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He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But to all who did receive Him, to those
who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— children born not of
blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God. Adam was not born, but created, of the
natural world, and not born again of the Spirit. Plus he rejected God's plan for his life...
And Adam was unique, yes .
who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— children born not of
blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God. Adam was not born, but created, of the
natural world, and not born again of the Spirit. Plus he rejected God's plan for his life...
And Adam was unique, yes .
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He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But to all who did receive Him, to those
who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— children born not of
blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God. Adam was not born, but created, of the
natural world, and not born again of the Spirit. Plus he rejected God's plan for his life...
And Adam was unique, yes .
who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— children born not of
blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God. Adam was not born, but created, of the
natural world, and not born again of the Spirit. Plus he rejected God's plan for his life...
And Adam was unique, yes .
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Ok. Good morning when it's morning. Let's try afresh.
First, concerning wheat and tares:
It doesn't necessarily follow that because we all begin astranged from God and are under His wrath as we enter the world that we all must be tares at some point. It seems to make sense logically that if we begin under God's wrath and then come out from under it and in the process are transformed that the transformation can be exemplified as a change from tare to wheat. But is that consistent with what is taught concerning the wheat and tares in Matthew 13?
The distinction given between wheat and tares is not that they once shared a common estate and in that common estate existed as children of the devil and that some exited that estate and became children of God. Rather, it mentions two groups who began as one or the other and no change of estate is ever mentioned. If what you propose is the case, it has to be assumed from this particular passage, in my understanding.
As to the question of how, then, can someone who believes that these estates are predetermined beforehand still believe that men are free to make choices. The short answer is that as a part of salvation one must believe. Whenever the word of God is declared it either elicits a response or it does not; that is, a person believes it or they do not. Believing or not believing is a choice. Regardless of how much one believes God influences that choice, it is still an act of the will of each particular person and their choice.
I can neither deny that God has distinguished two particular lines in humanity or that men must as a matter of faith make a choice.
I quite imagine the interplay between the divine decree and the human agency to fulfill the purposes of God will long be the subject of discussion and debate.
Hope this helps clarify my thoughts on the matter.
First, concerning wheat and tares:
It doesn't necessarily follow that because we all begin astranged from God and are under His wrath as we enter the world that we all must be tares at some point. It seems to make sense logically that if we begin under God's wrath and then come out from under it and in the process are transformed that the transformation can be exemplified as a change from tare to wheat. But is that consistent with what is taught concerning the wheat and tares in Matthew 13?
The distinction given between wheat and tares is not that they once shared a common estate and in that common estate existed as children of the devil and that some exited that estate and became children of God. Rather, it mentions two groups who began as one or the other and no change of estate is ever mentioned. If what you propose is the case, it has to be assumed from this particular passage, in my understanding.
As to the question of how, then, can someone who believes that these estates are predetermined beforehand still believe that men are free to make choices. The short answer is that as a part of salvation one must believe. Whenever the word of God is declared it either elicits a response or it does not; that is, a person believes it or they do not. Believing or not believing is a choice. Regardless of how much one believes God influences that choice, it is still an act of the will of each particular person and their choice.
I can neither deny that God has distinguished two particular lines in humanity or that men must as a matter of faith make a choice.
I quite imagine the interplay between the divine decree and the human agency to fulfill the purposes of God will long be the subject of discussion and debate.
Hope this helps clarify my thoughts on the matter.
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Within the study notes of the context of John 8 (where Jesus tells those within the crowd that believed, "The Truth will set you free," while arguing with the rest about their father the devil) is a parallel that takes you to 2John 1 in the context of 3John's instructions for Walking in Truth, and caution to Beware of Deceivers (who refuse to confess the coming of Christ in the flesh. Any such person is the deceiver and antichrist [2John1:7b]).
And Jesus' explanation of the man who sowed good seed's wish to not pull up the tares appears to suggest that the wheat is entangled in some of that deception, considering that when the time for harvest does come, the outcome is the harvesters will "weed out of His kingdom every cause of sin and all who practice lawlessness....Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their father (Matthew 13)."
Anyway, it seems to me that the good seed accepts the truth and grows more wheat grains to scatter but if you open the head of the tares and examine it, you find air and dust. i.e. there is no substance to them, no faith since faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things believed.
And Jesus' explanation of the man who sowed good seed's wish to not pull up the tares appears to suggest that the wheat is entangled in some of that deception, considering that when the time for harvest does come, the outcome is the harvesters will "weed out of His kingdom every cause of sin and all who practice lawlessness....Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their father (Matthew 13)."
Anyway, it seems to me that the good seed accepts the truth and grows more wheat grains to scatter but if you open the head of the tares and examine it, you find air and dust. i.e. there is no substance to them, no faith since faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things believed.
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Oh not at all my brother. When we look at the definition of the wheat and tares, Christ says it is seed that is planted one by him the other by the devil. The wheat is Christ seed his ministry the truth by which all men are saved. The tares are the devils seed. The wheat and tares are the result of the seed planted. Truth vs lies. Which of course the field is the world. So the separation is those who have the truth and those who have the lie.
Since we are in the world but not of it. There is also a sowing of the both seeds also in the church. We see this when Christ speaks in Revelation to the churches. His seed he tells them I know where you are and you have not entertained the false doctrines, the lies. To the other he says repent because they are believing and living a lie.
The false seed is those that walk in the way of Cain. Cain offered a sacrifice to God and said it is good enough, it is acceptable. Abel offered a sacrifice in a accordance with what God said and it was only good and acceptable because it was as God had ordained.
This is what is going in our world all religions are saying just be good, love love, you can do it on your own and God will be pleased with what you offer him. Your self righteousness it will be acceptable.
God says all our righteousness is as filthy rags. He says we will not see the kingdom unless our righteous exceeds that of the Pharisees. Their righteousness was built on self. Whereas God's righteousness is built on Christ.
These are the two seeds planted in this world, Christ is gonna separate the fruit of these two seeds the wheat and the tares. Those who have the truth and those who do not.
Adam was a son of God, and angels where sons of God because the scripture is pointing out God's perfection and the direct vs the indirect. God can't create anything but completion, perfection, righteousness. When he was done with our world and us he said it was good. Nothing more to be added it was whole and complete. When Christ died he said it is finished. Once again God being God can only be God so all he does is complete in every aspect.
Why the bible points out the direct vs indirect when it comes to his creation. When God creates he creates as him and who he is. So it is righteous or standing upright. As he is his own standard and the only standard he judges by and find acceptable. Why the word fallen is used because if you are standing up right and you fall then you come up short of the standard.
We are born short of that standard as we are a indirect creation we are reproduced after Adam. So we are born fallen. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Again he is showing he is the standard, the measurement.
So Adam, Angels, even more so Lucifer. How hast though fallen. God created him prefect. So why God uses the word fallen to show the state. Why to the Ephesian's he says remember from whence thou art fallen. Our state in reference to him be we righteous, standing upright or be we fallen.
Our new birth is an act of God directly creating a new creature paid for and done by Christ. So we by Christ are found righteous and our new creation in it, his righteousness. So we fall from what the standard of what God has created directly we fall from him as he is righteousness. Why he uses that word fallen in reference to Adam, the devil, and the church of Ephesus. Because you can only fall if you are standing.
So why he says he will remove what offends and does iniquity the tares. Because if you love God then you will have his love, have the truth and truth is that those who are his keep his commandments. God created us to reflect him so if we are him then that is what we will do. A good tree can only produce good fruit.
So hopefully this made sense as just keep repeating myself at this point trying to be clear, I oft convolute............LOL
Since we are in the world but not of it. There is also a sowing of the both seeds also in the church. We see this when Christ speaks in Revelation to the churches. His seed he tells them I know where you are and you have not entertained the false doctrines, the lies. To the other he says repent because they are believing and living a lie.
The false seed is those that walk in the way of Cain. Cain offered a sacrifice to God and said it is good enough, it is acceptable. Abel offered a sacrifice in a accordance with what God said and it was only good and acceptable because it was as God had ordained.
This is what is going in our world all religions are saying just be good, love love, you can do it on your own and God will be pleased with what you offer him. Your self righteousness it will be acceptable.
God says all our righteousness is as filthy rags. He says we will not see the kingdom unless our righteous exceeds that of the Pharisees. Their righteousness was built on self. Whereas God's righteousness is built on Christ.
These are the two seeds planted in this world, Christ is gonna separate the fruit of these two seeds the wheat and the tares. Those who have the truth and those who do not.
Adam was a son of God, and angels where sons of God because the scripture is pointing out God's perfection and the direct vs the indirect. God can't create anything but completion, perfection, righteousness. When he was done with our world and us he said it was good. Nothing more to be added it was whole and complete. When Christ died he said it is finished. Once again God being God can only be God so all he does is complete in every aspect.
Why the bible points out the direct vs indirect when it comes to his creation. When God creates he creates as him and who he is. So it is righteous or standing upright. As he is his own standard and the only standard he judges by and find acceptable. Why the word fallen is used because if you are standing up right and you fall then you come up short of the standard.
We are born short of that standard as we are a indirect creation we are reproduced after Adam. So we are born fallen. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Again he is showing he is the standard, the measurement.
So Adam, Angels, even more so Lucifer. How hast though fallen. God created him prefect. So why God uses the word fallen to show the state. Why to the Ephesian's he says remember from whence thou art fallen. Our state in reference to him be we righteous, standing upright or be we fallen.
Our new birth is an act of God directly creating a new creature paid for and done by Christ. So we by Christ are found righteous and our new creation in it, his righteousness. So we fall from what the standard of what God has created directly we fall from him as he is righteousness. Why he uses that word fallen in reference to Adam, the devil, and the church of Ephesus. Because you can only fall if you are standing.
So why he says he will remove what offends and does iniquity the tares. Because if you love God then you will have his love, have the truth and truth is that those who are his keep his commandments. God created us to reflect him so if we are him then that is what we will do. A good tree can only produce good fruit.
So hopefully this made sense as just keep repeating myself at this point trying to be clear, I oft convolute............LOL
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How is it written?
After, and I stress after 3 days and nights, then he prayed.
You could say he lived three days and three nights in the belly of the whale but when you look at verses two and six, it shows where Jonah was in the belly of the Earth and then God brought him back to life after the three days and three nights. He then prayed again when he himself, or rather, his soul, was back in the belly of the large fish.
It kind of looks like Jonah drowned before he got eaten by a large fish. He talks about the Waters covering over him.
He also talks about going to the place of the Dead.
Strong's Number - H7585
Hebrew: שׁאל שׁאול
Transliteration: she'ôl she'ôl
Pronunciation: {sheh-ole'} sheh-ole'
Definition: From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian {retreat }) including its accessories and inmates: - {grave} {hell} pit.
KJV Usage: grave (31x), hell (31x), pit (3x).
Occurs: 65
In verses: 63
In the natural, no one could live inside the gut of any fish, regardless of how large it is, because there is no oxygen, or very little, in any belly, and the acidity in the stomach would breakdown the flesh, just like our stomachs break down everything we eat. And it doesn't take 3 days and three nights to digest the food we eat.
So yeah, I believe he died, prayed while he was in the belly of the Earth, then God resurrected him back to life, and pray it again while in the belly of the large fish. And that is when God caused the large fish to vomit Jonah on the shore.
After, and I stress after 3 days and nights, then he prayed.
You could say he lived three days and three nights in the belly of the whale but when you look at verses two and six, it shows where Jonah was in the belly of the Earth and then God brought him back to life after the three days and three nights. He then prayed again when he himself, or rather, his soul, was back in the belly of the large fish.
It kind of looks like Jonah drowned before he got eaten by a large fish. He talks about the Waters covering over him.
He also talks about going to the place of the Dead.
Strong's Number - H7585
Hebrew: שׁאל שׁאול
Transliteration: she'ôl she'ôl
Pronunciation: {sheh-ole'} sheh-ole'
Definition: From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian {retreat }) including its accessories and inmates: - {grave} {hell} pit.
KJV Usage: grave (31x), hell (31x), pit (3x).
Occurs: 65
In verses: 63
In the natural, no one could live inside the gut of any fish, regardless of how large it is, because there is no oxygen, or very little, in any belly, and the acidity in the stomach would breakdown the flesh, just like our stomachs break down everything we eat. And it doesn't take 3 days and three nights to digest the food we eat.
So yeah, I believe he died, prayed while he was in the belly of the Earth, then God resurrected him back to life, and pray it again while in the belly of the large fish. And that is when God caused the large fish to vomit Jonah on the shore.
Good morning, StillLearning .. Your answer was very well thought out, well put together, and not convoluted at all! You expressed quite eloquently what I have been attempting to say, which is to say, that the identification of wheat or tares has to do with one's spiritual standing before God, as either one of His children through the new birth, which is available to all and activated by grace through faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ, or that of still being of the natural world, God's enemy, and hostile towards Him. Thank you as always for the time and consideration you have taken to contribute to this conversation. I hope you are well .
The conclusion of all this is, if a tare could not become a wheat, we would all be doomed.
. Your answer was very well thought out, well put together, and not convoluted at all! You expressed quite eloquently what I have been attempting to say, which is to say, that the identification of wheat or tares has to do with one's spiritual standing before God, as either one of His children through the new birth, which is available to all and activated by grace through faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ, or that of still being of the natural world, God's enemy, and hostile towards Him. Thank you as always for the time and consideration you have taken to contribute to this conversation. I hope you are well .The conclusion of all this is, if a tare could not become a wheat, we would all be doomed.
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He believes as Jesus does, that the Father alone is God.
https://integritysyndicate.com/one-god-and-father/
https://integritysyndicate.com/one-god-and-father/