Where was Jesus for the three days between his death and resurrection?

[Cameron143]

No => Satan creates nothing. But people are under his sway until born again, yes or no? The
Bible seems to be pretty clear that either the world’s inhabitants are under the influence of
this world with its cunning, deception, and spell, or they are in Christ and under the direction
of the Spirit of God. Wheat and tares. Back to Ephesians 2: And you were dead in your trespasses
and sins, in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler
of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. All of us also lived
among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts.
Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath.

All true. You answered the last question. How about the ones before that?

 

[Magenta]

All true. You answered the last question. How about the ones before that?

I don't know what you mean. We are also told that the tares will be thrown into the fire.

The enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
As the weeds are collected and burned in the fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will
send out His angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom every cause of sin and all who practice lawlessness.

 

[Cameron143]

I don't know what you mean. We are also told that the tares will be thrown into the fire.

The enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
As the weeds are collected and burned in the fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will
send out His angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom every cause of sin and all who practice lawlessness.

So the field is the world. Jesus told a parable about sowing. His seed was the gospel and when it fell on good ground it produced a harvest. That's the wheat. Satan came along with his false gospel. He sowed and had 3 different results.

 

[Magenta]

So the field is the world. Jesus told a parable about sowing. His seed was the gospel and when it fell on good ground
itproduced a harvest. That's the wheat. Satan came along with his false gospel. He sowed and had 3 different results.

We were all of the world and under his dominion until born again.

 

[Cameron143]

We were all of the world and under his dominion until born again.

That's how we all begin until the gospel is sown. But when it was, we flourished and grew. If we were tares, we would have never grown.
If you plant wheat, it may or may not grow. But if it grows, it will be wheat. Likewise, if you plant tares, it will always grow into tares.
The parable isn't so much dealing with salvation as it teaches that both God and Satan are at work in the world.

 

[Magenta]

That's how we all begin until the gospel is sown. But when it was,
we flourished and grew. If we were tares, we would have never grown.
If you plant wheat, it may or may not grow. But if it grows, it will be wheat. Likewise, if you plant tares, it will always grow
into tares.The parable isn't so much dealing with salvation as it teaches that both God and Satan are at work in the world.

Are the tares people in your view? That means they have no choice.

 

[Cameron143]

Are the tares people in your view? That means they have no choice.

Wheat and tares represent the outcomes of the different responses to the gospel.

 

[Magenta]

Wheat and tares represent the outcomes of the different responses to the gospel.

That seems to contradict that they were sown as such.

The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares
are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil.

Tares are identified as people in Scripture.

Are tares not unsaved people? I thought that was the assumption all along, with the
tares being in juxtaposition against the wheat, which are the saved ones. Tares being
children of the prince of this world, which, are we not all born as such? We are of the
natural world until born again spiritually. Wheat. There is no neutral ground.

Why do you assume that?

Because Scripture says so.

 

[Cameron143]

That seems to contradict that they were sown as such.

Seed is sown. Plants are harvested. I think you are trying to pigeonhole every aspect of the story. And that's ok. But if you do that here, then you have Jesus commending an unjust steward in another parable. So you must also conclude Jesus sanctions sin.

 

[Magenta]

Seed is sown. Plants are harvested. I think you are trying to pigeonhole every aspect of the story. And that's ok. But if you do that here, then you have Jesus commending an unjust steward in another parable. So you must also conclude Jesus sanctions sin.

Scripture in the words of Jesus identifies tares as children of the devil. That is people.

 

[Cameron143]

That seems to contradict that they were sown as such.

The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares
are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil.

Tares are identified as people in Scripture.



Because Scripture says so.

If tares are people, and Satan planted them, Satan created people.

 

[Magenta]

If tares are people, and Satan planted them, Satan created people.

Scripture in the words of Jesus identifies tares as children of the devil. That is people.

I think you are presenting a logical fallacy.

 

[Cameron143]

Scripture in the words of Jesus identifies tares as children of the devil. That is people.

I think you are presenting a logical fallacy.

Fair enough.

 

[Cameron143]

Scripture in the words of Jesus identifies tares as children of the devil. That is people.

So on the one hand, there are children of the devil and on the other hand everyone chooses? How do you reconcile that?

 

[Magenta]

Fair enough.

People plant seeds all the time... it does not mean those people created them, or what grew.

So on the one hand, there are children of the devil and on the other hand everyone chooses? How do you reconcile that?

That was my question to you. I think you side-stepped it .

 

[Cameron143]

People plant seeds all the time... it does not mean those people created them, or what grew.

That was my question to you. I think you side-stepped it .

As to the first part, every seed ever planted came to be whatever that seed came from. No one ever planted pumpkin seeds and watermelons grew. Whatever is planted comes up.
As to the second part, I explained this at the beginning. God chose before the world began. And His choosing in no way interfered with the freewill choices of man. But all came to fruition exactly as God ordained. Thus, those who don't believe on the Lord Jesus Christ choose freely not to and all God elected choose to believe.

 

[Magenta]

As to the first part, every seed ever planted came to be whatever that seed came from. No
one ever planted pumpkin seeds and watermelons grew. Whatever is planted comes up.

We are all of the natural world first, though, before being born again. Being born in Adam first,
before being born again in Christ. So we all practised lawlessness, which is what a tare does.

As to the second part, I explained this at
the beginning. God chose before the world began. And His choosing in no way interfered with the
freewill choices of man. But all came to fruition exactly as God ordained. Thus, those who don't
believe on the Lord Jesus Christ choose freely not to and all God elected choose to believe.

If people are born as tares, then they do not have a choice to become wheat, which contradicts your belief
that people are free to choose to believe. I wondered how you reconciled people not being fashioned
for damnation if they were born a tare with no option to ever being a wheat. You questioned why
I assumed tares were people, which is what they are identified as in Scripture. I may need a nap...

 

[Cameron143]

We are all of the natural world first, though, before being born again. Being born in Adam first,
before being born again in Christ. So we all practised lawlessness, which is what a tare does.



If people are born as tares, then they do not have a choice, which contradicts your belief that
people are free to choose to believe. I wondered how you reconciled people not being fashioned
for damnation if they were born a tare with no option to ever being a wheat. You questioned why
I assumed tares were people, which is what they are identified as in Scripture. I may need a nap...

Is Romans 8:28 true? Can God take all your terrible choices and work them for your good? God chose to make them good. You chose freely to sin. You did what you wanted and God still had the final decision on their outcome.
God isn't limited by the choices of people. See Daniel 4:35.

 

[Cameron143]

We are all of the natural world first, though, before being born again. Being born in Adam first,
before being born again in Christ. So we all practised lawlessness, which is what a tare does.



If people are born as tares, then they do not have a choice to become wheat, which contradicts your belief
that people are free to choose to believe. I wondered how you reconciled people not being fashioned
for damnation if they were born a tare with no option to ever being a wheat. You questioned why
I assumed tares were people, which is what they are identified as in Scripture. I may need a nap...

I just reread the the parable of the wheat and the tares in Matthew 13. Nowhere does it say wheat or tares are people. Even if that is what they represent, the teaching is about the kingdom of God and only suggests to me that Satan infiltrated it. At first glance the teaching from the parable is that amongst the people of God there will be those that aren't but may appear to be.
I'll look at it a little deeper, but going beyond that for understanding may be more than scripture intends.
I do believe also at first glance it shows there will be a separation at the end.

 

[VARob]

So on the one hand, there are children of the devil and on the other hand everyone chooses? How do you reconcile that?

Everyone descended from Adam (everyone) starts unsaved, needing salvation.
People can choose to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and become saved. Children of God.
People can choose to become "of that wicked one," as Cain did, and some of the pharisees did. Children of the devil.
There are unsaved people who are not children of the devil. They're simply unsaved. Children of wrath (Eph 2:3), but not necessarily children of the devil.

Also, Jesus said you're either gathering with him, or scattering. That plays into it too, somehow.

I absolutely do not believe that individual people are predestined. Even though we're all born needing salvation, I believe that anyone can choose to become a child of God, except those who have become children of the devil. You cannot become both a child of God and a child of the devil, and once you're somebody's child, your fate is sealed.

..just my thoughts.