Calvin did not invent the doctrines of grace

[oyster67]

It leaves only those that have been born spiritually that will call upon a spiritual God.

The Bible clearly states that calling on the name of the Lord is prerequisite to salvation. You have been shown many verses many times. You have been banging your head against a brick wall for far too long. Your idea that we must be saved before we can be born again is irrational as well as unbiblical. Please leave that cult you are in and never look back.

 

[brightfame52]

The Bible clearly states that calling on the name of the Lord is prerequisite to salvation. You have been shown many verses many times. You have been banging your head against a brick wall for far too long. Your idea that we must be saved before we can be born again is irrational as well as unbiblical. Please leave that cult you are in and never look back.

The calling on the name of the Lord is an evidence of being in a saved , quickened condition. Dead folk to call upon God.

 

[oyster67]

The calling on the name of the Lord is an evidence of being in a saved , quickened condition. Dead folk to call upon God.

Calling on the name of the Lord is prerequisite to being in a saved, quickened condition. Spiritually dead folk are the very ones that Christ gave his life to save. It is such elementary Christian doctrine, yet so confused and abused here on CC. Satan is making serious inroads here.

Romans 10:13
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

2 Corinthians 5:17
“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”

 

[brightfame52]

Calling on the name of the Lord is prerequisite to being in a saved, quickened condition. Spiritually dead folk are the very ones that Christ gave his life to save. It is such elementary Christian doctrine, yet so confused and abused here on CC. Satan is making serious inroads here.

Romans 10:13
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

2 Corinthians 5:17
“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”

Sorry but there's no spiritual activity for spiritual dead heart. Not until one is saved from spiritual death can they spiritually act and call upon the name of the lord

 

[rogerg]

Sorry but there's no spiritual activity for spiritual dead heart. Not until one is saved from spiritual death can they spiritually act and call upon the name of the lord

Absolutely correct, brightfame52. Until and unless being given spiritual life, we all remain spiritually dead in sin, and being dead, oblivious to the things of God. God did not choose His words loosely or carelessly but meant precisely what He said.

[Eph 2:1 KJV] 1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;

[Rom 5:15 KJV] 15 But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

 

[brightfame52]

Absolutely correct, brightfame52. Until and unless being given spiritual life, we all remain spiritually dead in sin, and being dead, oblivious to the things of God. God did not choose His words loosely or carelessly but meant precisely what He said.

[Eph 2:1 KJV] 1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;

[Rom 5:15 KJV] 15 But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Thats right, but people in general dont believe that by nature we are dead to the the True God, even though we are alive to man made religion and false gospels and Jesus's and gods.

 

[Magenta]

Absolutely correct, brightfame52. Until and unless being given spiritual life, we all remain spiritually dead in sin, and being dead, oblivious to the things of God. God did not choose His words loosely or carelessly but meant precisely what He said.

God said something other than what you present. This must be taken into consideration, also.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness
and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood
by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were
thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like
to corruptible man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things.

 

[brightfame52]

oyster

The Bible clearly states that calling on the name of the Lord is prerequisite to salvation.

No it doesnt. Calling upon the name of the Lord is conditioned on God first quickening us with New Spiritual Life Ps 80:18-19

18 So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.

19 Turn us again, O Lord God of hosts, cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.

 

[brightfame52]

God said something other than what you present. This must be taken into consideration, also.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness
and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood
by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were
thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like
to corruptible man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things.

Thats why men must first be made alive, otherwise mans natural perception of God spirals downward into Idolatry.

 

[Magenta]

Thats why men must first be made alive, otherwise mans natural perception of God spirals downward into Idolatry.

People are not oblivious to the things of God as was stated.

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood
by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 

[rogerg]

God said something other than what you present. This must be taken into consideration, also.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness
and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood
by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were
thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like
to corruptible man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things.

Yes - the unsaved should know and realize, it being shown to them, however, as dead in their sin, they are oblivious to it and to unable to gain understanding or wisdom.

[2Co 4:3-4 KJV]
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

This is utter rubbish. Either you repented or you did not repent. God did not do the repenting for you.

The natural man (1 Cor 2:14) before he has been spiritually born again, will not, and indeed, cannot repent of breaking one of God's spiritual laws that he cannot discern, and thinks them to be foolishness. Only the born again will repent of breaking a spiritual law of God.

 

[rogerg]

The natural man (1 Cor 2:14) before he has been spiritually born again, will not, and indeed, cannot repent of breaking one of God's spiritual laws that he cannot discern, and thinks them to be foolishness. Only the born again will repent of breaking a spiritual law of God.

Not to interrupt, but that is exactly what Christ did - He repented for those He came to save - that is what His offering
accomplished. I think brightfame52 pointed this verse out to me - so hat-tip to brighfame52:

[Act 5:31 KJV] 31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand [to be] a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

If God will "give" repentance as a "gift" then He will give it to all. But that is not what you believe, and you cannot have it both ways. If it is a gift it must come to all. But if it is what the sinner does then that is a totally different matter.

God's grace is not only a gift, it is a FREE gift.

 

[Magenta]

Yes - the unsaved should know and realize, it being shown to them, however, as dead in their sin, they are oblivious to it and to unable to gain understanding or wisdom.

[2Co 4:3-4 KJV] 3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds
of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Yes, it is the gospel that is foolishness to them... not the fact there is a God.
They are not oblivious to that as you said. And so they are without excuse.

 

[rogerg]

Yes, it is the gospel that is foolishness to them... not the fact there is a God.

Don't understand, are the two different? If someone doesn't understand and believe the gospel, are they knowing the true God or knowing the god of this world instead?

 

[Magenta]

Don't understand, are the two different? If someone doesn't understand and believe
the gospel, are they knowing the true God or knowing the god of this world instead?

I simply presented Scripture to you that proves they are not oblivious to God as you claimed.

There is a distinction between knowing there is a God and knowing His plan for humanity.

Paul addresses this...

Oh my, you confuse the God of creation with Satan??? .

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The Bible clearly states that calling on the name of the Lord is prerequisite to salvation. You have been shown many verses many times. You have been banging your head against a brick wall for far too long. Your idea that we must be saved before we can be born again is irrational as well as unbiblical. Please leave that cult you are in and never look back.

Do you view all views, other than your own, as a cult?

There is a deliverance (salvation) that the child of God receives as he sojourns here in this world, by his good works.

Your belief in eternal deliverance by works, is because of your inability to understand that salvation=deliverance, and that most salvation scriptures has reference to deliverances that the child of God receives, here in this world, by his good works.

 

[brightfame52]

People are not oblivious to the things of God as was stated.

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood
by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Man naturally is an idolater with the revelation of God.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Yes, it is the gospel that is foolishness to them... not the fact there is a God.
They are not oblivious to that as you said. And so they are without excuse.

God is a spirit, and we must worship him in spirit and in truth. The natural man cannot do that, according to 1 Cor 2:14.