Zionism among the Evangelicals is contradicted by Scripture

[Beckie]

You're gonna want to knock me in the head. But I'm going back to the broken record of " the " was unconditional and everlasting. Some of the covenants were conditional, some weren't correct?

Most folks dont read the posted scriptures .please look at the unlined parts and explain how they are not conditions?

IF the Abrahamic Covenant is/was everlasting. how come they dont have it now?

It's already been fixed. I have a really hard job understanding how people don't understand how covenants were made and why the Abrahamic Covenant was unconditional. Some were conditional, some were not. You are trusting God will keep His covenant to you, but not the Jews. What makes you think He will be faithful to you, if He breaks His covenants. Everyone who disagrees with what I am saying, go read up on OT covenants. Read which were conditional and which were not. Then go back and read the Abrahamic covenant and explain how it was conditional. You can't.

Show the Scriptures about the Abrahamiac Covenant being unconditioinal. Posting again the Scriptures saying it was conditional .
God did not break that covenant they did.

Gen 17:9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
Gen 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
Gen 17:12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the
house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
Gen 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
Gen 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.
Gen 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

Gen 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Lev 26:40 If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;
Lev 26:41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:

Deu 7:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers:

 

[Locoponydirtman]

I gotts to? Yeah, the printing was so small I had to enlarge it. I read an article the other day talking about how the Jews will return once in disobedience and then with a new heart. Let me see if I can find it, it had Scripture refs. I believe it may have had the point of the dry bones coming together as proof if I recall.

Gotts was a half asleep typo. I'm not even sure what I meant.
My only contention is that the children of Abraham are and always have been according of faith. Abraham is the father of faith. That the promise is to Abraham by his faith and that only those who are of faith are his children. That flesh has nothing to do with it. That you amd I are children to Abraham by faith and this that promise is to us as well.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Gotts was a half asleep typo. I'm not even sure what I meant.
My only contention is that the children of Abraham are and always have been according of faith. Abraham is the father of faith. That the promise is to Abraham by his faith and that only those who are of faith are his children. That flesh has nothing to do with it. That you amd I are children to Abraham by faith and this that promise is to us as well.

Yeah, I've been doing landscaping with hubby this week , spread 30 bags of mulch on the lawn. I totally get the half asleep thing. Again, I don't disagree with that. Jews aren't saved just because they are Jewish. It's by faith, just like the rest of us.

 

[Beckie]

Yeah, I've been doing landscaping with hubby this week , spread 30 bags of mulch on the lawn. I totally get the half asleep thing. Again, I don't disagree with that. Jews aren't saved just because they are Jewish. It's by faith, just like the rest of us.

They are saved by the Blood of the Lamb ,not the Jewish blood in their veins , just like the rest of us.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

They are saved by the Blood of the Lamb ,not the Jewish blood in their veins , just like the rest of us.

Yep, that's what I just got done saying. They will come through Christ, same as we all have.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Most folks dont read the posted scriptures .please look at the unlined parts and explain how they are not conditions?

IF the Abrahamic Covenant is/was everlasting. how come they dont have it now?

Psalms 105, “He remembers His covenant forever, the word which He commanded, for a thousand generations, the covenant which He made with Abraham, and His oath to Isaac, and confirmed it to Jacob for a statute, to Israel as an everlasting covenant.”


Jer. 31
35 This is what the Lord says,he who appoints the sun to shine by day,
who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night,
who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar—
the Lord Almighty is his name:
36 “Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,”
declares the Lord,
“will Israel ever cease
being a nation before me.”


Gen.7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you.


Chr. 1 Chronicles 16:15–17 (NKJV)
15 Remember His covenant forever,
The word which He commanded, for a thousand generations,
16 The covenant which He made with Abraham,
And His oath to Isaac,
17 And confirmed it to Jacob for a statute,
To Israel for an everlasting covenant

Just the beginning of an answer here. Stick with me and I will add to it as I get the time. Hubby is on vacation this week.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Gotts was a half asleep typo. I'm not even sure what I meant.
My only contention is that the children of Abraham are and always have been according of faith. Abraham is the father of faith. That the promise is to Abraham by his faith and that only those who are of faith are his children. That flesh has nothing to do with it. That you amd I are children to Abraham by faith and this that promise is to us as well.

PS here I wasn't mocking your typo, I was trying to lighten the mood. This tends to be a heavy topic.

 

[Beckie]

Psalms 105, “He remembers His covenant forever, the word which He commanded, for a thousand generations, the covenant which He made with Abraham, and His oath to Isaac, and confirmed it to Jacob for a statute, to Israel as an everlasting covenant.”

Here is the condition from Psalms 105
Psa 105:45 That they might observe his statutes, and keep his laws. Praise ye the LORD.

Jer. 31
35 This is what the Lord says,he who appoints the sun to shine by day,
who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night,
who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar—
the Lord Almighty is his name:
36 “Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,”
declares the Lord,
“will Israel ever cease
being a nation before me.”

This is a prophecy of the New covenant
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Jer 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:

 

[Beckie]

Gen.7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you.

when we keep reading we see the conditions
Gen 17:2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
Gen 17:3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
Gen 17:4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
Gen 17:5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
Gen 17:6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Gen 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
Gen 17:9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
Gen 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
Gen 17:12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
Gen 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
Gen 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

 

[Beckie]

Chr. 1 Chronicles 16:15–17 (NKJV)
15 Remember His covenant forever,
The word which He commanded, for a thousand generations,
16 The covenant which He made with Abraham,
And His oath to Isaac,
17 And confirmed it to Jacob for a statute,
To Israel for an everlasting covenant

as we read on we find the conditions
1Ch 16:14 He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth.
1Ch 16:15 Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;
1Ch 16:16 Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac;
1Ch 16:17 And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,

 

[Beckie]

Having lived breathed shared etc dispensational teaching for around 35 years i was glad when the Scriptures opened to my heart.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

as we read on we find the conditions
1Ch 16:14 He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth.
1Ch 16:15 Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;
1Ch 16:16 Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac;
1Ch 16:17 And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,

Yes, but there are two covenants at work there. The Mosaic and the Abrahamic. One conditional, one unconditional and everlasting. Again, we go back to the covenants, which were conditional, which were unconditional?

 

[Beckie]

Yes, but there are two covenants at work there. The Mosaic and the Abrahamic. One conditional, one unconditional and everlasting. Again, we go back to the covenants, which were conditional, which were unconditional?

You believe they are as you say, so you tell me which are which.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

PS here I wasn't mocking your typo, I was trying to lighten the mood. This tends to be a heavy topic.

We are all good. I first assume the best of any Christian, even when we disagree on certain points.
I dont get offended. Thats for the weak.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Yeah, I've been doing landscaping with hubby this week , spread 30 bags of mulch on the lawn. I totally get the half asleep thing. Again, I don't disagree with that. Jews aren't saved just because they are Jewish. It's by faith, just like the rest of us.

Faith in Jesus.

 

[Beckie]

Yes, but there are two covenants at work there. The Mosaic and the Abrahamic. One conditional, one unconditional and everlasting. Again, we go back to the covenants, which were conditional, which were unconditional?

If we consider the Abrahamic covenant to be everlasting then they would have never lost the land etc. The conditions according to Scripture have been posted. If the covenant with Moses was everlasting then we would not have The Lamb of God on the Cross. It is clear the Ten Commandants are conditions. It is the New Covenant that is everlasting.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

If we consider the Abrahamic covenant to be everlasting then they would have never lost the land etc. The conditions according to Scripture have been posted. If the covenant with Moses was everlasting then we would not have The Lamb of God on the Cross. It is clear the Ten Commandants are conditions. It is the New Covenant that is everlasting.

They haven't lost the land, that is why 1948 is so important in prophecy. The Mosaic was conditional.

 

[Beckie]

They haven't lost the land, that is why 1948 is so important in prophecy. The Mosaic was conditional.

They did loose it how could it be everlasting. Israel to day is not the land God gave to Abraham. How can it be both everlasting and regained?





This is just an estimate i found on the net.. The system will not allow me to copy the url . I asked google
Images for map of the land god gave to abraham

When God made His covenant with Israel regarding the Promised Land, He originally promised them 300,000 square miles of land.

Here is the scripture that kinda goes wiht the above.

Gen 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:





8,630 sq. miles todays Israel

The total area of the State of Israel is 22,145 sq.km (8,630 sq. miles), of which 21,671 sq. km is land area.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

They did loose it how could it be everlasting. Israel to day is not the land God gave to Abraham. How can it be both everlasting and regained?

This is just an estimate i found on the net.. The system will not allow me to copy the url . I asked google
Images for map of the land god gave to abraham

Here is the scripture that kinda goes wiht the above.

Gen 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

8,630 sq. miles todays Israel

The total area of the State of Israel is 22,145 sq.km (8,630 sq. miles), of which 21,671 sq. km is land area.

I was able to add this picture in with no problems?

The picture came from this Bible Study:

-=<♥ God Made the Promises to Israel – God Himself Deeded the Land to Abraham; ♥>=-
-=<♥ it wasn’t a Mutual or a Conditional Covenant ♥>=-

​

Here are the pertaining Bible verses:

Genesis 12:1-3 - 1 The Lord had said to Abram, “Go from your country, your people and your father’s household to the land I will show you. 2 “I will make you into a great nation, and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. 3 I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

Genesis 15:18-21 - 18 On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram and said, “To your descendants I give this land, from the Wadi of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates— 19 the land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, 20 Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, 21 Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites.”

Genesis 12:7 The Lord appeared to Abram and said, “To your offspring I will give this land.” So he built an altar there to the Lord, who had appeared to him.

Genesis 17:8 The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.”

Deuteronomy 1:8 See, I have given you this land. Go in and take possession of the land the Lord swore he would give to your fathers—to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob—and to their descendants after them.”

Joshua 1:3 I will give you every place where you set your foot, as I promised Moses. 4 Your territory will extend from the desert to Lebanon, and from the great river, the Euphrates—all the Hittite country—to the Mediterranean Sea in the west.

The bible study also went on to say:

What is often overlooked is that it is God who will fulfill this promise because it was God who promised the nation of Israel. It was not a mutual covenant. God deeded the land. During the ceremony highlighted in Genesis 15:9–21, it was God who made the promises to Abraham. Remember Abraham was asleep.

-=<❤>=-

I think just because only a smaller portion of this land has been currently given to the Jews that some haters think God isn't keeping His promise - but this portion is only the beginning. God said that this will be an everlasting promise, so one can see that He will give the rest of the land in the future - perhaps during the Millennial age to come after the Jews will finally see that the Lord Jesus IS their long awaited Messiah in the last days.

Here's another link to the explanation of why not all the land has been given to the Jews yet:

Has Israel’s territory ever encompassed the promise in Joshua 1:4?​

It's a good read, but the last paragraph sums the explanation nicely and most importantly:

The Bible teaches that God will eventually fulfill the promise to give Israel full control over the Promised Land. Israel’s full territory will ultimately be ruled by the Messiah during the Millennium (Revelation 20:1–6). God’s promises, partly fulfilled throughout history, will have complete, literal, fulfillment prior to God’s creation of new heavens and a new earth (Revelation 21—22; cf. Psalm 72:8).

I hope this helps!

❧

 

[Beckie]

I think just because only a smaller portion of this land has been currently given to the Jews that some haters think God isn't keeping His promise - but this portion is only the beginning. God said that this will be an everlasting promise, so one can see that He will give the rest of the land in the future - perhaps during the Millennial age to come after the Jews will finally see that the Lord Jesus IS their long awaited Messiah in the last days.

Seem you are saying God only keeps part of His covenants.
The Scriptures showing the conditions God put on the Children of Israel have been posted. Yes everlasting if they obeyed they did not. They could not The Saviour had not yet come....

Remember God fulfilled His Covenant
Jos 21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.

I will quit bugging you for a while . Dont over work your self!