What Does It Mean That God Desires All People To Be Saved?
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I understand, and if I understand your view correctly, you believe that some won't be saved, and "won't" being a contraction of "will not," is dependent upon God's will (not) that they be saved, by 'limited' grace as much as 'limited' faith and 'limited' atonement, but there is also the belief that God leaves those that "will" not that option to fulfill that desire the God possesses that they be saved, by grace through faith. Two options from which we have to choose to believe.
We're going in circles.
It’s a fact that God DID act on His desire. If He didn’t, nobody could be saved.
I’m out, g’nite.
It’s a fact that God DID act on His desire. If He didn’t, nobody could be saved.
I’m out, g’nite.
And I think it's worth understanding that God sending Jesus was Him acting upon any desire. He sent His Son because He loves.
That's the problem...you think I'm saying something more. I'm not. I'm not relating this to salvation in any way. Believing that God acts out of love and not desire doesn't lend itself to anyone having to alter their perspective on salvation in any way. Because people on this site are so suspicious of other's motivations, and because people are so heavily invested in particular positions, they have difficulty answering simple questions.
Your assumptions are wrong about what I believe. I believe God desires all men to be saved. I don't believe in a limited faith. People either believe or they do not. God doesn't keep people from believing. And I do believe in a limited atonement, but not because God couldn't atone for everyone's sins. I believe it's limited because God is just and I don't see how a just God can both accept payment for someone's sins and require that they also pay for them.
My friend used to say, "sorry, not sorry," too.
anywho...
God desires that all are saved and is not willing for any to perish. I have brought this up before,
perhaps not in this thread? Him not being willing that any perish means none are chosen ahead
of time for destruction, and all have the ability to choose His way of salvation, and yet at the same
time, the natural man cannot act in accordance with gospel truth because it is foolishness to Him.
God takes/has taken it upon Himself to draw all men to Him. Does He act more on some than others?
He reveals Himself to those who diligently and sincerely seek Him, knowing none do. Paradoxes galore!
People do however seek truth, and Truth is embodied in the Person and work of Jesus Christ.
Acts 17:26 From one man He made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the
whole earth; and He determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their lands.
27 God intended (<- is that the same as desire? .) that they would seek Him and perhaps
reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. 28 ‘For in Him we
live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are His offspring.’
whole earth; and He determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their lands.
27 God intended (<- is that the same as desire? .
) that they would seek Him and perhapsreach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. 28 ‘For in Him we
live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are His offspring.’
I guess then it is just me voicing how I understand the view as one of limited opportunity to believe, albeit whether you hold the view or not I'm still having difficulty ascertaining. Not that whatever view you hold is really anyone other than your own's business, seeing that we are to work out our own salvation and I can't know definitively that of even the most apparent.
The scripture is correct, it's misapplied in my opinion. It's good to support missionaries. Do you make every dollar available to them you possibly can? Is that sin?
It's good to help people in need? Do you stop to help every person on the side of the road? Is that sin?
There are great injustices in this world that take place. Is God sinning by not correcting them?
It's good to help people in need? Do you stop to help every person on the side of the road? Is that sin?
There are great injustices in this world that take place. Is God sinning by not correcting them?
Regarding the verse James 4:17,, my failure and all the rest of mankind's failure to do the good we know we should do is our sin... And we need the covering of the Atonement of The LORD Jesus for all our failures to do good.. Not many preachers touch on this topic.. They mostly talk about evil sins,, how people should resist the temptations to do evil.. But The scriptures make it clear failure to do the good things we know we should do is for us Sin..
Not sure why you have gone down the personal convicting route with me.. We are talking about God and His will.. His doings.. His works..
The injustices of this world are the work of human beings and the suffering caused by such is again upon human beings.. God is Longsuffering toward us not willing that any should perish but all should come to repentance for their injustices.. The response from God sometimes comes in our times and sometimes later at the final judgement.. Either way the LORD will do whats right and good.. Justice delayed is not justice defeated or removed..
Not sure why you have gone down the personal convicting route with me.. We are talking about God and His will.. His doings.. His works..
The injustices of this world are the work of human beings and the suffering caused by such is again upon human beings.. God is Longsuffering toward us not willing that any should perish but all should come to repentance for their injustices.. The response from God sometimes comes in our times and sometimes later at the final judgement.. Either way the LORD will do whats right and good.. Justice delayed is not justice defeated or removed..
My apologies. I wasn't trying to make it personal. Neither do I believe not doing something is sin necessarily. Goodness isn't the only consideration when acting or not acting.
The example of injustice wasn't whether it will be dealt with eventually, but, rather, that it is allowed. God could prevent it and yet doesn't. You suggested that God must do good knowing it to be good or be guilty of sin. But clearly God cannot sin and He doesn't disallow injustice. So I thought the particular verse was misapplied.
Again, my apologies for communicating in a manner that seemed judgemental.
The example of injustice wasn't whether it will be dealt with eventually, but, rather, that it is allowed. God could prevent it and yet doesn't. You suggested that God must do good knowing it to be good or be guilty of sin. But clearly God cannot sin and He doesn't disallow injustice. So I thought the particular verse was misapplied.
Again, my apologies for communicating in a manner that seemed judgemental.
Indeed. But do not forget the context.
The entire world (as far as Paul and the Church was concerned) was under the iron-fisted rule of a military dictatorship. The citizenry had little choice as far as leadership is concerned.
Nowadays, we have what is known as "representative government". Which means that you KICK THE BUMS OUT whenever they get out line. Better yet, run for office yourself! And never forget that the rule of law governs men, NOT MEN.
Far too many Christians think that they need to live their lives as lap dogs to tyranny and criminality (see the present administration).
This is not the case.....at all. Today, rights and freedoms are GUARANTEED, and only need to be actualized.
The entire world (as far as Paul and the Church was concerned) was under the iron-fisted rule of a military dictatorship. The citizenry had little choice as far as leadership is concerned.
Nowadays, we have what is known as "representative government". Which means that you KICK THE BUMS OUT whenever they get out line. Better yet, run for office yourself! And never forget that the rule of law governs men, NOT MEN.
Far too many Christians think that they need to live their lives as lap dogs to tyranny and criminality (see the present administration).
This is not the case.....at all. Today, rights and freedoms are GUARANTEED, and only need to be actualized.
Here is the text:
1 Timothy 2:3-5
American Standard Version
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 who would have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus,
First and foremost there is a definitive in verse 4 that must not be ignored, that definitive is "all men".
Not "some men"
Not the "chosen men"
Not the "elected men"
Not the "predestined men"
but "all men".
There are no men excluded from His desire to be saved.
This is why "all men" are given the gift of hearing from God.
It is the will of the hearer to accept or reject His message. Not the preordained prodding of God.
1 Timothy 2:3-5
American Standard Version
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 who would have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus,
First and foremost there is a definitive in verse 4 that must not be ignored, that definitive is "all men".
Not "some men"
Not the "chosen men"
Not the "elected men"
Not the "predestined men"
but "all men".
There are no men excluded from His desire to be saved.
This is why "all men" are given the gift of hearing from God.
It is the will of the hearer to accept or reject His message. Not the preordained prodding of God.
