Calvin did not invent the doctrines of grace
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No, the person DOES NOT CAUSE THE TURNINTG. God causes the turning AND removes the veil. Either you didn't understand or haven't been reading the replies.
That is not what the verse says - you're fudging "the heart of the reader" isn't within the verse - you've altered it. Shame on you!
I posted numerous translations that do not include your addition. It is God alone who turns His chosen to Jesus. Man of himself
will not/can not do that. Read this verse. I haven't altered it:
[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
That is not what the verse says - you're fudging "the heart of the reader" isn't within the verse - you've altered it. Shame on you!
I posted numerous translations that do not include your addition. It is God alone who turns His chosen to Jesus. Man of himself
will not/can not do that. Read this verse. I haven't altered it:
[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
[Phl 2:13 KJV] 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.
I argue because I'm afraid that someone might actually believe the trash you forth, so it is my duty, whether they accept it or not, to provide correction/contrast to you. You would have one's works be the core of salvation instead of by God and His grace alone.
I argue because I'm afraid that someone might actually believe the trash you forth, so it is my duty, whether they accept it or not, to provide correction/contrast to you. You would have one's works be the core of salvation instead of by God and His grace alone.
Your interpretation of 2 Col 3:16 is exactly that, as you make turning the requirement of the person to do, instead of God.
Do you not even realize the implications of what you're posting?
It is Christ's faith. The "good" is to trust in Christ alone as Saviour, not in ourselves, otherwise, we sin.
Yeah, well, you were supposed to compare the spiritual with the spiritual, which you don't do, and which is your core problem. I did include several verses that confirm what I said. Here is one again.
[1Jo 3:9 KJV] 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Those are the Bible's words. If someone has been born-again, in terms of salvation, they do not sin.
To sin is to not have true faith in alone Christ as Saviour which is remedied if/when saved by God - when He places
His Chosen under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus - His work, not ours.
Christ is the advocate for all of the elect with the Father. Until becoming saved/born-again, they remain under
the law of sin and death yet He is still their advocate because they will eventually become saved.
Not all of the elect are saved at the same time, nevertheless, eventually, they will become saved. The "if" pertains to those of the elect
who have not yet been but will be.
In terms of salvation, yes, those born-again do not sin because to sin is not to be covered under/by Christ. and that pertains to all the saved/born again. And, it is not of themselves, it is the work of God. So, you either don't understand or recognize that verse as being God's, and have chosen to override His authority with your own.
To walk after the flesh, is to trust in the works of the flesh (our own works), for salvation. And no, after becoming born
again, neither I, nor anyone who has been born-again, so trust.
To sin is to not be under Christ but under works. Those saved/born again will not/cannot be moved from Christ because it is God who has made Himself the guarantor of such. It is not by man.
[1Pe 1:5 KJV] 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
[Phl 1:6 KJV] 6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
To ask that question means that either you didn't read or don't understand that verse (or both I guess). As I said above, God has made Himself the guarantor. It is NOT up to man.
If you are saying that you are not speaking about salvation, then that must mean you agree with me. So, if you are not speaking
of salvation, then we have nothing left to discuss, because everything else is a byproduct of, and results from, being saved/born again.
Does that mean those saved live perfect lives? No. But neither does it affect their salvation. If someone is not saved, then the rest pales into insignificance.
Maybe in terms of salvation you don't understand what sinning is. If sinning is of man's actions, and to sin
denies someone salvation, then our salvation is dependent upon us and not Christ. Can you possibly believe that is correct?
Do you not even realize the implications of what you're posting?
It is Christ's faith. The "good" is to trust in Christ alone as Saviour, not in ourselves, otherwise, we sin.
Yeah, well, you were supposed to compare the spiritual with the spiritual, which you don't do, and which is your core problem. I did include several verses that confirm what I said. Here is one again.
[1Jo 3:9 KJV] 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Those are the Bible's words. If someone has been born-again, in terms of salvation, they do not sin.
To sin is to not have true faith in alone Christ as Saviour which is remedied if/when saved by God - when He places
His Chosen under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus - His work, not ours.
Christ is the advocate for all of the elect with the Father. Until becoming saved/born-again, they remain under
the law of sin and death yet He is still their advocate because they will eventually become saved.
Not all of the elect are saved at the same time, nevertheless, eventually, they will become saved. The "if" pertains to those of the elect
who have not yet been but will be.
In terms of salvation, yes, those born-again do not sin because to sin is not to be covered under/by Christ. and that pertains to all the saved/born again. And, it is not of themselves, it is the work of God. So, you either don't understand or recognize that verse as being God's, and have chosen to override His authority with your own.
To walk after the flesh, is to trust in the works of the flesh (our own works), for salvation. And no, after becoming born
again, neither I, nor anyone who has been born-again, so trust.
To sin is to not be under Christ but under works. Those saved/born again will not/cannot be moved from Christ because it is God who has made Himself the guarantor of such. It is not by man.
[1Pe 1:5 KJV] 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
[Phl 1:6 KJV] 6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
To ask that question means that either you didn't read or don't understand that verse (or both I guess). As I said above, God has made Himself the guarantor. It is NOT up to man.
If you are saying that you are not speaking about salvation, then that must mean you agree with me. So, if you are not speaking
of salvation, then we have nothing left to discuss, because everything else is a byproduct of, and results from, being saved/born again.
Does that mean those saved live perfect lives? No. But neither does it affect their salvation. If someone is not saved, then the rest pales into insignificance.
Maybe in terms of salvation you don't understand what sinning is. If sinning is of man's actions, and to sin
denies someone salvation, then our salvation is dependent upon us and not Christ. Can you possibly believe that is correct?
No problem, I enjoy our discussions. Anyway, I believe that to walk in the flesh means to trust in the flesh (the works of man) for salvation. I do not believe it pertains to things we may do that are immoral or improper. God does not like any
Christian to behave in ways not God glorifying, but neither will that affect one's salvation. However, for the true Christian,
God most definitely provides correction to them in ways that are most unpleasant, and He keeps increasing the unpleasantness until
we stop. Having undergone that process several times, I can attest that God knows precisely what we don't like - even better
than we do - and goes right to it like a heat seeking missile and His correction can last for quite a long time. It is much, much better
to avoid it in the first place. We can know when we are about to undertake something God doesn't like because a voice in our
inner mind screams "STOP" before we do it. Should we ignore that warning, we will experience a very interesting period of time.
But again, that does not affect salvation because salvation is by Christ, not us. As an example, look at king David.
Christian to behave in ways not God glorifying, but neither will that affect one's salvation. However, for the true Christian,
God most definitely provides correction to them in ways that are most unpleasant, and He keeps increasing the unpleasantness until
we stop. Having undergone that process several times, I can attest that God knows precisely what we don't like - even better
than we do - and goes right to it like a heat seeking missile and His correction can last for quite a long time. It is much, much better
to avoid it in the first place. We can know when we are about to undertake something God doesn't like because a voice in our
inner mind screams "STOP" before we do it. Should we ignore that warning, we will experience a very interesting period of time.
But again, that does not affect salvation because salvation is by Christ, not us. As an example, look at king David.
Yeah, but that is in being tempted/drawn away to trust in works for salvation and not in Christ. It is not the foibles and mistakes of man in everyday life. Not that they are good to do, but neither do they affect one's salvation. We are saved by what Christ had accomplished on our behalf; it is not ourselves. See my reply to ForestGreenCook above (#786).
Salvation alone is what is significant. God will lead us to, and will correct us, should we stray away from that which He desires from us.
That is not to say it is okay to do what is not pleasing to Him - in fact, very much to the contrary of that - but neither does it affect one's salvation.
Salvation alone is what is significant. God will lead us to, and will correct us, should we stray away from that which He desires from us.
That is not to say it is okay to do what is not pleasing to Him - in fact, very much to the contrary of that - but neither does it affect one's salvation.
John 12:31-32
[Jhn 6:37-39 KJV]
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
No problem. I think we may have discussed this before, but My understanding of Rom 10:1 - 3 is that they are of the elect but have not yet born-again. For Acts 2:37, I believe they had just become born-again and that is why they were "pricked in their heart". We can know they had become born-again because we are told that "they that gladly received the word", which will only happen
to those born again. It additionally tells us that there were others there who did not gladly receive the word, demonstrating
they did not yet become born-again, and possibly, never would because they were not of the elect.
to those born again. It additionally tells us that there were others there who did not gladly receive the word, demonstrating
they did not yet become born-again, and possibly, never would because they were not of the elect.
Philippians 2:13 does not change the fact that the verb in 2 Cor 3:16 is active, not passive as you continue to insist.
Explaining to you that you are manipulating Scripture by changing an active verb to passive is not "trash".
What is "trash" is your manipulation of Scripture in changing the active verb to the passive.
"your duty" is to read Scripture as is without changing the active verb to the passive.
When you change Scripture, you no longer have Scripture.
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Explaining to you that you are manipulating Scripture by changing an active verb to passive is not "trash".
What is "trash" is your manipulation of Scripture in changing the active verb to the passive.
"your duty" is to read Scripture as is without changing the active verb to the passive.
When you change Scripture, you no longer have Scripture.
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Do you think I'm just making up the fact that the verb is active? Look it up for yourself. The words shall turn are a verb in the active voice.
You and brightfame52 want to change the active into the passive for whatever reason. But your desire to change the active to the passive does not change it.
oh really ... aren't you the one who keeps insisting that the born again one cannot sin???
... now you're inferring that your added words are "spiritual" and your added words should be compared to the true spiritual matters contained in Scripture??? What a farce!!!
that's right ... so why do you not believe them???
... nope. The "if" pertains to the born again believers who walk in fellowship with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ (1 John 1:3).
Those who walk in fellowship with the Father and the Son will be walking in the light and they will have fellowship one with another (1 John 1:7).
Again you conflate salvation with fellowship and in so doing, you reveal you do not understand either.
nope ... to walk after the flesh is to live in light of who you were in Adam before becoming born again. Scripture refers to this as "the old man" and we are instructed to "put off the old man":
Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts
And Scripture makes clear this is something the believer is to do ... you put off. Does God help us "put off" ... yes He does. But you are the one who is instructed to "put off ... the old man". When those deceitful lusts start working on us to tempt us to be drawn away from God, don't turn from Him ... just stay the course. Resist the devil and he will flee – James 4:7 ... no telling how long we have to resist, but God's promise holds true, eventually the devil will go off to bother someone else if he can't get us to budge.
Again you conflate salvation with fellowship and in so doing, you reveal you do not understand either.
... nope, I agree with Scripture and to the extent you and I both agree with Scripture, then you and I are in agreement.
I do not know if you and I are in agreement concerning fellowship because you continuously conflate salvation with the day to day/ongoing fellowship with the Father.
another example wherein you conflate salvation with fellowship.
Here is what I told you in Post 535
Here is what I told you in Post 760
You and brightfame52 want to change the active into the passive for whatever reason. But your desire to change the active to the passive does not change it.
oh really ... aren't you the one who keeps insisting that the born again one cannot sin???
... now you're inferring that your added words are "spiritual" and your added words should be compared to the true spiritual matters contained in Scripture??? What a farce!!!that's right ... so why do you not believe them???
... nope. The "if" pertains to the born again believers who walk in fellowship with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ (1 John 1:3).Those who walk in fellowship with the Father and the Son will be walking in the light and they will have fellowship one with another (1 John 1:7).
Again you conflate salvation with fellowship and in so doing, you reveal you do not understand either.
nope ... to walk after the flesh is to live in light of who you were in Adam before becoming born again. Scripture refers to this as "the old man" and we are instructed to "put off the old man":
Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts
And Scripture makes clear this is something the believer is to do ... you put off. Does God help us "put off" ... yes He does. But you are the one who is instructed to "put off ... the old man". When those deceitful lusts start working on us to tempt us to be drawn away from God, don't turn from Him ... just stay the course. Resist the devil and he will flee – James 4:7 ... no telling how long we have to resist, but God's promise holds true, eventually the devil will go off to bother someone else if he can't get us to budge.
Again you conflate salvation with fellowship and in so doing, you reveal you do not understand either.
... nope, I agree with Scripture and to the extent you and I both agree with Scripture, then you and I are in agreement.I do not know if you and I are in agreement concerning fellowship because you continuously conflate salvation with the day to day/ongoing fellowship with the Father.
another example wherein you conflate salvation with fellowship.
Here is what I told you in Post 535
I believe that when a person is born again, he or she is sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise (Eph 1:13). The seal is evidence of ownership. The born again one belongs to God and no one can remove the born again one from God.
The born again one can, however, be robbed of fellowship with the Father and with the Lord Jesus Christ if / when he or she is drawn away by his or her own lusts ... which can lead to undesirable consequences for the believer.
Here is what I told you in Post 760
Again, rogerg, I'm not referring to salvation. There is no issue concerning salvation because you and I both agree that when a person is born again, he or she is a child of God ... belongs to God. God places His seal upon the born again one ... sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchase possession – Eph 1:13-14.
I am speaking of the moment by moment, day by day walk in this life ... the things we do which are not in alignment with who we are in the Lord Jesus Christ and which distract us from following Him. This does not affect our standing as a child of God. This does affect our fellowship with God ... our close walk with Him.
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I remember our discussion now. I agree with the Acts account, but the Rom 10 is where we differ, anyway, all of the elect are saved.
Do you believe the salvation scriptures teach that there in an eternal deliverance, and there is, also, many timely deliverances for the elect as they sojourn here on earth?
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wrong ... read the verses again, rogerg. It is clear that the believer is being tempted/drawn away to sin:
James 1:14-15 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin ...
Yes, rogerg, James 1:14-15 is speaking of the sin that is committed.
And James 1:12 tells us Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
The only way we can endure temptation is in not allowing ourselves to be drawn away from the Lord Jesus Christ. It is only in the Lord Jesus Christ that we have the capacity to endure the trial.
When we get distracted by the lusts of our flesh, we take our focus off of the Lord (we are drawn away from Him). We have no strength in and of ourselves to endure ... that is why it is imperative that we keep our focus on the Lord Jesus Christ. He walks with us and shares our burden so that we can endure.
... wow ... so fellowship with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ is not "significant"??? sorry ... not in agreement with you there, rogerg.
That some folks have such a blasé attitude if/when a born again one sins because, "hey, they're still born again so what's the big deal ... it doesn't affect one's salvation".
There is loss that is suffered by the born again one who stumbles.
It brings sorrow to the heart of the Father when He sees one of His children sin.
And what about the Lord Jesus Christ? He's the One Who was crucified on our behalf. He's the One Who endured the cross, despising the shame.
Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
“He is grieved with us mainly for our own sakes, for he knows what misery sin will cost us; he reads our sorrows in our sins… He grieves over us because he sees how much chastisement we incur, and how much communion we lose.” (Spurgeon)
The "communion we lose" refers to fellowship with the Father ... Spurgeon understood the difference between salvation and fellowship.
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James 1:14-15 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin ...
Yes, rogerg, James 1:14-15 is speaking of the sin that is committed.
And James 1:12 tells us Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
The only way we can endure temptation is in not allowing ourselves to be drawn away from the Lord Jesus Christ. It is only in the Lord Jesus Christ that we have the capacity to endure the trial.
When we get distracted by the lusts of our flesh, we take our focus off of the Lord (we are drawn away from Him). We have no strength in and of ourselves to endure ... that is why it is imperative that we keep our focus on the Lord Jesus Christ. He walks with us and shares our burden so that we can endure.
... wow ... so fellowship with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ is not "significant"??? sorry ... not in agreement with you there, rogerg.
That some folks have such a blasé attitude if/when a born again one sins because, "hey, they're still born again so what's the big deal ... it doesn't affect one's salvation".
There is loss that is suffered by the born again one who stumbles.
It brings sorrow to the heart of the Father when He sees one of His children sin.
And what about the Lord Jesus Christ? He's the One Who was crucified on our behalf. He's the One Who endured the cross, despising the shame.
Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
“He is grieved with us mainly for our own sakes, for he knows what misery sin will cost us; he reads our sorrows in our sins… He grieves over us because he sees how much chastisement we incur, and how much communion we lose.” (Spurgeon)
The "communion we lose" refers to fellowship with the Father ... Spurgeon understood the difference between salvation and fellowship.
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Galatians 5:10 does not support your claim that a born again believer "wont stray away from [the Truth], they cant no longer be deceived".
Read Galatians 5:7 ... just a few verses before your proof text:
Galatians 5:7-10 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.
The Galatian believers were hindered by someone who had come into the church and taught something other than the truth.
The NIV translates Gal 5:7 as follows: You were running a good race. Who cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth?
It is clear from Scripture that a born again believer can stray from the Truth and they can be deceived. If and when this occurs, this affects their day to day walk with God ... their communion with Him, their fellowship with the Father ... notwithstanding the insistence by you and brightfame52 to the contrary.
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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Read Galatians 5:7 ... just a few verses before your proof text:
Galatians 5:7-10 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.
The Galatian believers were hindered by someone who had come into the church and taught something other than the truth.
The NIV translates Gal 5:7 as follows: You were running a good race. Who cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth?
It is clear from Scripture that a born again believer can stray from the Truth and they can be deceived. If and when this occurs, this affects their day to day walk with God ... their communion with Him, their fellowship with the Father ... notwithstanding the insistence by you and brightfame52 to the contrary.
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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This is the only reply I'm going to male to your recent posts because I've already refuted them before. Christ IS the Truth. Despite your insistence to the contrary, no one who is elect/saved/born again can stray from Christ as their Saviour because it is God Himself who guarantees that will not happen.
Everything else flows from, and a byproduct of that salvation.
Everything else flows from, and a byproduct of that salvation.
Okay, you did post a new point so I will reply to that one too.
Sure, there have been/will be false prophets who attempt to bring false doctrine into or to hinder the true church, but as true believers, they will never follow it. But that they were being hindered (or their forward progress slowed or stopped), was not the point, Instead, the point was whether they remained faithful to Christ, by Christ.
You didn't read far enough which is a common problem for you. Paul was not speaking of their falling away from belief in Christ as Saviour, instead, he was speaking of their desire to observe holy days instead of the liberty that is in Christ Jesus. Paul corrected them, especially because they were new in the faith and were still learning about Christ, of their salvation, and of Christian doctrine. No Christian wakes up one morning knowing everything there is to know about the tenets of salvation nor of Christ. Paul accompanied his teaching with admonitions that they should cease and desist from the seeking or the doing of them- by which they learned and gained wisdom. However, even in the depths of their ignorance of doctrine, they never perceived it as being something they needed to perform to become or remain saved, nor of their needing to return back to faith- they steadfastly remained in belief that salvation is/was/by Christ alone and was not by them.
this was Paul's criticism:
[Gal 4:10 KJV] 10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
How do we know they would cease from that? Because Paul said they would, but only "through the Lord"; that is, because God was within them moving them to recognize the truth and moving them to follow it - it was by God, otherwise, for the unsaved, they would not. This is confirmed, and confirms, 1 Pet 1:5.
[Gal 5:10 KJV] 10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.
[1Pe 1:5 KJV] 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Paul's criticism of them, in essence was the same one he levied against Peter and Barnabas. Would you say that Peter and Barnabas had fallen from faith in Christ as Saviour? No, absolutely not!
A failure to observe or know doctrine, is not synonymous to a failure or an abandonment of faith.
[Gal 2:12-13 KJV]
12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
Sure, there have been/will be false prophets who attempt to bring false doctrine into or to hinder the true church, but as true believers, they will never follow it. But that they were being hindered (or their forward progress slowed or stopped), was not the point, Instead, the point was whether they remained faithful to Christ, by Christ.
You didn't read far enough which is a common problem for you. Paul was not speaking of their falling away from belief in Christ as Saviour, instead, he was speaking of their desire to observe holy days instead of the liberty that is in Christ Jesus. Paul corrected them, especially because they were new in the faith and were still learning about Christ, of their salvation, and of Christian doctrine. No Christian wakes up one morning knowing everything there is to know about the tenets of salvation nor of Christ. Paul accompanied his teaching with admonitions that they should cease and desist from the seeking or the doing of them- by which they learned and gained wisdom. However, even in the depths of their ignorance of doctrine, they never perceived it as being something they needed to perform to become or remain saved, nor of their needing to return back to faith- they steadfastly remained in belief that salvation is/was/by Christ alone and was not by them.
this was Paul's criticism:
[Gal 4:10 KJV] 10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
How do we know they would cease from that? Because Paul said they would, but only "through the Lord"; that is, because God was within them moving them to recognize the truth and moving them to follow it - it was by God, otherwise, for the unsaved, they would not. This is confirmed, and confirms, 1 Pet 1:5.
[Gal 5:10 KJV] 10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.
[1Pe 1:5 KJV] 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Paul's criticism of them, in essence was the same one he levied against Peter and Barnabas. Would you say that Peter and Barnabas had fallen from faith in Christ as Saviour? No, absolutely not!
A failure to observe or know doctrine, is not synonymous to a failure or an abandonment of faith.
[Gal 2:12-13 KJV]
12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
No, a believer cannot be deceived, here is the memo from Christ Matt 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
If they come under the influence of false teaching, they still wont be finally deceived. They have an unction from God 1 Jn 2 that makes it impossible to be finally deceived and fall from the Faith
1 Jn 2:20-21,26-28
20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
Notice John said that ye shall abide in Him ! Thats a guarantee they shall abide in the true doctrine because of the indwelling Spirit who is with them forever
In the original Ye shall abide is a future active indicative. They are abiding in Christ now and shall be in the future. The indactive means:
Is a simple statement of fact. If an action really occurs or has occurred or will occur, it will be rendered in the indicative mood.
can a True believer fall prey to the influences of false teaching, of course, can they they be finally deceived and lost, NO !
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
If they come under the influence of false teaching, they still wont be finally deceived. They have an unction from God 1 Jn 2 that makes it impossible to be finally deceived and fall from the Faith
1 Jn 2:20-21,26-28
20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
Notice John said that ye shall abide in Him ! Thats a guarantee they shall abide in the true doctrine because of the indwelling Spirit who is with them forever
In the original Ye shall abide is a future active indicative. They are abiding in Christ now and shall be in the future. The indactive means:
Is a simple statement of fact. If an action really occurs or has occurred or will occur, it will be rendered in the indicative mood.
can a True believer fall prey to the influences of false teaching, of course, can they they be finally deceived and lost, NO !
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