Calvin did not invent the doctrines of grace

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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What is clear is that you are making mans faith, act of believing a condition man performs
in order to be recompensed with everlasting life, that's a work/law based Salvation.

Believing in Christ is the Work of God, God the Holy Spirit even !

Hebrews 11:6
:)
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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I'm still waiting on a Calvinist to answer concerning the book of Jonah...
Rationally, one doesn't preclude the other. It was God who sent Jonah. Since faith only comes by hearing God's word, sending a messenger would be necessary.
It does show, however, that heaven will be populated by inhabitants from every nation, tribe, kindred, and tongue.
I'm not a Calvinist, but just using reason shows your argument falls short in this example.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Rationally, one doesn't preclude the other. It was God who sent Jonah. Since faith
only comes by hearing God's word, sending a messenger would be necessary.
It does show, however, that heaven will be populated by inhabitants from every nation, tribe, kindred, and tongue.
I'm not a Calvinist, but just using reason shows your argument falls short in this example.

From Acts 17:26-28
:)
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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I'm still waiting on a Calvinist to answer concerning the book of Jonah...
Do you actually expect someone to go through the book of Jonah with you explaining all of its verses?
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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Yes, faith comes by hearing the word of God. Faith does not come from being a part of some elect group.
And to hear spiritually is a gift of salvation.

[Jhn 8:37, 43 KJV]
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. ...
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Sure. But how can they hear without a preacher?
Romans 10:13 “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” 14 How then can they call
on the One in whom they have not believed? And how can they believe in the One of whom they have
not heard? And how can they hear without someone to preach? 15 And how can they preach unless
they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”
.:)
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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Romans 10:13 “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” 14 How then can they call
on the One in whom they have not believed? And how can they believe in the One of whom they have
not heard? And how can they hear without someone to preach? 15 And how can they preach unless
they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”
.:)
So "nice feet" is a compliment for preachers? I wonder why we don't here it more often.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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rogerg

Eternal life brings faith, faith does not bring eternal life. If eternal life is the gift, then everything brought from it, must also be of the gift: It is all a gift of/from God; nothing for it is from man.
I like how that is stated. Eternal life is definitely the Gift of God Rom 6:23

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

And Christ gives it to as many as the Father has given Him Jn 17:2-3

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

So knowing God and Jesus Christ is life eternal, this knowledge I believe is Faith or akin to it, John uses it with pisteuō here Jn 6:69

And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

So Christ gives as a Gift Eternal Life and the Knowledge of it, the persuasion of it.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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Yes, faith comes by hearing the word of God. Faith does not come from being a part of some elect group.
Faith is given only to a elect group, the Elect, so its also called the Faith of Gods Elect Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Rationally, one doesn't preclude the other. It was God who sent Jonah. Since faith only comes by hearing God's word, sending a messenger would be necessary.
It does show, however, that heaven will be populated by inhabitants from every nation, tribe, kindred, and tongue.
I'm not a Calvinist, but just using reason shows your argument falls short in this example.
Jonah preached the word of God, "Yet forty days and Nineveh shall be overthrown." The people of Nineveh believed God. There are two options:

1. God lied
2. God changed his mind

God responded based on Nineveh's response to his word. That's how God works.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Faith is given only to a elect group, the Elect, so its also called the Faith of Gods Elect Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
The elect in verse 1 is Jesus Christ, God's elect. A comparable verse is Galatians 2:16.

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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Jonah preached the word of God, "Yet forty days and Nineveh shall be overthrown." The people of Nineveh believed God. There are two options:

1. God lied
2. God changed his mind

God responded based on Nineveh's response to his word. That's how God works.
For God to change His mind would mean He didn't consider an outcome beforehand. That would mean He isn't omnipotent.
When the Bible speaks of God in human terms it is to aid human understanding. It is always God's plan to forgive all who respond in repentance. When it speaks of God repenting, it merely means He didn't bring judgment.
God can neither lie or He wouldn't be holy or unchanging.
Both choices you gave are impossible for God. It's a false choice because you limit God as though He is a man.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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The elect in verse 1 is Jesus Christ, God's elect. A comparable verse is Galatians 2:16.

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Jesus Christ is included, because He is the Head of His Body the Church, so if the Head is Elect, so is His Body, Members. They are His Seed Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

So though you did it ignorantly, by admitting Christ is Gods Elect, you admit all His Chosen seed in Him are Gods Elect, and Faith is communicated to the seed only