Where was Jesus for the three days between his death and resurrection?

[Cameron143]

We are all of the natural world first, though, before being born again. Being born in Adam first,
before being born again in Christ. So we all practised lawlessness, which is what a tare does.



If people are born as tares, then they do not have a choice to become wheat, which contradicts your belief
that people are free to choose to believe. I wondered how you reconciled people not being fashioned
for damnation if they were born a tare with no option to ever being a wheat. You questioned why
I assumed tares were people, which is what they are identified as in Scripture. I may need a nap...

Ok...I went back and found the explanation later in the chapter. Jesus clearly delineates 2 groups. One is the children of God and the other the children of the devil. One begins as wheat. One begins as tares. Neither does it say becomes the other.
This isn't difficult to see in scripture. God created Adam and Eve. Both wheat. Satan enticed them to sin. As part of the curse for the woman, God greatly increased both her sorrow and conception. Notice, it doesn't say sorrow IN conception, but sorrow AND conception. This increase in births is how the tares were sown by Satan. It was his deception that led to sin and the curse.

From there God develops these 2 lines of humanity and what characterizes each. Some notable delineations are made between Cain and Abel, Ishmael and Isaac, and Jacob and Esau. Each pair adding different aspects of the differences between the two lines.

 

[Cameron143]

Everyone descended from Adam (everyone) starts unsaved, needing salvation.
People can choose to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and become saved. Children of God.
People can choose to become "of that wicked one," as Cain did, and some of the pharisees did. Children of the devil.
There are unsaved people who are not children of the devil. They're simply unsaved. Children of wrath (Eph 2:3), but not necessarily children of the devil.

Also, Jesus said you're either gathering with him, or scattering. That plays into it too, somehow.

I absolutely do not believe that individual people are predestined. Even though we're all born needing salvation, I believe that anyone can choose to become a child of God, except those who have become children of the devil. You cannot become both a child of God and a child of the devil, and once you're somebody's child, your fate is sealed.

..just my thoughts.

I appreciate your thoughts on the subject. I'm curious, how do you believe someone becomes a child of the devil?

 

[Mem]

I appreciate your thoughts on the subject. I'm curious, how do you believe someone becomes a child of the devil?

There's adoption. An adopted child is a legitimate child.

 

[Cameron143]

There's adoption. An adopted child is a legitimate child.

Thanks for replying. I understand the adoption of salvation. How is one adopted by the devil?

 

[VARob]

I appreciate your thoughts on the subject. I'm curious, how do you believe someone becomes a child of the devil?

I believe that's the unforgivable sin. Blaspheming God. Loving and worshiping a false God (money, fame, power, etc) so much that a person gets sold out to it. You've no doubt heard the phrase "sell your soul to the devil." I believe people can do that.

 

[Mem]

Thanks for replying. I understand the adoption of salvation. How is one adopted by the devil?

By taking 'his name,' just as faith in Jesus' name is trusting in His character, His name and His character are synonymous, and is one is representative of the other. We are made in His image, but just as we bore the image of Adam so we will bear the image of Christ.... Perhaps merely rejecting Jesus' name is by default adopting the devil's?

 

[Cameron143]

I believe that's the unforgivable sin. Blaspheming God. Loving and worshiping a false God (money, fame, power, etc) so much that a person gets sold out to it. You've no doubt heard the phrase "sell your soul to the devil." I believe people can do that.

Thanks for responding.

 

[Cameron143]

By taking 'his name,' just as faith in Jesus' name is trusting in His character, His name and His character are synonymous, and is one is representative of the other. We are made in His image, but just as we bore the image of Adam so we will bear the image of Christ.... Perhaps merely rejecting Jesus' name is by default adopting the devil's?

Thanks for sharing. There are verses that speak to our adoption by God. Are there any you know concerning an adoption by Satan?

 

[Mem]

Thanks for sharing. There are verses that speak to our adoption by God. Are there any you know concerning an adoption by Satan?

It is given that the seed of the woman is Christ, and the prophecy is enmity between her seed and the serpent's seed. I suppose most consider this a genetic line, and believe angels mated with humans, but I'm not so convinced that this isn't speaking toward the spiritual line, especially considering that Jesus had no progeny.
I think John 8:33-48 supports this consideration.

 

[Magenta]

Is Romans 8:28 true? Can God take all your terrible choices and work them for your good? God chose to make them good. You chose freely to sin. You did what you wanted and God still had the final decision on their outcome. God isn't limited by the choices of people. See Daniel 4:35.

I have simply been trying to point out that your contention that a tare cannot become a wheat seems
to contradict your otherwise stated position of people being able to choose freely. Since we were all
at one time by nature children of wrath, opposed to God and hostile in our minds toward Him, does
that not mean we were tares? Tares at that time. This does not mean that God did not know what
the final outcome would be, nor does it in any way indicate that He did not have the final say in
the matter. He knows the end from the beginning, and will do all that He pleases, after all.

 

[Magenta]

I just reread the the parable of the wheat and the tares in Matthew 13. Nowhere does it say wheat or tares are people.

Matthew 13: 36 Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples
came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”

37 He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and
the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and
the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

Matthew 3:12
His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather
his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”

 

[Magenta]

Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, “Gather
the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.”

@Cameron143 , do you think He is really talking about plants? .

 

[Cameron143]

I have simply been trying to point out that your contention that a tare cannot become a wheat seems
to contradict your otherwise stated position of people being able to choose freely. Since we were all
at one time by nature children of wrath, opposed to God and hostile in our minds toward Him, does
that not mean we were tares? Tares at that time. This does not mean that God did not know what
the final outcome would be, nor does it in any way indicate that He did not have the final say in
the matter. He knows the end from the beginning, and will do all that He pleases, after all.

I have an answer for you but I want to look through some scriptures before I do. So if you will allow I'll answer tomorrow.
But for clarity, you believe we are all tares at some point? That because Adam sinned and we are all in Adam, we begin as tares?
And was Adam sown as wheat, sinned and became a tare, and then became wheat again when clothed by God?

 

[Magenta]

Ok...I went back and found the explanation later in the chapter. Jesus clearly delineates 2 groups. One is the children of God and the other the children of the devil. One begins as wheat. One begins as tares. Neither does it say becomes the other.
This isn't difficult to see in scripture. God created Adam and Eve. Both wheat. Satan enticed them to sin. As part of the curse for the woman, God greatly increased both her sorrow and conception. Notice, it doesn't say sorrow IN conception, but sorrow AND conception. This increase in births is how the tares were sown by Satan. It was his deception that led to sin and the curse.

From there God develops these 2 lines of humanity and what characterizes each. Some notable delineations are made between Cain and Abel, Ishmael and Isaac, and Jacob and Esau. Each pair adding different aspects of the differences between the two lines.

I did not see this when I returned and responded (this is on a new page). Does your second paragraph mean you do
not agree with the angels having children with humans? I cannot recall if you have said anything about this before.
It does seem you are saying those of the line of Seth are the children of God, Seth, Isaac, Jacob, etc. I agree .

 

[Cameron143]

Matthew 13: 36 Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples
came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”

37 He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and
the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and
the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

Matthew 3:12
His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather
his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”

Yes. I went back later to read the explanation, but thanks.

 

[Cameron143]

I did not see this when I returned and responded (this is on a new page). Does your second paragraph mean you do
not agree with the angels having children with humans? I cannot recall if you have said anything about this before.
It does seem you are saying those of the line of Seth are the children of God, Seth, Isaac, Jacob, etc. I agree .

I wasn't addressing that particular topic but I don't see in scripture where angels possess the ability to procreate with humans and I believe after its kind seems to insinuate that the possibility doesn't exist.

 

[Magenta]

I have an answer for you but I want to look through some scriptures before I do. So if you will allow I'll answer tomorrow.
But for clarity, you believe we are all tares at some point? That because Adam sinned and we are all in Adam, we begin as tares?
And was Adam sown as wheat, sinned and became a tare, and then became wheat again when clothed by God?

I am not sure that I am solidified on that position. But it does seem to be a fact that we were all at one time
enemies of God and born in that condition, so it does not seem a stretch to say we were tares at some point.
Jesus even referred to Peter as Satan. Also, since you are saying a tare cannot become a wheat, then people
are either born as one or the other and that negates allowing for everyone to make a choice to believe.

A person who is by nature a child of wrath can become a child of God.
So I am equating being by nature a child of wrath to being a tare.

 

[Cameron143]

I am not sure that I am solidified on that position. But it does seem to be a fact that we were all at one time
enemies of God and born in that condition, so it does not seem a stretch to say we were tares at some point.
Jesus even referred to Peter as Satan. Also, since you are saying a tare cannot become a wheat, then people
are either born as one or the other and that negates allowing for everyone to make a choice to believe.

A person who is by nature a child of wrath can become a child of God.
So I am equating being by nature a child of wrath to being a tare.

Ok. I understand the nature of your inquiry. I'll give it my best shot tomorrow at explaining.
And Jesus calling Peter Satan was probably like us calling someone another person's name when they act in the manner of that person.

 

[Magenta]

And was Adam sown as wheat, sinned and became a tare, and then became wheat again when clothed by God?

No, LOL. Adam was of the natural world. I have said this a few times, I am sure... and we have discussed this elsewhere also, in regards to Adam not being perfect, which you clarified to meaning he had not yet sinned. Even so, he was of the natural world; we are perfected in Christ, and He was "pictured" as the Tree of Life in the garden, which was not eaten from. Until a person is born again of the Holy Spirit of God, they cannot be perfected in Christ. And besides, the skins did not make them sinless in a way that wheat are considered sinless.

 

[Magenta]

Ok. I understand the nature of your inquiry. I'll give it my best shot tomorrow at explaining.

Thank you. This has been pleasant and I appreciate the time you have taken to hash this out with me .