Who's Interested in Doctrine and Faith?

[Flannery]

I was just thinking about the definition of the word "Doctrine". A doctrine is a teaching in the context that such and such is the law, and it has a exegetical proof. The first mediaeval scholastic to write a complete treatise on doctrine after the Cardinal's meeting that set the cannon at a certain number of books listed in the table of contents was a man by the name of Peter Abelard, and I've never had the time or scholarly recourses to find out what a Crusader Knight sort thought was a full list of the Biblical doctrines. (Another expression for Biblical Doctrine is Cannon Law).

I'm all for faith, I know it gets abused in modern America, both in raucous political debates over the secular setting of the government and in accounting, but I'm grown up enough and well-read enough to have a solid understanding of the textbook and stable enough in both literary scholarship and temporal affairs that I know what faith is. I'm interested in finding out what some of the doctrines are that people study in their prayer devotions and in their churches. The premier doctrine in historic Christianity is the Doctrine of Divinity, a religious law which states simply that "Jesus Christ is divine." This one is the basis of a sober seminary and answers the philosophical question "why" as to any further social practice for people who mean to sign up and practice within and individual denomination.

What is your favorite doctrine of the faith, and why? For example, Baptist believers focus on the immersion in the water as an outward mark of dedication to Christianity. What do you believe about the Doctrine of Baptism? What are some of your Bible stories that you meditate on in connection with it? The Red Sea parting? Naaman and the Syrian? Pool of Salome in the Gospels?

Where do you stand on the doctrine of the Resurrection? How many resurrections are there going to be, one or two? If there is only one, then all will be judged together, but if there are two, of the saved and the lost, then we might be all presorted and predestined.

How many doctrines does your church embrace and teach from the pulpit on Sunday morning? What are some of them? I'm very interested to know, because your church doctrines are to the Bible as the National Amendments are to the United States Constitution (a doctrine is an overarching law and ruling principle of the faith, remember)? Let's hear some of them, and their scriptural basis.

 

[Magenta]

What do you believe about the Doctrine of Baptism?

Hello Flannery .. This one gets discussed a fair bit here... with some believing that water baptism is an absolute
necessity for salvation, and others believing that it is the baptism by or into the Holy Spirit of God which saves.

Ephesians 4:5-6

 

[Artios1]

A doctrine is a teaching in the context that such and such is the law, and it has a exegetical proof.

When it comes to doctrines - my standard for Truth is the Word of God. That is what I measure all other against. The Word is my only source of faith, practice, and Truth……(including baptism)

Anything outside of the Word (regarding the Word) is man’s conjecture and for the most part worthless…..

Why would I trust anything outside of the truth to instruct me in righteousness if the Word has given me all things that pertain to life and godliness? (2Pe 1:3)

 

[Flannery]

When it comes to doctrines - my standard for Truth is the Word of God. That is what I measure all other against. The Word is my only source of faith, practice, and Truth……(including baptism)

Anything outside of the Word (regarding the Word) is man’s conjecture and for the most part worthless…..

Why would I trust anything outside of the truth to instruct me in righteousness if the Word has given me all things that pertain to life and godliness? (2Pe 1:3)

In the context of scripture. "exegesis" is a logical proof a topic or teaching is linked to the life of Christ. Exegesis means linked to Jesus. For example. Jesus was baptized. Christians are baptized as Jesus was, also because Jesus was, but Christians don't all call twelve disciples like Jesus did, because Jesus did.

 

[Artios1]

In the context of scripture. "exegesis" is a logical proof a topic or teaching is linked to the life of Christ. Exegesis means linked to Jesus. For example. Jesus was baptized. Christians are baptized as Jesus was, also because Jesus was, but Christians don't all call twelve disciples like Jesus did, because Jesus did.

But you can’t defend exegesis as Truth…. it may be, it may not be ….it is an explanation or interpretation of a text (scripture) by man………… Logical is subjective.

 

[Paran]

What is your favorite doctrine of the faith, and why?

-

Because without this, there is no Christianity.

= Romans 5

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the GIFT of righteousness<<<< shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ

 

[Shebrew]

I was just thinking about the definition of the word "Doctrine". A doctrine is a teaching in the context that such and such is the law, and it has a exegetical proof. The first mediaeval scholastic to write a complete treatise on doctrine after the Cardinal's meeting that set the cannon at a certain number of books listed in the table of contents was a man by the name of Peter Abelard, and I've never had the time or scholarly recourses to find out what a Crusader Knight sort thought was a full list of the Biblical doctrines. (Another expression for Biblical Doctrine is Cannon Law).

I'm all for faith, I know it gets abused in modern America, both in raucous political debates over the secular setting of the government and in accounting, but I'm grown up enough and well-read enough to have a solid understanding of the textbook and stable enough in both literary scholarship and temporal affairs that I know what faith is. I'm interested in finding out what some of the doctrines are that people study in their prayer devotions and in their churches. The premier doctrine in historic Christianity is the Doctrine of Divinity, a religious law which states simply that "Jesus Christ is divine." This one is the basis of a sober seminary and answers the philosophical question "why" as to any further social practice for people who mean to sign up and practice within and individual denomination.

What is your favorite doctrine of the faith, and why? For example, Baptist believers focus on the immersion in the water as an outward mark of dedication to Christianity. What do you believe about the Doctrine of Baptism? What are some of your Bible stories that you meditate on in connection with it? The Red Sea parting? Naaman and the Syrian? Pool of Salome in the Gospels?

Where do you stand on the doctrine of the Resurrection? How many resurrections are there going to be, one or two? If there is only one, then all will be judged together, but if there are two, of the saved and the lost, then we might be all presorted and predestined.

How many doctrines does your church embrace and teach from the pulpit on Sunday morning? What are some of them? I'm very interested to know, because your church doctrines are to the Bible as the National Amendments are to the United States Constitution (a doctrine is an overarching law and ruling principle of the faith, remember)? Let's hear some of them, and their scriptural basis.

*Cannon Law: only follow if backed by the bible
*Favorite Doctorine of faith: repent and be baptized
*Baptism: full emerson of the body as the purpose of baptism is to be buried with Yashua and rise with Him from the water and now with the Holy Spirit.
*Resurrections: Revelation speaks of 2 resurrectionsthe saints in the first one and then the Great White Throne Judgement
*Not Sunday: My faith practices Sabbath, per the bible. Man moved it from Sabbath to Sunday, not Yashua or the apostles, over 300 hundred years after Yashua died.
We practice the 7 Feast days, follow the biblical laws & commandments. Follow Old & New Testament as they do not contradict each other, they clarify each other.

 

[Flannery]

When it comes to doctrines - my standard for Truth is the Word of God. That is what I measure all other against. The Word is my only source of faith, practice, and Truth……(including baptism)

Anything outside of the Word (regarding the Word) is man’s conjecture and for the most part worthless…..

Why would I trust anything outside of the truth to instruct me in righteousness if the Word has given me all things that pertain to life and godliness? (2Pe 1:3)

Yeah, but there's a scene in it where Saint Paul says, "Come let us reason together." Have you ever done that, either in your prayer life or your contractual religious life? Have you ever done that in your social or civic life? Because when it comes to religious law, the reasons are found in the history part of the Bible, as they relate to the life, actions and teachings of the historical Jesus of Nazareth.

 

[Flannery]

*Cannon Law: only follow if backed by the bible
*Favorite Doctorine of faith: repent and be baptized
*Baptism: full emerson of the body as the purpose of baptism is to be buried with Yashua and rise with Him from the water and now with the Holy Spirit.
*Resurrections: Revelation speaks of 2 resurrectionsthe saints in the first one and then the Great White Throne Judgement
*Not Sunday: My faith practices Sabbath, per the bible. Man moved it from Sabbath to Sunday, not Yashua or the apostles, over 300 hundred years after Yashua died.
We practice the 7 Feast days, follow the biblical laws & commandments. Follow Old & New Testament as they do not contradict each other, they clarify each other.

That's great. As far as canon law, it's a given that it's only canon law if it comes from the Bible. I'll forget the semantic linguistics quibble. Mind you, if we were crusaders, the cannon part would literally mean gun, and we'd be shot for treason if we committed blasphemy by violating a cannon law. But that was in Europe in the context of crusader armies during the dark ages.

Repent and be baptized is good. Tell me your opinion. Jesus was baptized by John, now He didn't need to repent? Where do you stand on the alleged sacrament of confession and penance?

 

[Flannery]

-

Because without this, there is no Christianity.

= Romans 5

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the GIFT of righteousness<<<< shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ

You're such a republican! That is the substance of American innocence. Since the Constitutional government said to us, this or that is right or wrong, by faith are we made holy in that we obey the feds. That is the Doctrine of the Law, literally speaking. Religiously the basis for the doctrine of faith alone is in the Psalm which begins, "I was glad when they said, come to the Sabbath and worship in the Synagogue".

 

[Flannery]

But you can’t defend exegesis as Truth…. it may be, it may not be ….it is an explanation or interpretation of a text (scripture) by man………… Logical is subjective.

Beautiful! a defense of the real presence! Spiritual exegesis depends on the appearance of Jesus Christ to the exegete personally as to John the Baptist!

 

[Gideon300]

I was just thinking about the definition of the word "Doctrine". A doctrine is a teaching in the context that such and such is the law, and it has a exegetical proof. The first mediaeval scholastic to write a complete treatise on doctrine after the Cardinal's meeting that set the cannon at a certain number of books listed in the table of contents was a man by the name of Peter Abelard, and I've never had the time or scholarly recourses to find out what a Crusader Knight sort thought was a full list of the Biblical doctrines. (Another expression for Biblical Doctrine is Cannon Law).

I'm all for faith, I know it gets abused in modern America, both in raucous political debates over the secular setting of the government and in accounting, but I'm grown up enough and well-read enough to have a solid understanding of the textbook and stable enough in both literary scholarship and temporal affairs that I know what faith is. I'm interested in finding out what some of the doctrines are that people study in their prayer devotions and in their churches. The premier doctrine in historic Christianity is the Doctrine of Divinity, a religious law which states simply that "Jesus Christ is divine." This one is the basis of a sober seminary and answers the philosophical question "why" as to any further social practice for people who mean to sign up and practice within and individual denomination.

What is your favorite doctrine of the faith, and why? For example, Baptist believers focus on the immersion in the water as an outward mark of dedication to Christianity. What do you believe about the Doctrine of Baptism? What are some of your Bible stories that you meditate on in connection with it? The Red Sea parting? Naaman and the Syrian? Pool of Salome in the Gospels?

Where do you stand on the doctrine of the Resurrection? How many resurrections are there going to be, one or two? If there is only one, then all will be judged together, but if there are two, of the saved and the lost, then we might be all presorted and predestined.

How many doctrines does your church embrace and teach from the pulpit on Sunday morning? What are some of them? I'm very interested to know, because your church doctrines are to the Bible as the National Amendments are to the United States Constitution (a doctrine is an overarching law and ruling principle of the faith, remember)? Let's hear some of them, and their scriptural basis.

I have a number that some find controversial.

1. There are more than one "salvations". The first is from the penalty of sin. Sadly, many Christians know only this one. The second is the salvation of the soul. This is stated in James 1:21 and 1 Peter 1:19. We will also be delivered from the natural, physical body. Only the salvation of the soul is conditional on our willingness to submit to the authority of Jesus throughout our lives.
2. Denominations are man made works of self. They are not recognised by God. 1 Corinthians 1: 10-12
3. The pyramid leadership model of church life is not biblical
4. The role of Pastor is much over emphasised. The word pastor appears twice in the NT
5. Disunity is a great blight on the church (psalm 133)
6. God works primarily through the "remnant", those who are totally consecrated to the Lordship of Christ, who are true disciples who count the cost and carry their cross.
7. (You'll love this one) Right doctrine is far less important than right life. I have much better fellowship with the local Anglican pastor than with a Charismatic Baptist minister. I agree more with Baptist doctrine. My Anglican brother and I can agree to disagree, but he loves Jesus and people and that's fine by me.

 

[Flannery]

I have a number that some find controversial.

1. There are more than one "salvations". The first is from the penalty of sin. Sadly, many Christians know only this one. The second is the salvation of the soul. This is stated in James 1:21 and 1 Peter 1:19. We will also be delivered from the natural, physical body. Only the salvation of the soul is conditional on our willingness to submit to the authority of Jesus throughout our lives.
2. Denominations are man made works of self. They are not recognised by God. 1 Corinthians 1: 10-12
3. The pyramid leadership model of church life is not biblical
4. The role of Pastor is much over emphasised. The word pastor appears twice in the NT
5. Disunity is a great blight on the church (psalm 133)
6. God works primarily through the "remnant", those who are totally consecrated to the Lordship of Christ, who are true disciples who count the cost and carry their cross.
7. (You'll love this one) Right doctrine is far less important than right life. I have much better fellowship with the local Anglican pastor than with a Charismatic Baptist minister. I agree more with Baptist doctrine. My Anglican brother and I can agree to disagree, but he loves Jesus and people and that's fine by me.

The pyramid model of church leadership? I bet hats a deep, deep subject. The pyramids don't appear in the Bible under that name, it says "the Hebrews were made to serve with rigor". That's bigger than it looks in current math classes with an emphasis on rigor and in some alternative secret society places I've had the misfortune to stumble upon.

The remanent is something I'm curious about too. the remnant of the faithful after what? I've heard of the great shaking, and the time of trouble, and the tribulation. And this is something to do with earthly court judgements before the spiritual judgement at the second coming by Jesus Christ? The remnant after this time of tribulation (a tribunal is a court), which happens on earth, will be saved at the last judgement? That's deep. Almost every country has tribunals or courts of some kind, how internationalist is the Bible under that reading?

 

[Gideon300]

The pyramid model of church leadership? I bet hats a deep, deep subject. The pyramids don't appear in the Bible under that name, it says "the Hebrews were made to serve with rigor". That's bigger than it looks in current math classes with an emphasis on rigor and in some alternative secret society places I've had the misfortune to stumble upon.

The remanent is something I'm curious about too. the remnant of the faithful after what? I've heard of the great shaking, and the time of trouble, and the tribulation. And this is something to do with earthly court judgements before the spiritual judgement at the second coming by Jesus Christ? The remnant after this time of tribulation (a tribunal is a court), which happens on earth, will be saved at the last judgement? That's deep. Almost every country has tribunals or courts of some kind, how internationalist is the Bible under that reading?

The pyramid model refers to the top-down leadership style. Most churches have a pastor, maybe an associate and they mostly carry the burden of serving the church. Elders exist but usually to keep the pastor in line. I've known pastors who are in effect 24/7 slaves to the whims of their congregation. It's no wonder burn out is a problem.

Paul never wrote to the Pastor. He wrote to the church. Lord Jesus spoke to the 7 churches in Asia, not to their Pastors. Sure, Paul wrote to Timothy and Titus, but they were not pastors. James, Peter and John likewise mostly addressed the church generally.

Protestantism has yet to break free of this hangover from Catholicism. Some churches have broken free, especially in persecuted parts of the world. One of the reasons the church in China still prevails is that there are so many in each assembly that can accept leadership responsibility if a recognised leader is imprisoned.

The remnant principle is found in the OT. One example is Gideon. God told him to go to war but his army was just 300 men. They were selected for a certain characteristic that set them apart. Another is found in the account of Elijah. He was complaining that he was the only prophet left. God told him that there were 7,000 in Israel who had not bowed the knee to Baal. You've find this in 1 Kings 19.

Disciples of Christ are always born again believers. Born again believers are not always disciples. That's regrettable and such believers are least in God's kingdom. Unfortunately, the modern church mostly keeps Christians spiritual infants and rarely allows their gifts to be exercised. As one most influential Aussie pastor said to me, "You have to be a member for two years before we let you hand out the hymnbooks". It's one of the reasons that so many Christians are in effect nomads. They are unable to find their place in the Body of Christ. One day, this will change. Jesus is building His church and He will prevail, in spite of the best that man can do!

 

[Flannery]

The pyramid model refers to the top-down leadership style. Most churches have a pastor, maybe an associate and they mostly carry the burden of serving the church. Elders exist but usually to keep the pastor in line. I've known pastors who are in effect 24/7 slaves to the whims of their congregation. It's no wonder burn out is a problem.

Paul never wrote to the Pastor. He wrote to the church. Lord Jesus spoke to the 7 churches in Asia, not to their Pastors. Sure, Paul wrote to Timothy and Titus, but they were not pastors. James, Peter and John likewise mostly addressed the church generally.

Protestantism has yet to break free of this hangover from Catholicism. Some churches have broken free, especially in persecuted parts of the world. One of the reasons the church in China still prevails is that there are so many in each assembly that can accept leadership responsibility if a recognised leader is imprisoned.

The remnant principle is found in the OT. One example is Gideon. God told him to go to war but his army was just 300 men. They were selected for a certain characteristic that set them apart. Another is found in the account of Elijah. He was complaining that he was the only prophet left. God told him that there were 7,000 in Israel who had not bowed the knee to Baal. You've find this in 1 Kings 19.

Disciples of Christ are always born again believers. Born again believers are not always disciples. That's regrettable and such believers are least in God's kingdom. Unfortunately, the modern church mostly keeps Christians spiritual infants and rarely allows their gifts to be exercised. As one most influential Aussie pastor said to me, "You have to be a member for two years before we let you hand out the hymnbooks". It's one of the reasons that so many Christians are in effect nomads. They are unable to find their place in the Body of Christ. One day, this will change. Jesus is building His church and He will prevail, in spite of the best that man can do!

Oh, born again? from the conversation of Jesus Christ with Nicodemus. Yes, baptism of the water and of the spirit. It's always the spirit part that people spend the wind arguing about in debates. A baptism by immersion can be seen, recorded and even photographed. But the spiritual part people really debate, because it's related to their individual encounters with Jesus. As in when you saw Christ, can you be sure that He was the Messiah spoken of in the Scriptures, and how do I know or how does the buttinsky at City Hall now, if that's even legal for City Hall to examine.

 

[Magenta]

Jesus was baptized by John, now He didn't need to repent?

Jesus was baptized in order to "fulfill all righteousness"... because priests who were ordained
to bear the sins of Israel, were baptized as part of their consecration ritual as per instructions
given to Moses by God. Immediately following His baptism, Jesus began His ministry, being
about thirty years of age, as was the age priests likewise began their ministry.

 

[Gideon300]

Oh, born again? from the conversation of Jesus Christ with Nicodemus. Yes, baptism of the water and of the spirit. It's always the spirit part that people spend the wind arguing about in debates. A baptism by immersion can be seen, recorded and even photographed. But the spiritual part people really debate, because it's related to their individual encounters with Jesus. As in when you saw Christ, can you be sure that He was the Messiah spoken of in the Scriptures, and how do I know or how does the buttinsky at City Hall now, if that's even legal for City Hall to examine.

Funnily enough, I'm writing an article I call "The Road to Emmaus". It goes into the references to Jesus in the Old Testament. The title is taken from the conversation that the risen Lord had with two disciples. I have God's word to go on as well as my own experience.

Do you reject the notion of being born again? As to not being a concrete, observable thing, that is exactly what Jesus said to Nicodemus.

 

[Flannery]

Jesus was baptized in order to "fulfill all righteousness"... because priests who were ordained
to bear the sins of Israel, were baptized as part of their consecration ritual as per instructions
given to Moses by God. Immediately following His baptism, Jesus began His ministry, being
about thirty years of age, as was the age priests likewise began their ministry.

Well, to you, does "fulfill all righteousness" mean fulfilling all the Jewish sacraments, or something else? Because the Temple Duties of Israel were acts, including baptism, and confession, as well as other signs before the head of household could enter the courtyard and have his lamb sacrificed by the High Priest for his personal atonement and that of his family. I now translation is a bug, but I'm pointing this out for two reasons, one is that Deuteronomy (requirements for the laity) and Leviticus (requirements for the priesthood) are the basis of the sacramental system in Christianity today, including in modern American protestant Bible churches. This in conjunction with the rending of the temple curtain at the time of Christ's death and the sacrificial system of the literal sheep ending for the Christian after the crucifixion and resurrection is a big theological area, I just wanted to inquire and find full knowledge.

 

[Flannery]

Funnily enough, I'm writing an article I call "The Road to Emmaus". It goes into the references to Jesus in the Old Testament. The title is taken from the conversation that the risen Lord had with two disciples. I have God's word to go on as well as my own experience.

Do you reject the notion of being born again? As to not being a concrete, observable thing, that is exactly what Jesus said to Nicodemus.

I'm all set for Born Again faith as long as some modernist hipster doesn't confuse me with a Buddhist (it isn't Eastern Reincarnation).

 

[Flannery]

I have a number that some find controversial.

1. There are more than one "salvations". The first is from the penalty of sin. Sadly, many Christians know only this one. The second is the salvation of the soul. This is stated in James 1:21 and 1 Peter 1:19. We will also be delivered from the natural, physical body. Only the salvation of the soul is conditional on our willingness to submit to the authority of Jesus throughout our lives.
2. Denominations are man made works of self. They are not recognised by God. 1 Corinthians 1: 10-12
3. The pyramid leadership model of church life is not biblical
4. The role of Pastor is much over emphasised. The word pastor appears twice in the NT
5. Disunity is a great blight on the church (psalm 133)
6. God works primarily through the "remnant", those who are totally consecrated to the Lordship of Christ, who are true disciples who count the cost and carry their cross.
7. (You'll love this one) Right doctrine is far less important than right life. I have much better fellowship with the local Anglican pastor than with a Charismatic Baptist minister. I agree more with Baptist doctrine. My Anglican brother and I can agree to disagree, but he loves Jesus and people and that's fine by me.

Why is the role of the pastor overemphasized, or should I ask how and in what way instead? I know that there are more spiritual gifts. Do you usually find in churches that one or more of the others are missing or suppressed by the ordained preacher? Which ones? And what do you feel is missing because of the suppression?