Zionism among the Evangelicals is contradicted by Scripture
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Locoponydirtman
Guest
I havent followed your convo with anyone else. So i cant speak to the problem.
Nah, just par for the course at CC. You don't even have to try to make enemies, they find you. If I made a long lasting friend here at CC in all the years I have been here I'd be shocked. And yet we believe we're going to heaven to spend eternity together. smh
You'd have to ignore half the Bible to believe replacement theology. It's been renamed and they try to repackage it but it's just the same old heresy.
Oh, I don't subscribe to replacement theology. Gentile believers have been grafted into the cultivated olive tree; they haven't replaced the tree.
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Locoponydirtman
Guest
I dont have but 1 friend in life, so i have no hopes of befriending anyone here.
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Locoponydirtman
Guest
Right there is one tree some limbs have been cut off others have been grafted on. Today we call that tree the church.Oh, I don't subscribe to replacement theology. Gentile believers have been grafted into the cultivated olive tree; they haven't replaced the tree.
Replacement Theology is also known as Supersessionism and Fulfillment Theology. No matter the name, it is a dangerous and false doctrine. So much so that it was denounced by both the Protestant and Catholic churches after the Holocaust.
There are many beliefs that make up Replacement Theology but the three main premises are:
Jews are no longer God’s chosen people, the Church has replaced them.
After Pentecost, whenever the NT mentions “Israel” it’s actually referring to the Church. Therefore, the Church is Spiritual Israel and the “Jews” are Gentile believers who are “inner Jews.”
The Mosaic Covenant was replaced by the New Covenant and the Abrahamic Covenant completely abolished. Therefore, the New Covenant through Jesus supersedes (thus, Supersessionism) or replaces the old covenant which was made exclusively with the Jews.
Replacement Theology has:
Misinterpreted God as a fickle God who breaks His own promises and backtracks on what He has established.
It paints God as having made an everlasting covenant (Genesis 17:7-14 & Exodus 19-24) with Abraham and Moses only to break them in the New Testament, despite promising that His Word would come to pass (Isaiah 40:8). If God is the same yesterday, today, and forever (Hebrews 13:8) then why would He change His mind about Israel?
Created anti-semitism
It’s easy to see how replacement theology has caused anti-semitism. It was in the minds of people long before Martin Luther published his hateful proclamations against Jews which influenced Nazi philosophy.
Some of the comments of the church fathers show why this philosophy is so dangerous.
Hippolytus of Rome said that the Jews had been darkened in the eyes of their souls, “with a darkness utter and everlasting.” And declared that Jews were destined to be, “slaves to the nations, not for four hundred years as in Egypt, nor seventy as in Babylon, but always.”
John Chrysostom said, “Jews are inveterate murderers possessed by the Devil. Their debauchery and drunkenness gives them the manners of a pig… This is why I hate the Jews.”
Ambrose of Milan said, “The Jews are the most worthless of all men. They are lecherous, greedy, rapacious. They are perfidious murderers of Christ. They worship the Devil. Their religion is a sickness. The Jews are the odious assassins of Christ, and for killing God there is no expiation possible, no indulgence or pardon. Christians may never cease vengeance, and the Jew must live in servitude forever. God always hated the Jews. It is essential that all Christians hate them.”
"Epistle of Barnabas" Chapter 4vs 6-7 (between 130A.D. and 138 A.D.)
Take heed to yourselves and be not like some piling up you sins and saying that the covenant is theirs as well as ours. It is ours, but they lost it completely just after Moses received it.
Justin Martyr- The custom of circumcising the flesh, handed down from Abraham, was given to you as a distinguishing mark...
The purpose of this was that you and only you might suffer the afflictions that are now justly yours; that only your land be desolated, and you cities ruined by fire, that the fruits of you land be eaten by strangers before your very eyes; that not one of you be permitted to enter your city of Jerusalem
Peter the Venerable- Truly I doubt whether a Jew can be really human… I lead out from its den a monstrous animal, and show it as a laughing stock in the amphitheater of the world, in the sight of all the people. I bring thee forward, thou Jew, thou brute beast, in the sight of all men.
John Calvin - Their [the Jews] rotten and unbending stiffneckedness deserves that they be oppressed unendingly and without measure or end and that they die in their misery without the pity of anyone.
Martin Luther- First, their synagogues should be set on fire, and whatever does not burn up should be covered or spread over with dirt so that no one may ever be able to see a cinder or stone of it. And this ought to be done for the honor of God and of Christianity in order that God may see that we are Christians, and that we have not wittingly tolerated or approved of such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of His Son and His Christians.
Secondly, their homes should likewise be broken down and destroyed. For they perpetrate the same things there that they do in their synagogues.
Thirdly, they should be deprived of their prayer-books and Talmuds in which such idolatry, lies, cursing, and blasphemy are taught.
Fourthly, their rabbis must be forbidden under threat of death to teach any more...
Fifthly, passport and traveling privileges should be absolutely forbidden to the Jews. For they have no business in the rural districts since they are not nobles, nor officials, nor merchants, nor the like. Let them stay at home..
You ought not, you cannot protect them, unless in the eyes of God you want to share all their abomination..
Caused Jews to loath Christianity
Because of the atrocious sentiments and statements against the Jews, it has made them reject the Gospel and caused difficulties with Jewish evangelism.
So you ask me why I have always stood here or in person against Replacement Theology. THIS is the reason! This is where the doctrine comes from. Do these comments seem Christlike to you??!! I will ALWAYS stand against Replacement Theology. Maybe someone will join me now they see it's roots which led all the way to the Holocaust.
When we read we see the word saint or saints in the Old and New Testaments . Most of us believe in the triune God. He says He is the same yesterday today and for ever. We believers, old or new are His saints . One body one triune God We are the family of God Joint heirs
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
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Locoponydirtman
Guest
And Paul wrote, (and it is a matter of scripture) that they should castrate themselves. And in the book of Revelation, Jesus calls them a synogogue of satan.
I think its easy to stand hundreds of years later and take their polemics out of the context of when they were written. If you are going to read their statements you should also study the context. I know for sure that Luther had invested much time attempting to witness to the jews, to find that they not only continued rejected Christ but that they began publicly attempting to convert Christians to Talmudism.
The Talmud is not the Torah but extra books written in Babylon, and is indeed lies and idolatries.
The Biblical fact remains there is one tree. Some branches are broken off and other branches are grafted on. Still the same tree, that tree is the tree of faith, and those branches grafted in are the adopted sons to Abraham, and the branches not broken off are sons of Abraham. One tree, one faith, one God, one baptism, one ecclecia or church. Heritage does not matter and never has. It has always been about faith. Think of the rebellion of Corah, and think of Ruth, think of those who were killed in desert by Moses and Aaron by the sword for worshipping an idol, and then think on Joshua son of none. Think of the entire generation turned back into the wilderness untill they all died, and then think if Rahab. It is the same today. Those who have faith and those in rebellion.
Jesus is the promised seed of Abraham, and all of the earth is his inheritance.
First I didn't mean to direct this post at you. I was going to answer the comment on friends post. This was suppose to go to the OP. But I got in a hurry on my way out the door. I know that Luther tried to convert them, in his own power. Had he read Romans 11 he might have understood why he wasn't seeing mass conversions. There have been missionaries who have been in far away lands for years and only saw a small amount of converts. Do you think the comments of some of the church fathers would lend themselves to changing a Jewish persons mind who had not heard the Gospel? That their churches should be burned, they shouldn't be allowed to travel?! What did Jesus say when James and John asked if they should call down fire from heaven? If Jesus didn't do think we should?
Everlasting means what it says, or God is a liar. Romans 11 says we are grafted in and we should not brag on that fact because we too could be removed. It ends with God saying not only was He able to restore them, not us, them but that He would saying all Israel will be saved. That is not the church. The church does not replace the Jews.
As far as friends my husband says "they're over rated" and that POV comes from a lifetime of helping people who then turn around and misuse you in spite of your help. Unfortunately too many have claimed to be Christians. How sad.[/QUOTE]
Oh, I don't subscribe to replacement theology. Gentile believers have been grafted into the cultivated olive tree; they haven't replaced the tree.
I'm glad you don't. Apparently even Christians can't be friends if they disagree on this subject. Unreal.
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Locoponydirtman
Guest
Well, it seems to you and Beckie they are. In fact they are to be ignored entirely.
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Locoponydirtman
Guest
You have to take into accound what os written in Romans 9 as well. So when Paul writes all of Israel in chapter 11 he has already explained what that means in chapter 9.