What is Your Yearly Income? (Would $70,000 in Debt Be a Problem?)

[seoulsearch]

Hey Everyone,

This is meant to be the 3rd thread in a series: Thread #1 asked by what age someone should buy or own a home; Thread #2 asked how much debt plays a role when considering dating/marriage.

So just to recap, in the last thread, we added up these "Average American" debts for a single person, according to Google:

Credit Card Debt: $9260.00
Student Loans: $37,338.00
Car Loan: $20,987.00

Grand Total: $67,585.00

This means that a young "Average American Couple" might be looking at a combined debt of around $135,170.00 once they got married (not including medical, family, and housing debts.) A valid point was also brought up that a lot of the effect of the debt burden depended on how much income is earned vs. how much is owed.

The example was given that if someone had a $70,000 debt and made $60,000 a year, that would be an awfully heavy burden. But if someone was making $200,000 a year, it might not be so bad. This is very true. Except that...

According to Google (and again, I'm not saying Google is accurate, it's just the easiest way to pull some numbers,) in 2021, the average male salary was $50,391, and the average female salary was $36,726. That's a little off the mark from $200,000.

This particular site also mentioned that the top salaries for that year (those actually making $200K+) were chief executives and nurse anesthetists.

I hate to sound like a Downer Debbie, but unfortunately, my career as an anesthetist just didn't work out -- no matter how much I might like to put some people to sleep. (Only temporarily, I promise!)

I don't know about everyone else, but I'm pretty far away from $200,000 a year, and a $70,000 debt (which, as discussed, doesn't even include medical, family, or housing costs) would be a pretty steep hill to climb. I might have owed that much (and more) at one time, as I did go to college, but I never added up all the numbers at once. I just kept paying and paying and paying, and now that I'm in a much more healthy place, one of the reasons I don't want to buy a house is because I don't want an even bigger impossibly large number hanging over my head.

And so I'm curious.

What are people's thoughts on their incomes vs. what they owe?

* How much would $70,000 in debt affect your life and spending?

* Do you expect to pay off the debts you have in this lifetime? Is it even worth trying? Would God want us to make to effort, or just not worry about it and leave our debts to others when we die?

* Do you know anyone who paid off all their debts? How did they do it? (And was it because of a large income?) I have often read that even when people make larger incomes, they just take on all the more debt, and so their situation winds up not being any better, or possibly worse, than those with lower incomes.

* What would you teach your children or others about debt? (How much to take on, is it worth trying to pay it off, etc.?)

I'm going to write a poll asking about people's yearly incomes, just to get a feel as to how much the assumed $70,000 in individual debt would affect those here. Please note that this poll will not be able to include a lot of things. Back in the day before the system was changed, CC polls used to allow up to about 40 different answers. Now they only allow around 10, so I have to work within the constraints of the system.

If I had more options available, I would break it down into single households vs. married households. But since I don't have enough choices to work with, I'm going to ask anyone who wants to answer to give an estimate of what they or the household breadwinner brings home. For instance, if you are married and are the breadwinner, give your salary. If you stay at home and your spouse works, go ahead and check the box for your spouse's salary. If you both work, go ahead and give just your income. This is because I'm interested in the effects of the assumed $70,000 individual debt will have on individual people with only one salary.

ALL ANSWERS ARE PRIVATE (NO ONE CAN SEE THEM.) And of course, don't feel a need to answer the poll -- like I said, the purpose is just to get a feel for how much $70,000 in debt would affect the daily lives of those here. Please don't let the poll be a substitute for a discussion -- along with your poll choice, I would really like to hear your thoughts.

This subject is a very thin line to walk. Some might accuse me of trusting in money rather than God, but my real focus in writing these threads is trying open the discussion for what trust in God vs. handling real life issues really looks like, especially for singles who are dating and looking to marry.

I for one couldn't marry someone who said, "Sure, we'll have half a million dollars worth of debt (if we buy a house) when we marry, but God will work it all out, so let's just barge right ahead and do it anyway!"

I would first need for us to talk about our history with money and debt, how we handle it, and if we are on the same page. I would then want to know that we had a game plan (on paper) as to how we were going to work at getting those numbers down, and if we couldn't pay them off in this life, at least when we went Home to God, we could tell Him we tried our very best.

I have always found these topics crucial to sort through, but seldom talked about. I'm looking forward to hearing your answers.

 

[AcceptedintheBeloved]

Need to know! This is too personal.

 

[Lynx]

Shoot it'd take me decades to pay that off. I w*rk at a fast food factory. That's even more than twice what my roth IRA is.

If I meet a lady and she has that much debt, I sure hope she also has a plan.

 

[seoulsearch]

Need to know! This is too personal.

I totally understand -- no need to answer with a number at all.

The much more important part is the discussion about debts and how to handle them in the way God wants us to.

The poll is just meant as a tool to help illustrate how much debt is impacting people's lives.

 

[Lanolin]

Not sure how to answer this as many jobs are not steady or guaranteed in this day and age, you income may vary from one year to the next.

But say if you do find a steady job then you'd just work out how many years youd need to work to pay off that debt. This is why many people play lotto lol

Generally retirement age is set at 65 in nz and then you can accesss kiwisaver, but pensions may not even be around in the future.

its best to be financially free cos being a slave all your life is not ideal.

 

[Lanolin]

credit card debt,,,you dont need a credit card. They just a money pit. Cut it up.

car loan...dont have car loans. Pay for a car up front. Buy second hand or auction but get it checked out. if your job needs a car you company should provide it. A private car is your own cost.

student loan...parents, grandparents, benefactors and scholarships...you shouldnt need a student loan as many courses are free but if you are determined and stick with it, your graduate job should be paying it of (it comes out of your subsequent earnings first) and if you love your job, you wouldnt mind working it anyway.

 

[Lanolin]

Generally 7 years is general rule of thumb how long it can take to pay off debt in the Bible. After that debts were forgiven, you could take a sabbatical.

Im not sure how the number crunching holds up for the average american. (and not an average american, or even an american) But Im supposing thats why there are places like Las Vegas (or as people call it 'lost wages')

 

[cinder]

Well I took on 70k of debt when I bought my house ( or was it closer to 80). But I have no other debt and keep my expenses low so I expect to pay it off in 10 years. Then I'll have to decide if my starter home is going to be my finisher home or if I want to live in a senior kind of community.

In fairness that's also pretty low interest debt. If I had taken on the same amount of credit card debt and was paying the same payments,. It would take 12 years to pay off (well likely longer since I'd still have to pay for lodging as well). And the interest paid differs by over 100,000 dollars.

So I guess it means that I need to find a guy that's worth if not a million then at least 100k.

 

[seoulsearch]

Well I took on 70k of debt when I bought my house ( or was it closer to 80). But I have no other debt and keep my expenses low so I expect to pay it off in 10 years. Then I'll have to decide if my starter home is going to be my finisher home or if I want to live in a senior kind of community.

In fairness that's also pretty low interest debt. If I had taken on the same amount of credit card debt and was paying the same payments,. It would take 12 years to pay off (well likely longer since I'd still have to pay for lodging as well). And the interest paid differs by over 100,000 dollars.

So I guess it means that I need to find a guy that's worth if not a million then at least 100k.

This reminds me of when I worked with a very sweet older lady who had been a widow and remarried. She later confided that she had come to believe that her second husband had only married her because she had inherited her house, and he thought, her deceased husband's pension. The marriage was starting to show cracks when it was discovered that she didn't inherit as much as her second husband had thought.

This was long before internet dating, and I have read that seniors who own a home or have benefits are often see as the easiest ones to target -- even by other seniors.


Cinder, I'm guessing that after this posts, you are now either going to attract potential dates who are envisioning living in your house for free, or else high rollers who are looking for a woman to help them up their bank.

 

[Tall_Timbers]

@seoulsearch, You should include another choice so anyone could accurately poll: Over $100,000. In many cities now, if your income is a mere 100K annually, you're going to be struggling.

I can't answer the debt question because I don't do debt as a rule. I could say that any debt is a problem. I do use credit cards but pay each monthly bill in full. For me, using credit cards just allows me to collect interest on the monies already spent until the bill is finally paid.

 

[Lynx]

Well I took on 70k of debt when I bought my house ( or was it closer to 80). But I have no other debt and keep my expenses low so I expect to pay it off in 10 years. Then I'll have to decide if my starter home is going to be my finisher home or if I want to live in a senior kind of community.

In fairness that's also pretty low interest debt. If I had taken on the same amount of credit card debt and was paying the same payments,. It would take 12 years to pay off (well likely longer since I'd still have to pay for lodging as well). And the interest paid differs by over 100,000 dollars.

So I guess it means that I need to find a guy that's worth if not a million then at least 100k.

Soooo... What are you doing this Saturday night?

 

[MsMediator]

This reminds me of when I worked with a very sweet older lady who had been a widow and remarried. She later confided that she had come to believe that her second husband had only married her because she had inherited her house, and he thought, her deceased husband's pension. The marriage was starting to show cracks when it was discovered that she didn't inherit as much as her second husband had thought.

This was long before internet dating, and I have read that seniors who own a home or have benefits are often see as the easiest ones to target -- even by other seniors.


Cinder, I'm guessing that after this posts, you are now either going to attract potential dates who are envisioning living in your house for free, or else high rollers who are looking for a woman to help them up their bank.

That's terrible. Not a Christian thing to do, but that's why many older people live together but do not get married. I actually had one older friend from church (in her 60s) who was low income living paycheck to paycheck (living primarily on social security) but wanted to meet someone who would take her to Paris and other places. Ultimately she wanted a partner/companion with whom she could share a meal, but she also wanted someone with whom she could have some nice experiences which cost money. I can't blame her for dreaming. It is best to somehow establish first that a couple loves each other, but easier said than done.

 

[Tall_Timbers]

This was long before internet dating, and I have read that seniors who own a home or have benefits are often see as the easiest ones to target -- even by other seniors.

I knew a gold miner in interior Alaska who was older than dirt. In his 80's at least. He was not a Christian. He had one young gold digger after another on his arm at any given time. He'd leave gold nuggets around his home on purpose, but nothing else of value. Eventually, when the gold digger got tired of waiting for him to die, they'd collect all the gold nuggets and disappear. This happened over and over again. It was kind of amusing... They each were playing him, and he was playing them.

 

[seoulsearch]

@seoulsearch, You should include another choice so anyone could accurately poll: Over $100,000. In many cities now, if your income is a mere 100K annually, you're going to be struggling.

I can't answer the debt question because I don't do debt as a rule. I could say that any debt is a problem. I do use credit cards but pay each monthly bill in full. For me, using credit cards just allows me to collect interest on the monies already spent until the bill is finally paid.

Hi @Tall_Timbers,

I explained the limitation of the poll choices in the original post. CC used to have a poll system that allowed for about 40 choices; I would have done a lot more if it still allowed that many, including the $100K+ option.

With the current system, I used up all the number of options I was allowed. It doesn't let you create any more than that set amount.

So, I debated. I could have done "plus" instead of "less." But, we have had a lot of struggling people on the forum who have talked about being on assistance and are living on very little money. So I thought, "Do I just start with $10K+ and go from there? Which will make anyone who happens to bring in less than $10K feel excluded..."

And so I realize the way it's set up now, the high earners are excluded instead. I probably should have gone with something like, "Up to $10K - $20K" and used larger intervals to make up for the small number of poll options. This would have allowed me to have an option for $100K plus...

But as it is, it took me well over an hour to write that opening post and poll, and I was working on limited time as it was.

I did the best I could with I had available.

So for anyone who doesn't fit the parameters in the poll, feel free to set your own.

And don't feel like you have to blatantly state your own income if you don't want, or what it currently is -- I do realize that is way too personal for most people. You don't even have to use a current number if you don't want. The only purpose of the poll is to give people an idea of how much of a strain $70,000 in debt really is on people's incomes.

When I answered the poll (because I feel it's unfair to write one and then not answer it myself,) I chose an average number from the past several years rather than my current one.

 

[seoulsearch]

Well I took on 70k of debt when I bought my house ( or was it closer to 80). But I have no other debt and keep my expenses low so I expect to pay it off in 10 years. Then I'll have to decide if my starter home is going to be my finisher home or if I want to live in a senior kind of community.

In fairness that's also pretty low interest debt. If I had taken on the same amount of credit card debt and was paying the same payments,. It would take 12 years to pay off (well likely longer since I'd still have to pay for lodging as well). And the interest paid differs by over 100,000 dollars.

So I guess it means that I need to find a guy that's worth if not a million then at least 100k.

Soooo... What are you doing this Saturday night?

I volunteer to be the chauffeur! Well, seeing as Lynx likes to drive, maybe I'm just better off as a chaperone.

Wot?

This is the Singles Forum.

Remember the days when we used to have a regular stream of (usually) married people coming in and preaching at us about how we should only be courting, because dating is a sin? Then they would assume that all we singles ever did was to to bars and hook up with random strangers on the weekends, and continued to preach down to the people here because of it.

If by any chance we have any of that crowd still lurking here, they'll probably have a heart attack at thought of two grown, single Christian adults who have known each other for years going on a date.

Think of how relieved they'll be to see that I've volunteered myself to be the 3rd Wheel.

 

[seoulsearch]

That's terrible. Not a Christian thing to do, but that's why many older people live together but do not get married. I actually had one older friend from church (in her 60s) who was low income living paycheck to paycheck (living primarily on social security) but wanted to meet someone who would take her to Paris and other places. Ultimately she wanted a partner/companion with whom she could share a meal, but she also wanted someone with whom she could have some nice experiences which cost money. I can't blame her for dreaming. It is best to somehow establish first that a couple loves each other, but easier said than done.

I have also heard of many older couples wanting to live together or keep their separate residences and then just stay over at each others' places because if they marry, they'll lose their benefits.

As I keep saying throughout these threads, I know we are to trust God rather than money or the government, but that would be a really tough situation to have to consider -- especially for someone who is relying on assistance for serious health issues.

 

[Tall_Timbers]

I did the best I could with I had available.

Sorry, my newness here contributed to my lack of understanding of creating the polls. I've been retired for over 20 years now. My earned income was quite low by today's standards. I know a lot of young people whose starting salary when they enter the work force is 100K and up and they're definitely middle middle class in terms of spending power, at best. These are folks with stem degrees. I know that 40 years ago we probably didn't spend more than $2000 a month and today it's 10K a month and more sometimes for a similar standard of living. A new car that cost 8-10K back then is 35-40K today. A house that was around 80K then is around 400K today. With what inflation has done to the dollar, I'd say a couple with a combined income of around 200K is middle class by my way of thinking... and if they live in one of the big cities they're probably what we used to call working class.

 

[cinder]

Soooo... What are you doing this Saturday night?

Laundry most likely. Maybe making homemade ice cream. Maybe playing video games or transferring computers.

 

[seoulsearch]

Sorry, my newness here contributed to my lack of understanding of creating the polls. I've been retired for over 20 years now. My earned income was quite low by today's standards. I know a lot of young people whose starting salary when they enter the work force is 100K and up and they're definitely middle middle class in terms of spending power, at best. These are folks with stem degrees. I know that 40 years ago we probably didn't spend more than $2000 a month and today it's 10K a month and more sometimes for a similar standard of living. A new car that cost 8-10K back then is 35-40K today. A house that was around 80K then is around 400K today. With what inflation has done to the dollar, I'd say a couple with a combined income of around 200K is middle class by my way of thinking... and if they live in one of the big cities they're probably what we used to call working class.

No problem, I really appreciate all the information you're sharing here, as well as your clear grasp of how things have changed. Congratulations on your retirement and I'm really enjoying your posts, so thank you for joining these discussions.

I know many people from older generations don't believe in or rack up debts like we do today, but I don't some of them fully understand how much things have changed.

As you said, $100K doesn't even cut it for a lot of people and I'm sure that in our parents' and grandparents' day, that would have been quite a handsome sum. Not so anymore.

Like you, I've never been a big earner, I was just raised to try to do the best with what I have. I've worked in retail all my life, and many of my co-workers were like me -- formerly big dreamers who thought we would have a big career, but life events railroaded us onto unforeseen paths.

One of my managers was an engineer by profession, and we all asked him what on earth he was doing working at a store. He said that his wife's mother had gotten sick, so they moved to the area from their home state, where he'd had a very good job. But in this new location, he couldn't find any work in his field because it was a big retirement area, and companies could easily hire former engineers part-time instead of taking on the expense of full-timers. He was doing what he could to support his family, even though it meant making a whole lot less than his ability.

When I was in a grad program for psychology, one of my classmates was torn because she earned more as a manager at Subway than what the psych job she had applied for would pay. I see signs in windows now at fast food places offering a much bigger starting wage for management than I might have made if my own "life plans" had worked out, so I often wonder if going to college is even worth it anymore.

I see so many people struggling... Let alone making $200K a year. It's awesome for the people who do, but I personally don't know many, and I spend a lot of time asking God what the best way is to follow Him in a world that has become so incredibly unaffordable.

 

[Lynx]

Laundry most likely. Maybe making homemade ice cream. Maybe playing video games or transferring computers.

Cool! I actually do all four of those regularly. Not even kidding.