Scripture right from the beginning."
"He believes the nonsense that God created....etc.
Not exactly complementary, now is it!

Do you really think what I said was offensive?
Tell me how you would respond to a Backbiter?

Yup.

All factual points.

But you insinuated that somehow those points equated to hatred, there by libeling me.

And lying.

And you know what happens to all sinless perfection people that lie.

See Rev 21

 

[Inquisitor]

Hello inquisitor,

I looked at the definition of FULFILL it has many different applications;
source:https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fulfill
1- to put into effect : execute
He fulfilled his pledge to cut taxes.
2- to meet the requirements of (a business order)
Their order for more TVs
3- to measure up to : satisfy
She hasn't yet fulfilled the requirements needed to graduate.
4- to bring to an end
she came to install herself and fulfill her time at the house.

Jesus who was teaching the commandments in the temple and to all who would hear was very clear about the commandments would never pass. Therefore the meaning cannot be to bring to an end. but must be to meet the requirements of.

I can elaborate using scriptures if you need.

Blessings

You are inferring that Jesus was talking about the commandments.

Jesus did not mention the commandments, Jesus said 'one letter of the law'.

So a letter of the law will not pass from the law until all is fulfilled.

This is an important difference.

We need to know if one letter of the law has passed?

If so, then the law itself (10 words) have also passed.

 

[TMS]

You are inferring that Jesus was talking about the commandments.

Jesus did not mention the commandments, Jesus said 'one letter of the law'.

So a letter of the law will not pass from the law until all is fulfilled.

This is an important difference.

We need to know if one letter of the law has passed?

If so, then the law itself (10 words) have also passed.

Like the word fulfilled... Law has many meanings.

It can mean a specific rule
...the whole or all of the writtings of Moses,
It can be the Ten commandments.
And it could be the health laws or cirimonial laws.

There were many sets of laws and different commandments.

Lets be logical....

Which laws have past away?
Which laws have not past away?

You might disagree but murder is still a sin and the law that condemns taking Gods names in vain is still valid today.
Circumcision isn't required today and yearly sacrifices in the temple isn't a law we need to obey today.

So when Jesus said in Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
It isn't all the laws in the old Testament, some have passed and some haven't.

Jesus wasn't refering to the laws that have passed away because heaven and Earth are still here...
I find that the only law that fits is the law of liberty. The royal law, or the ten commandments which are summed up in loving God and loving our neighbour.

Which laws do you think Jesus was refering to?

 

[TMS]

You are inferring that Jesus was talking about the commandments.

Jesus did not mention the commandments, Jesus said 'one letter of the law'.

So a letter of the law will not pass from the law until all is fulfilled.

This is an important difference.

We need to know if one letter of the law has passed?

If so, then the law itself (10 words) have also passed.

"The law"
Jas 2:10-12 KJV 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

 

[Goliath]

Yup.

All factual points.

But you insinuated that somehow those points equated to hatred, there by libeling me.

And lying.

And you know what happens to all sinless perfection people that lie.

See Rev 21

And what you said about me, wasn't libelous?
Do you not see how your viewpoint, of what you said about me, could have caused me to make that...insinuation?
When someone insults you, is it because they Love you, or because they don't like you?
And Thats why I assumed you hated me.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Lol!!

One of the last resorts. Try and elicit some sort of sympathy by erecting a strawman like "If you hate me".


That's a weak sauce tactic dude. Nothing I said would even remotely suggest I "hate" you.


Really, a type of lie, which ya know, is a SIN!

So much for being sinless.

Ecclesiastes 7:20
For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

 

[Goliath]

I appreciate you taking the time to answer.

The best part about John 14 to me isn't obedience, as important as that is. The best part is when the Father and Jesus come and pitch their tent and tabernacle with us. Unfortunately, most people think of eternal life as some future event and salvation a thing to be endured. In fact, eternal life is a present reality and according to John 17:3 consists of knowing God the Father and Jesus. This knowing isn't merely a fact gathering expedition, but an ongoing interaction that of the life of Christ lived out in us. This is the significance of John 15 and the teaching of the vine and the branches.
By this continual interaction of the life of Jesus applied to us by the Holy Spirit, we manifest the divine nature. The fruit that grows is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, etc. Thus, the image of God that Adam and Eve were supposed to multiply and fill the earth with, and which was marred by sin, is being restored in man and spread through the great commission.
As the gospel is shared, unbelievers are converted into life, empowered by the Holy Spirit, and more and more reflect the image of Christ. As they do, the image of God is again being spread across the earth. In this, God is glorified.
Eventually, this image will be so pervasive in the earth that the glory of the knowledge of the Lord will fill the earth as the waters cover the seas just as it says in Habakkuk 2:14.

One of my students asked me once, If I believed that God would condemn people who follow a false doctrine. I told him I feared the same thing, once, because I knew many of these folks lived as Jesus prescribed in his Gospel..24/7/365 days of the year. And it also tore at my heart, to think that God would not save them.

I told him that there are two kinds of people in church. There are those who live their lives in obedience to Jesus, no matter what they are taught about, "Works" and "Grace". And there are those who do not live their lives in obedience to Jesus, and live their lives according to the false doctrines..which say God will save you whether you make Jesus, 'Lord or not.
I see, you,.... and some of the other folks here on ChristianChat, as 24/7/ 365 followers of Jesus Christ. You do not simply call Jesus Lord..,you have made him Lord!
I can see it in their hearts.

These folks who believe in these false doctrines, yet live in obedience to Jesus Christ, I believe they will be saved. But those who live a life disobedient to God, using the Lords sacrifice as a license to sin, they will be condemned. Why do I believe this?
(2 Thessalonians 1:7-9)
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

 

[Needevidence]

Enlighten us....where did Cains wife came from?

The Bible does imply that there were others living - Gen4:16 Then Cain went out from the presence of the LORD and dwelt in the land of Nod on the east of Eden. 17 And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch. ......