Calvin did not invent the doctrines of grace

[rogerg]

I told you my understanding and you reject. so be it.

I reject it because that is not what Christ said nor His intent.

If they could "hear spiritually" they would not have needed the Lord Jesus Christ to explain the meaning to them as shown later in Matt 13.

The ones who listened up! and paid attention! were just as ignorant of the meaning of the parables as the ones who left to go their own way.

No, Christ, while He was on the earth, for His disciples and those whom God willed to hear through Him, He was the Holy Spirit, the Comforter. He fulfilled that role in making them to know and to have faith in the gospel.

[Jhn 14:16, 26 KJV]
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; ...
26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Read the verses again, rogerg. I didn't write the Book and you appear to be rewriting it in order to fit a preconceived notion you have come up with:

2 Corinthians 3:15-16 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it [the heart of the reader/hearer] shall turn [verb, active] to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away [verb, passive].

It says "when it shall turn"; but it doesn't state why it shall turn. But the turning was not a cause of their salvation - no one can be saved by any of their own actions. Instead, for those who turn, they do so from salvation (not to salvation) with turning coming as its effect. With the verse stating, "when it shall turn", it means at which time - or as - it turns; that is, the veil is lifting WHILE they are turning to Christ. This is the same for everyone who becomes saved - spiritual wisdom about Christ grows when/while God turns us towards Christ with the veil on our hearts being lifted from that- a never ending, continuing process throughout life, but one only given by God and only so as a gift.

[Eph 1:17 KJV] 17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the
knowledge of him:

Matt 13:15 specifically states their eyes have they closed. There is no mention of satan having closed their eyes.

When you conflate what is written in Matt 13:15 with what is written in 2 Cor 4:4, you change the meaning in Matt from people closing their own eyes (as is stated) to satan closing their eyes.

In effect, you are giving people who close their own eyes an excuse. Those who close their own eyes are without excuse.

No, both are speaking of exactly the same thing. They are deaf and blind BECAUSE Satan made it so. If Satan blinded the
minds of those who believe not, then their closed eyes was from that - Satan's blinding is the cause of all.

I never said that ... I never implied that ... I believe born again believers can be taught inaccurate renderings in Scripture, which is why God warns us over and over that we need to be careful:

That is called the edification of the saints, by which they grow in wisdom, so that they become aware of those errors beforehand to not make them. But given that no one is saved by their works, the elect can never lose their salvation. Nevertheless, for those who are saved, or who will become saved, they will never be moved from faith in Christ as their Saviour because it is God Himself who takes responsibility for keeping that faith alive within them:

[1Pe 1:4-5 KJV]
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

I showed you that in vs 9 when the Lord Jesus Christ said who hath ears to hear, let him hear which means "listen up! pay attention!". Those who did not listen up and/or pay attention were those who went their own way after the Lord Jesus Christ was finished teaching. If they would have continued with Him, He would have explained the parables to them as well. However, they rejected His invitation and so they closed their own eyes and were unable to hear the explanation He gave to those who did not leave ... those who stayed to further hear what Jesus had to say after He told them to listen up! pay attention!

No, listen up and pay attention is NOT the same as giving an order to those with ears to hear to comprehend Him, and trying to make it so is an injustice to that verse and other like verses. You just can't get there from here. That kind of interpretation is solely of your own making, with no scriptural basis for it that I can find. Instead, its intent is only that those who are given ears to heat can and will hear and understand. Those who did not continue with Christ did not because it was not intended that they should; that is, it wasn't given to them to know the mysteries of the kingdom as they were not of the elect. That is why we are informed that those who had ears to hear and eyes to see, were blessed in order to have them. IOW, for them to be able to see and hear, they first had to be blessed by God - but not everyone is.

[Mat 13:16 KJV] 16 But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

[Mar 4:11-12 KJV]
11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all [these] things are done in parables:
12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and [their] sins should be forgiven them.

[Luk 8:10 KJV]
10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

not true ... the Lord Jesus Christ is the Subject of Scripture from Genesis to Revelation. If/when we take the focus off of Him in reading Scripture, we will not fully understand or comprehend what is written.

When we keep the Lord Jesus Christ as the focus, we read Scripture with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord and we are being changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord – 2 Cor 3:18.

I think I can agree with that if by "keep the Lord Jesus Christ as focus" you mean that the whole Bible was written about Christ as the Saviour and that we should look for Him in it implicitly and/or explicitly throughout as its foundation.

 

[glf]

Grace and faith work hand in hand to obtain the blessing!

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Scripture is one of the means in which God reaches out to mankind ... and that is God "making the first move" so to speak as far as "calling" out to the lost and the sinners ... you do know this, yes?

Those spiritually dead cannot respond to a "first move" - to be able to do that, they must first be given spiritual life, and spiritual life comes with salvation

rogerg, you need to read Scripture and ask God to reveal to you how it is possible for those who are spiritually dead to respond to Him.

Romans 1:

15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

In vs 15, the gospel is preached (it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching - 1 Cor 1:21).

In vs 16, we see that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth.

The gospel is preached and for those who do not suppress the truth in unrighteousness (vs 18), the gospel is believed and the gospel is the power of God unto salvation.

These verses do not state that those who believe cannot respond to a "first move" ... that "they must first be given spiritual life, and spiritual life comes with salvation". They turn to God when the gospel is preached. And in turning to God, that is their response to God having made the "first move" in their life ... and it is at this point that God works within and the believer is made spiritually alive (i.e. born again).


Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

In vs 18, the words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to suppress, restrain. And the verb is active, which means the person suppresses/restrains.

These verses do not say the person rejects because he or she can only respond after he or she has been "given spiritual life". They reject because they restrain the truth. They turn from God to a lie. And in turning from God, that is their response to God having made the "first move" in their life.


You are adding concepts to Scripture which are not contained in the text.

Quit arguing with God and do as He instructs. Turn your heart to the Lord Jesus Christ and see Him in every book of the Bible ... from Genesis to Revelation ... and then see how much of God's Word opens up to you as you read with purpose and with unveiled heart. So then, faith by hearing and hearing by the Word of God – Rom 10:17).

The arguing is yours and is because you do not understand/believe in grace as fundamental to, and a requirement of, the gospel, but instead is in your own works. If you don't read the Bible following its instruction, then you won't its truth.

I know what grace is and I understand that if not for God's grace, all mankind would be destined for the lake of fire.

You consider faith on the part of mankind to be "your own works". What you have yet to learn and understand is that Scripture tells us faith is not works.

The "hearing" of Rom 10:17, is spiritual hearing, not human hearing. It comes only in conjunction with being born-again, which comes from being saved - it is not of man's doing nor can be heard (comprehended) with man's ears.

That is not what is written in Scripture, rogerg. Because you rip verses out of Scripture without considering the context within which the verse is placed by the Author of Scripture, you turn from the truth to your own "private interpretation" as to what is meant by faith by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Romans 10:

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

When the Word of God is preached, people respond by either calling on Him (vs 14), or they do not obey the gospel (vs 16).

You add conditions ("spiritual" hearing) which God does not mention and in so doing, you manipulate the text. According to you, a person must be born again before he or she can "hear" Scripture by which he or she is born again. Under your dogma, how many times must a person be born again before he or she is really, truly, really, really, really, scout's honor born again???

Read the verses again, rogerg. I didn't write the Book and you appear to be rewriting it in order to fit a preconceived notion you have come up with:

2 Corinthians 3:15-16 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it [the heart of the reader/hearer] shall turn [verb, active] to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away [verb, passive].

ONLY GOD CAN TURN THE HEART.

So, then, according to you, the verb is passive ... even though in reality, the verb is active.

I am not going to further argue this point with you, rogerg. I have stated my understanding and you have stated your understanding. No need for further discussion.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Scripture is the "something external to themselves". And Scripture is God making the first move in reaching out to mankind.

No, God must cause them to change first.

Now you're telling God how He must reach out to mankind? Seriously rogerg???

Scripture is God making the first move. You can deny all you want, but that is truth.

Until and unless He does so, the gospel will be lost on them. See 1 Co 2:14 - it cannot be made any clearer than does that verse. Why are you so unable to comprehend or accept it?

1 Cor 2:14 does not refer to the gospel. 1 Cor 2:14 refers to the mystery, the hidden wisdom ... the deeper spiritual matters which Paul was able to discuss among more mature believers:

Paul tells us in 1 Cor 2:6 those with whom he was able to discuss the mystery, the hidden wisdom ... and not just the mystery, the hidden wisdom but also the things which ...

Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man the things which God hath prepared for them that love him (1 Cor 2:9)

are freely given to us of God (1 Cor 2:12)

the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual (1 Cor 2:13)

... and, again, according to 1 Cor 2:6, Paul spoke of these things with those who were mature, of full age:

1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect [Greek teleios = mature, of full age]: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought

The "things" to which 1 Cor 2:14 relate go beyond the scope of the gospel ... Jesus Christ, and Him crucified spoken of in 1 Cor 2:2.

You again rip a verse from its context and present an opinion that is not supported by Scripture:

2 Peter 1:20-21 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

2 Peter 1:20 relates to the Scripture writings.

The first thing we are to know about Scripture is that the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

God wrote Scripture and He used holy men to write it.

Read Jeremiah 36 for a full understanding of 2 Peter 1:20-21.

Having said that, we are to understand words within verses, verses within immediate context, immediate context within remote context, and all Scripture is to fit together with no contradictions.

No, it is not to be read that way!

What does 2 Peter 1:20 mean about interpreting Scripture?​

​

Second Peter 1:20 says, "Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation of things." Actually, 2 Peter 1:20 emphasizes the source of Old Testament prophecies, not who has the right to interpret the Bible today.​

​

Some Bible versions do not make this clear. The NAS, for example, says that prophecy is not "a matter of one's own interpretation," and the KJV says Scripture is not "of any private interpretation." However, Peter was not writing about how we should read or interpret God's Word; he was writing about how God gave us His Word in the first place. In order to persuade his readers to pay attention to the gospel, Peter affirmed that his words were God's words—just as much as the Old Testament prophecies were.​

​

Peter's meaning in verse 20 is further explained by the context: "We did not follow cleverly devised stories . . . but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. . . . We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven. . . . We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable. . . . No prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will" (2 Peter 1:16–21).​

Notice that Peter's main point is not how to read and understand God's messages. Instead, he explains the authoritative origin and source of those prophecies. It was God Himself who communicated them through His chosen spokesmen. The prophets (and Peter) did not write thoughts that they cooked up out of their own minds, but they passed on truth that came directly from God. As Peter puts it, they "spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit" (verse 21).​

​

Peter's intent was to urge his readers to take his message about Jesus seriously, as he says in verse 19, "You [therefore] will do well to pay attention to [God's message through me], as to a light shining in a dark place." Peter's account of Jesus was straight from God.​

​

Since the Bible's words express God's thoughts, not man's, it is important that we respect them enough to study them and grasp what He wants us to understand as we are interpreting Scripture.​

https://www.gotquestions.org/interpreting-Scripture.html​

We are to be like the Bereans who searched the Scriptures daily whether those things [the things Paul and Silas taught] were so – Acts 17:11.

Read your last sentence again more closely. The Bereans searched "the Scriptures" - they searched all of the Scriptures - to find whether a doctrine is "so". They did not cease their search at individual verses, nor accept that as final a confirmation, but sought to validate against the WHOLE bible.

Please point out the error in the statement:

we are to understand words within verses, verses within immediate context, immediate context within remote context, and all Scripture is to fit together with no contradictions.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

There are only two possible options: 1) that man of himself can come to spiritual understanding or, 2) that it only comes by God.

In Genesis 1:1 we read In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth.

You either believe what is written or you do not believe what is written.

If you believe what is written, God works in the heart and brings increase (1 Cor 3:6-7).

If you do not believe what is written, you hold the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18) and there is no increase ... and if you continue to hold the truth in unrighteousness, read further in Romans 1 to see that 1) the foolish heart becomesdarkened (Rom 1:21) ... and if you continue further away from God, 2) God gives you up to uncleanness (Rom 1:24) ... and if you continue 3) God give you up unto vile affections (Rom 1:26) ... and if you continue further 4) God gives you over to a reprobate mind.

However, according to you, a person cannot "spiritually hear" Gen 1:1 unless he or she is born again so God can work within him or her.

Did you not say that when someone turns to the Lord (of themselves), THEN the is veil removed from their heart - meaning that as a natural man they can of themselves turn

Read the verse and believe what God wrote:

2 Corinthians 3:16 Nevertheless when it [the heart of the reader] shall turn [verb – active] to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away [verb – passive].

I did not write the book and I am not going to argue with the Author or change what He wrote.

That you can state ... "the veil would first have to be first be lifted" (Post 528) when God specifically states when it [the heart] shall turn [verb active] to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away [verb passive] ... that is you changing the order of what is written in your attempt to align Scripture with your dogma ... that is you arguing with God ... and that is you suppressing the truth in unrighteousness.

1 Corinthians 2:14 relates to the mystery, the hidden wisdom, as well as other spiritual matters which go beyond the scope of the gospel.

When you read the full chapter, you see that Paul refers to the gospel in vss 1-2.

Then, in vs 6, Paul begins to discuss deeper spiritual truths which he was able to share with more mature believers (the them that are perfect – meaning of full age – of 1 Cor 2:6). And this discussion of the deeper spiritual matters continues to the end of the chapter.

Then in 1 Cor 3:1, Paul again discusses those things which he could only speak to younger believers the babes in Christ who needed to be fed with milk and not with meat (1 Cor 3:1-2).

we can see in 1 Co 2:14 (and in many like other like verses), that natural (unsaved) man of himself, cannot know the things of God - it is ANY of the things of God - they do NOT state, either explicitly or implicitly, that Paul was speaking about Christians new to the faith or of ancillary doctrines - and you should not have trivialized it into that - you were frivolous and careless with the Bible.

Since you claim to have read 1 Cor 2 "many times", then you should know what is written in 1 Cor 2:6.

1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought

The words "are perfect" are translated from the Greek word téleios which means mature, of full age. Paul specifically states that he and other more mature spoke wisdom amongst themselves. These discussions were not held in the regular church congregation.

You don't believe that? Fine by me, but don't continue to tell me that 1 Cor 2:14 relates to the gospel when 1 Cor 2:6-16 specifically relates to spiritual matters which go beyond the scope of the gospel:

vs 6 – the wisdom which was discussed among the mature believers ... the gospel was taught in the general congregation (vss 1-2).

vs 7 – the wisdom of God in a mystery ... this wisdom was kept secret since the world began (Rom 16:25); and in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men (Eph 3:5); and from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God (Eph 3:9); and which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest (Col 1:26). Please understand, the gospel was never hid ... the gospel is proclaimed throughout all of Scripture from Genesis to Revelation.

vs 8 – if the devil and his minions had known the mystery, the hidden wisdom, they never would have crucified the Lord Jesus Christ.

vs 9 – the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).

vs 10 – the deep things of God go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel). The gospel is considered milk upon which the new believer (indeed, all believers) is to desire so that he/she may grow thereby... the mystery, the hidden wisdom is (scripturally) considered to be strong meat.

vs 11 – the things of God which no man knoweth go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).

vs 12 – the things that are freely given to us of God go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).

vs 13 – things which the Holy Ghost teacheth go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).

vs 14 – the things of the Spirit of God and specifically the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).

The "hidden wisdom":

[Col 1:2 KJV]
2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

[Col 2:2-3 KJV]
2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

These verses actually substantiate what I have been telling you ... that the mystery, the hidden wisdom is not the same as the gospel and that 1 Cor 2:14 relates to the mystery, the hidden wisdom.

The gospel is the Lord Jesus Christ and Him crucified and resurrected from the dead on the third day. The gospel is revealed in Scripture from Genesis to Revelation ... and was never hid.

The mystery, the hidden wisdom was hid in God until God revealed it to Paul:

Until God revealed the mystery, the hidden wisdom to Paul, this wisdom was kept secret since the world began:

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began


Until God revealed the mystery, the hidden wisdom to Paul, this wisdom was not made known:

Ephesians 3:4-5 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit


Until God revealed the mystery, the hidden wisdom to Paul, this mystery was hid in God from the beginning of the world:

Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ


Until God revealed the mystery, the hidden wisdom to Paul, this mystery was hid from ages and from generations:

Colossians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints


Again, the gospel was never hid.

The mystery, the hidden wisdom was hid in God from the beginning of the world until God revealed it to Paul.

Quit conflating the gospel with the mystery, the hidden wisdom.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You do know that Scripture is God's Word (all Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness – 2 Tim 3:16), yes?

And that Scripture is one of the means in which God reaches out to mankind ... and that is God "making the first move" so to speak as far as "calling" out to the lost and the sinners ... you do know this, yes?

And that God's Word is quick [lifegiving] and powerful ... piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit ... and is a discerner of the thoughts and intent of the heart, yes?

Yes, I know that ALL Scripture is from God - what do you mean by "one of the means"? What else is there?

Do you not know?

We have the foolishness of preaching:

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Scripture is God's words to mankind and we know Scripture is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works (2 Tim 3:16-17).

We are either going to pick up the book and read it or we will have God's Word preached to us.


We also have the creation:

Psalm 19:1-3 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse

In viewing the heavens, the majestic display of God's glory and His eternal power and Godhead, a person is to be drawn to the Creator.

Sadly the Creator is ignored as people suppress the truth in unrighteousness and turn to evolution, which is nothing but mankind's foolish attempt to explain that which he or she has no capacity to understand if/when he or she turns from the Creator.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I told you my understanding and you reject. so be it.

I reject it because that is not what Christ said nor His intent.

Whenever Jesus says, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear,” He is calling for people to pay careful heed. It’s another way of saying, “Listen up! Pay close attention!” Speaking in parables was one way in which Jesus sought to gain the attention of the crowds — people love stories, and the parables depicted events and characters with which they could readily relate. But unless they were willing to tune out other distractions and come to Jesus to understand the meaning of His preaching, His words would be only empty stories. They needed more than ears, however keen they were; they needed ears to hear.​

​

When asked by His disciples why He was speaking to the crowds in parables, Jesus refers to Isaiah 6, which speaks of people who have eyes and ears, yet who have hardened their hearts and chosen to ignore the Word of the Lord (Matthew 13:10-15; cf. Isaiah 6:8-10). Part of the judgment on those who refuse to believe is that they will eventually lose their opportunity to believe: “Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them” (Matthew 13:12; cf. Romans 1:18-32).​

https://www.gotquestions.org/he-who-has-ears-to-hear.html​

If they could "hear spiritually" they would not have needed the Lord Jesus Christ to explain the meaning to them as shown later in Matt 13.

The ones who listened up! and paid attention! were just as ignorant of the meaning of the parables as the ones who left to go their own way.

No, Christ, while He was on the earth, for His disciples and those whom God willed to hear through Him, He was the Holy Spirit, the Comforter. He fulfilled that role in making them to know and to have faith in the gospel.

[Jhn 14:16, 26 KJV]

There you go again, rogerg. You do not like what is written in the context of Matthew 13, so you jump to a completely unrelated passage in Scripture in order to explain away that which Scripture tells us.

In doing so, you reveal your complete disinterest in what God's Word reveals.

Read the verses again, rogerg. I didn't write the Book and you appear to be rewriting it in order to fit a preconceived notion you have come up with:

2 Corinthians 3:15-16 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it[the heart of the reader/hearer] shall turn [verb, active] to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away [verb, passive].

It says "when it shall turn"; but it doesn't state why it shall turn. But the turning was not a cause of their salvation - no one can be saved by any of their own actions. Instead, for those who turn, they do so from salvation (not to salvation) with turning coming as its effect. With the verse stating, "when it shall turn", it means at which time - or as - it turns; that is, the veil is lifting WHILE they are turning to Christ. This is the same for everyone who becomes saved - spiritual wisdom about Christ grows when/while God turns us towards Christ with the veil on our hearts being lifted from that- a never ending, continuing process throughout life, but one only given by God and only so as a gift.

iow, you do not like the way the Author of Scripture wrote the verse, so you're going to take it upon yourself to tell me that what God really meant to say was that He turns the heart ... even though the verse clearly states that it is their heart (vs 15) that turns (and turns is verb, active – which means that it is the subject of the verb – or their heart of vs 15).

I will read the verse exactly as written.

What you do with God's Word is something you will answer to God for in due time.

Matt 13:15 specifically states their eyes have they closed. There is no mention of satan having closed their eyes.

When you conflate what is written in Matt 13:15 with what is written in 2 Cor 4:4, you change the meaning in Matt from people closing their own eyes (as is stated) to satan closing their eyes.

In effect, you are giving people who close their own eyes an excuse. Those who close their own eyes are without excuse.

No, both are speaking of exactly the same thing. They are deaf and blind BECAUSE Satan made it so. If Satan blinded the
minds of those who believe not, then their closed eyes was from that - Satan's blinding is the cause of all.

nope ... both are not speaking of the same thing.

Matthew 13:15 specifically states that they closed their own eyes. The Lord Jesus Christ did not state that "satan blinded them so they closed their eyes". The Lord Jesus Christ specifically stated and their eyes they have closed.

You can go with satan ... I'll stick with what the Lord Jesus Christ says.

I never said that ... I never implied that ... I believe born again believers can be taught inaccurate renderings in Scripture, which is why God warns us over and over that we need to be careful

That is called the edification of the saints

No it is not edification. They are warnings to God's people.

Nevertheless, for those who are saved, or who will become saved, they will never be moved from faith in Christ as their Saviour

That is not the point of the warnings. The warnings are given so that the believer pays attention to what is being taught to them so they do not turn from the truth of Scripture to some other doctrine.

Galatians 3:1 states O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that you should not obey the truth ... This verse states that they had turned from the truth. It does not mean they weren't born again, but they had turned from the truth and were not living in light of all that is available to the believer in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 4:14 states be no more children, tossed to and roe, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive. Again, believers can be deceived and not live in light of who they are in the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 2:2 states and many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. When a believer falls prey to false teaching, the result is the way of truth shall be evil spoken of ... I do not want my behavior to result in the way of truth being evil spoken of.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I showed you that in vs 9 when the Lord Jesus Christ said who hath ears to hear, let him hear which means "listen up! pay attention!". Those who did not listen up and/or pay attention were those who went their own way after the Lord Jesus Christ was finished teaching. If they would have continued with Him, He would have explained the parables to them as well. However, they rejected His invitation and so they closed their own eyes and were unable to hear the explanation He gave to those who did not leave ... those who stayed to further hear what Jesus had to say after He told them to listen up! pay attention!

No, listen up and pay attention is NOT the same as giving an order to those with ears to hear to comprehend Him, and trying to make it so is an injustice to that verse and other like verses. You just can't get there from here. That kind of interpretation is solely of your own making, with no scriptural basis for it that I can find.

Barne's Notes on the Bible

Who hath ears ... - This is a proverbial expression, implying that it was every man's duty to pay attention to what was spoken​

Meyer's NT Commentary

A request to give due attention to this important statement in Matthew 11:14. Comp. Matthew 13:9; Mark 4:9; Luke 8:8; Ezekiel 3:27​

Bengel's Gnomen

He that hath ears to hear, let him hear was a form of commanding attention peculiar to our Lord​

gotquestions.org

Whenever Jesus says, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear,” He is calling for people to pay careful heed. It’s another way of saying, “Listen up! Pay close attention!” Speaking in parables was one way in which Jesus sought to gain the attention of the crowds — people love stories, and the parables depicted events and characters with which they could readily relate. But unless they were willing to tune out other distractions and come to Jesus to understand the meaning of His preaching, His words would be only empty stories. They needed more than ears, however keen they were; they needed ears to hear.​

​

When asked by His disciples why He was speaking to the crowds in parables, Jesus refers to Isaiah 6, which speaks of people who have eyes and ears, yet who have hardened their hearts and chosen to ignore the Word of the Lord (Matthew 13:10-15; cf. Isaiah 6:8-10). Part of the judgment on those who refuse to believe is that they will eventually lose their opportunity to believe: “Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them” (Matthew 13:12; cf. Romans 1:18-32).​

.

 

[rogerg]

In Genesis 1:1 we read In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth.

You either believe what is written or you do not believe what is written.

Your reply makes no sense.

However, according to you, a person cannot "spiritually hear" Gen 1:1 unless he or she is born again so God can work within him or her.

Yes, they cannot hear. Read the following.

[Jhn 8:43, 47 KJV]
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. ...
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God.

[Jhn 10:25-29 KJV]
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.

Corinthians 3:16 Nevertheless when it [the heart of the reader] shall turn [verb – active] to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away [verb – passive].

I did not write the book and I am not going to argue with the Author or change what He wrote.

That you can state ... "the veil would first have to be first be lifted" (Post 528) when God specifically states when it [the heart] shall turn [verb active] to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away [verb passive] ... that is you changing the order of what is written in your attempt to align Scripture with your dogma ... that is you arguing with God ... and that is you suppressing the truth in unrighteousness.

You are the one changing it.

"WHEN IT SHALL TURN", is not "AFTER IT SHALL TURN". "shall turn" is aorist- it is a continuing process. Nevertheless, even if your interpretation is correct (which it isn't) the verse is not saying their turning saved them. They became saved first, and as a result, they turn. You see, (or think you see), the "what" but you are unable to consider or think the "how" or "why" germane.

1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought

The words "are perfect" are translated from the Greek word téleios which means mature, of full age. Paul specifically states that he and other more mature spoke wisdom amongst themselves. These discussions were not held in the regular church congregation.

No, it does NOT mean what you've posted. It means those who have become spiritually completed; that is, saved. Only those saved
know the hidden wisdom. They cannot know before then. The gospel is, and remains, hidden to all of the unsaved.

Again, the gospel was never hid.

The mystery, the hidden wisdom was hid in God from the beginning of the world until God revealed it to Paul.

Quit conflating the gospel with the mystery, the hidden wisdom.
.

The point is not when the hidden wisdom was made public, it is that only those saved can comprehend it.


Why is it so difficult for you to understand this? Here, read these verses closely. They are as clear as they can be - that unsaved
man CANNOT KNOW THE THINGS OF GOD, period. To know the things of God, the hidden things, one must first have received
the Holy Spirit. It is by Him alone that spiritual wisdom is given.

[1Co 2:12-14 KJV]
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[rogerg]

Whenever Jesus says, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear,” He is calling for people to pay careful heed. It’s another way of saying, “Listen up! Pay close attention!” Speaking in parables was one way in which Jesus sought to gain the attention of the crowds — people love stories, and the parables depicted events and characters with which they could readily relate. But unless they were willing to tune out other distractions and come to Jesus to understand the meaning of His preaching, His words would be only empty stories. They needed more than ears, however keen they were; they needed ears to hear.When asked by His disciples why He was speaking to the crowds in parables, Jesus refers to Isaiah 6, which speaks of people who have eyes and ears, yet who have hardened their hearts and chosen to ignore the Word of the Lord (Matthew 13:10-15; cf. Isaiah 6:8-10). Part of the judgment on those who refuse to believe is that they will eventually lose their opportunity to believe: “Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them” (Matthew 13:12; cf. Romans 1:18-32).

Oh my, are you sill trying to go with that? It just simply is not true or correct. I posted these verses to you previously -
that unless someone is "of God", they cannot "heareth God's words". It is not a question of listening up. Can it be any clearer?

[Jhn 8:43, 47 KJV]
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. ...
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God.

[Jhn 10:25-29 KJV]
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand

I will read the verse exactly as written.

What you do with God's Word is something you will answer to God for in due time.

You should really read the Bible only by using the instructions God set forth for understanding the Bible.
If you won't do it that way, then you will never be able to come to a correct interpretation. It cannot be
read the way any other book would be because God did not have it written to be understood in that way.

 

[rogerg]

rogerg, you need to read Scripture and ask God to reveal to you how it is possible for those who are spiritually dead to respond to Him.

I know how and it is explained here

[Eph 2:1 KJV] 1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;

IOW, they can't respond. To do so, they would have to be given spiritual life first, which means they had been saved.

God MUST not only reach out first, but He must also first make the person spiritually alive, by which they become saved and given a new heart, mind, and spirit. Unless and until God does that, the person will remain unsaved. It is all of God and nothing of ourselves.
That is the reason He has the title of Saviour, and we don't. Obviously, from your postings, you do not believe that He is.
So, as unbelieving in Christ, how can you perceive yourself a follower the Bible?

I'm not going to reply to your posts about the biblical interpretations of other people. I know what the Bible says so their opinions
mean nothing to me.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Your reply makes no sense.

Please read again with comprehension.

In Genesis 1:1 we read In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth.

Do you believe what is written?

However, according to you, a person cannot "spiritually hear" Gen 1:1 unless he or she is born again so God can work within him or her.

Yes, they cannot hear. Read the following.

So, we're discussing Genesis 1:1 and because you cannot deal with the fact that a person either believes what is written or does not believe what is written, you jump all the way to John 8 and John 10 to explain away everything that God has written from Genesis 1:2 through John 7???

No wonder you cannot discuss a simple matter concerning what is written in Genesis 1:1.

If you believe what is written in Genesis 1:1, God works in the heart and brings increase (1 Cor 3:6-7).

If you do not believe what is written, you hold the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18) and there is no increase ... and if you continue to hold the truth in unrighteousness, read further in Romans 1 to see that 1) the foolish heart becomesdarkened (Rom 1:21) ... and if you continue further away from God, 2) God gives you up to uncleanness (Rom 1:24) ... and if you continue 3) God give you up unto vile affections (Rom 1:26) ... and if you continue further 4) God gives you over to a reprobate mind.


Address the above truth from Scripture, rogerg, and then, maybe ... just maybe ... you will be able to comprehend what is written in John 8:43, 47 and John 10:25-29.

You are the one changing it.

nope ... I am not the one who claimed (as you did in Post 528) that "the veil would first have to be first be lifted".

"WHEN IT SHALL TURN", is not "AFTER IT SHALL TURN". "shall turn" is aorist- it is a continuing process. Nevertheless, even if your interpretation is correct (which it isn't) the verse is not saying their turning saved them. They became saved first, and as a result, they turn. You see, (or think you see), the "what" but you are unable to consider or think the "how" or "why" germane.

More of your misinterpretation of what I have stated.

I never said "the verse is saying their turning saved them".

What I have pointed out is that when the heart turns to the Lord, the veil is removed.

I never mentioned whether a person is born again or not born again.

A born again one can have a veil upon his or her heart.

When he or she turns his/her heart to the Lord, the Lord removes the veil and Scripture opens up to him or her.

Quit twisting what I have stated. Go back through the discussion and see that I never once brought up whether a person was born again or not born again.

1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought

The words "are perfect" are translated from the Greek word téleios which means mature, of full age. Paul specifically states that he and other more mature spoke wisdom amongst themselves. These discussions were not held in the regular church congregation.

No, it does NOT mean what you've posted. It means those who have become spiritually completed; that is, saved. Only those saved
know the hidden wisdom. They cannot know before then. The gospel is, and remains, hidden to all of the unsaved.

wow. You have no idea what the word teleios means and instead of looking it up like a Berean, you just reject out of hand because what I told you does not align with your dogma.


From Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

οἱ τέλειοι, the perfect, i. e. the more intelligent, ready to apprehend divine things, 1 Corinthians 2:6(R. V. marginal reading full-grown)​

From HELPS Word-studies:

téleios (an adjective, derived from 5056/télos, "consummated goal") – mature (consummated) from going through the necessary stages to reach the end-goal, i.e. developed into a consummating completion by fulfilling the necessary process (spiritual journey).​

From Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words:

(I) of persons,​

(a) primarily of physical development, then, with ethical import "fully grown, mature" 1Cr 2:6​

​

The point is not when the hidden wisdom was made public

not true. God tells us in 1 Cor 2:8 that if satan and his minions had known the mystery, the hidden wisdom spoken of in 1 Cor 2:6-7, he never would have crucified the Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 2:

6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Why is it so difficult for you to understand this?

That I reject your conflation of the gospel with the mystery, the hidden wisdom does not mean I do not understand it.

That you conflate the gospel with the mystery, the hidden wisdom reveals that you do not understand the mystery, the hidden wisdom (and, quite possibly, the gospel).

Here, read these verses closely. They are as clear as they can be - that unsaved
man CANNOT KNOW THE THINGS OF GOD, period. To know the things of God, the hidden things, one must first have received
the Holy Spirit. It is by Him alone that spiritual wisdom is given.

again, that you conflate the gospel with the mystery, the hidden wisdom does not change gospel into the mystery, the hidden wisdom (or vice versa).

I went through the verses in 1 Cor 2:6-14 and showed you that the spiritual matters referred to go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel spoken of in 1 Cor 2:2):

vs 6 – the wisdom which was discussed among the mature believers ... the gospel was taught in the general congregation (vss 1-2).

vs 7 – the wisdom of God in a mystery ... this wisdom was kept secret since the world began (Rom 16:25); and in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men (Eph 3:5); and from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God (Eph 3:9); and which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest (Col 1:26). Please understand, the gospel was never hid ... the gospel is proclaimed throughout all of Scripture from Genesis to Revelation.

vs 8 – if the devil and his minions had known the mystery, the hidden wisdom, they never would have crucified the Lord Jesus Christ.

vs 9 – the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).

vs 10 – the deep things of God go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel). The gospel is considered milk upon which the new believer (indeed, all believers) is to desire so that he/she may grow thereby... the mystery, the hidden wisdom is (scripturally) considered to be strong meat.

vs 11 – the things of God which no man knoweth go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).

vs 12 – the things that are freely given to us of God go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).

vs 13 – things which the Holy Ghost teacheth go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).

vs 14 – the things of the Spirit of God and specifically the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Whenever Jesus says, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear,” He is calling for people to pay careful heed. It’s another way of saying, “Listen up! Pay close attention!” Speaking in parables was one way in which Jesus sought to gain the attention of the crowds — people love stories, and the parables depicted events and characters with which they could readily relate. But unless they were willing to tune out other distractions and come to Jesus to understand the meaning of His preaching, His words would be only empty stories. They needed more than ears, however keen they were; they needed ears to hear.

When asked by His disciples why He was speaking to the crowds in parables, Jesus refers to Isaiah 6, which speaks of people who have eyes and ears, yet who have hardened their hearts and chosen to ignore the Word of the Lord (Matthew 13:10-15; cf. Isaiah 6:8-10). Part of the judgment on those who refuse to believe is that they will eventually lose their opportunity to believe: “Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them” (Matthew 13:12; cf. Romans 1:18-32).
https://www.gotquestions.org/he-who-has-ears-to-hear.html

Oh my, are you sill trying to go with that?

yep. And God allows you to suppress the truth in unrighteousness ... which, obviously, is the path you have chosen to follow.

It just simply is not true or correct.

Just because you disagree does not mean it is "not true or correct".

[Jhn 8:43, 47 KJV]
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. ...
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God.

This record is completely unrelated to the record in Matt 13. And if you would read the above verses in context, you would also see that John 8:45-46 says and because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

But you conveniently (purposely) leave vss 45-46 out because they do not conform to your dogma.

[Jhn 10:25-29 KJV]
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand

Again, another record which is completely unrelated to Matt 13 ... and, again, it is clear that people rejected the truth as shown by John 10:25-26 ... they reject God, they reject truth ... they suppress the truth in unrighteousness just as God tells us in Romans 1.

They close their own eyes ... just as the Lord Jesus Christ said in Matthew 13:15 (which is a verse right in the immediate context of the record we were discussing).

No need to go to completely unrelated contexts in John 8 or John 10 which, when carefully reviewed actually support what I have been telling you (that people close their own eyes).

You should really read the Bible only by using the instructions God set forth for understanding the Bible.

please point out the error in the following statement:

we are to understand words within verses, verses within immediate context, immediate context within remote context, and all Scripture is to fit together with no contradictions.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

rogerg, you need to read Scripture and ask God to reveal to you how it is possible for those who are spiritually dead to respond to Him.

I know how and it is explained here

[Eph 2:1 KJV] 1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;

IOW, they can't respond. To do so, they would have to be given spiritual life first

... so God gives "spiritual life" to a person so he or she can reject Him???

Rejection of God and rejection of Scripture is a response to God having first reached out to mankind.

God MUST not only reach out first, but He must also first make the person spiritually alive

... again, God gives "spiritual life" to a person so he or she can reject Him???

Do you even think about what you claim before you submit something so ludicrous as what you imply???

He has the title of Saviour, and we don't. Obviously, from your postings, you do not believe that He is.

What is obvious is your inability to comprehend what is stated in writing.

So, as unbelieving in Christ, how can you perceive yourself a follower the Bible?

It is obvious that your personal attacks are due to your inability to refute the central point.

I'm not going to reply to your posts about the biblical interpretations of other people. I know what the Bible says so their opinions
mean nothing to me.

... for your edification, which you will promptly disregard because, well, you're you.

Johann Bengel

C H Spurgeon wrote that Bengel's NT commentary "is the Scholar's delight! Bengel condensed more matter into a line than can be extracted from pages of other writers."​

​

John Wesley said of Bengel "I know of no commentator on the Bible equal to Bengel" and referred to him as "The great light of the Christian world."​

Heinrich Meyer (from LOGOS website)

Known as "Meyer's Commentary," the Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament (21 vols.) is considered one of the best New Testament commentaries published in English in the early nineteenth century.​

Endorsements​

Consummate scholarship and something like exegetical genius unite in Dr. Meyer in a degree to which it would be difficult to find a parallel.​

—The British Quarterly Review​

The ablest grammatical exegete of the age.​

—Philip Schaff​

The commentaries on the Epistles are marvels of patient, laborious research, and often times of most penetrating insight. If we were restricted to one commentary we should certainly choose Meyer.​

—The Evangelical Magazine and Missionary Chronicle​

.

 

[rogerg]

... so God gives "spiritual life" to a person so he or she can reject Him???

Rejection of God and rejection of Scripture is a response to God having first reached out to mankind.

No - wrong again. God gives spiritual life only to those whom He saves when He saves them, and once it is given, it will not/cannot be rejected by them. If someone truly and sincerely reaches out to God from the heart, it is only because God HAD ALREADY SAVED AND JUSTIFIED THEM and their reaching out to Him is a byproduct of that, which is by a new heart. Reaching out - as in realizing one's absolute need for His mercy - is entirely a different matter that of demanding God save them because of something they believe they've done to deserve it. Everything starts with, and comes from salvation, including the desire to truly seek after Him. Nothing that a man can do will bring salvation to himself, that is why Jesus has the title of Saviour and we don't - we are entirely at His mercy for it.
Because you believe otherwise means that you remain under works and not grace. If you can understand what I've explained here,
it would behoove you greatly to take it to heart.

... again, God gives "spiritual life" to a person so he or she can reject Him???

Do you even think about what you claim before you submit something so ludicrous as what you imply???

The failure is yours. That you made that statement means you are/were obviously unable to grasp what was written. Read the above but think about it this time.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Nothing that a man can do will bring salvation to himself, that is why Jesus has the title of Saviour and we don't - we are entirely at His mercy for it.

Are you not commanded to repent? Is that something which you do is that what God does? So did you or did you not repent? And if you say you did repent, you just blew your theory SKY HIGH! Time to go back to square one Roger and forsake all your manmade ideas. Go to Scripture and see that it TOTALLY REFUTES Five Point Calvinism.

But if you say you did NOT repent, then you are not saved.

 

[rogerg]

Please read again with comprehension.

So, we're discussing Genesis 1:1 and because you cannot deal with the fact that a person either believes what is written or does not believe what is written, you jump all the way to John 8 and John 10 to explain away everything that God has written from Genesis 1:2 through John 7???

I believe that I've explained to you before that God used progressive revelation throughout the Bible in making His gospel known.
At the highest level, that is why He wrote BOTH the OT AND NT, and why He tells us that no prophecy of scripture is
of any private interpretation. Until you realize that and follow God's rules, (if you are one of God's elect), you will never be able to find His gospel in the Bible.

 

[rogerg]

Are you not commanded to repent? Is that something which you do is that what God does? So did you or did you not repent? And if you say you did repent, you just blew your theory SKY HIGH! Time to go back to square one Roger and forsake all your manmade ideas. Go to Scripture and see that it TOTALLY REFUTES Five Point Calvinism.

But if you say you did NOT repent, then you are not saved.

To repent is a gift from God as are all things pertaining to salvation. Repentance is coming to faith in Christ as Saviour instead of trusting in our own works for it. But it only happens to those who become saved, from becoming saved -it is not of/from oneself. Observe below that it must be given by God.

[2Ti 2:25 KJV] 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

[Heb 6:1 KJV] 1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

 

[Nehemiah6]

To repent is a gift from God as are all things pertaining to salvation.

Where does the Bible say this? And indeed if it were a gift from God then ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE would receive it. Since God commands all men everywhere to repent. So you actually dodged the question: "Did you or did you not repent, and if you did repent who did the repenting?" And that totally demolishes you theory.

 

[rogerg]

Where does the Bible say this? And indeed if it were a gift from God then ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE would receive it. Since God commands all men everywhere to repent. So you actually dodged the question: "Did you or did you not repent, and if you did repent who did the repenting?" And that totally demolishes you theory.

And you are dodging my answer. By becoming saved I repented from dead works unto faith in Christ as Saviour - that is repentance, but God is the one who gives salvation and thereby gives repentance to someone as part of it. It really shouldn't be all that difficult for you to understand.
so my repentance was by Him, not me. "God peradventure WILL GIVE".
I guess that you are unable to comprehend the verses I included. Here they are, try again:

[2Ti 2:25 KJV] 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

[Heb 6:1 KJV] 1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,