Were you ever a tare? .
Not on purpose, I hope!
But yes I was born in sin not knowing God, always in my time of need
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Not on purpose, I hope!
But yes I was born in sin not knowing God, always in my time of need
So Ephesians2 does not apply, or ...? .
. Were you not in need of heart circumcision? I am trying to understand how you differed from a tare.
1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.
All true. All in Adam are that way at birth. That's why we must be born again.So Ephesians2 does not apply, or ...? .
circumcision? I am trying to understand how you differed from a tare.
1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.
But you will never see a goat become a sheep in the bible...nor a tare changed to wheat.
Yes. But no one could tell because wheat and tares look alike at the beginning. It wasn't until I was saved that it became evident.Were you always a wheat, then? Born a wheat?
I thought you believed that salvation was for whosoever would believe. Now you
are saying you were born as an elect and that tares are damned no matter what.
I believe both. Whosoever does believe is saved. God is great enough to allow men's free choices and still choose.
I know it's hard for people to get their head around. God did choose before the world began. Men through their own choices fit themselves to destruction.
Cain's sacrifice was not accepted. God didn't say you can't correct the problem. He said if you do well, would it not be accepted.
Sure it can. Read Acts 2:23. Jesus was killed by the determined council of God and by men's wicked hands.
Did God predetermine from the foundation of the world whom He would save, or does He want everyone to be saved and it's every person's free-will decision to make?
I just told you...both.
I get you don't understand it. But I just gave 2 examples of God ordaining and men choosing the same result.
I'm not asking you to believe me...but believe the word of God. It says both.
Do I fully understand it? No. But we aren't called to understand, only believe.
No. Everything is after it's own kind.
I realize few people believe as I do. But it is taught in scripture. Can I get my head all the way around it? No. Can I believe it makes absolute sense to an infinite mind? I can.
There are plenty of things I don't understand. And yet I believe them.
Most people don't understand how quantum physics work. But some minds do. If this is true on a human level, how much greater for the divine?
I am sorry to press into it with you so hard, but really I am just trying to show that even a straightforward
parable like the wheat and the tares cannot be easily understood when looked at closely like this, for if
all are born one way or another and cannot change to the other, then some are destined for salvation
and some are not even against your belief that man can choose. Its seems to me if man has a choice
(and that is what I believe also, alongside God making it possible and enabling him/her to do so), then
a tare can turn into a wheat, because we all were born as God's enemies and hostile toward Him.
I understand your view. But do me a favor. Read Acts 2:23. As Peter is preaching, does he credit the crucifixion of Jesus to both the foreknowledge and council of God as well as the deliberate free choice of men?
Yes, of course. But if God creates tares then how can it be said that the devil sowed them
into the field? And if all are not born wheat then some are born tares and do not have a
choice. Parables simply cannot be taken literally. Saying Jesus does not teach truth from
lies (as our lovely post did, though I may be paraphrasing somewhat) to teach something
that is not true is wrong. Either some are destined for damnation or all are born wheat,
and if all are not born wheat then tares can turn into wheat, and that never happens in real life.
You're right. And everything in a parable isn't necessarily teaching something. Discernment is required for understanding. Your assumption is that what Satan sowed was unsaved people. Are wheat and tares representing people?
Are tares not unsaved people? I thought that was the assumption all along, with the
tares being in juxtaposition against the wheat, which are the saved ones. Tares being
children of the prince of this world, which, are we not all born as such? We are of the
natural world until born again spiritually. Wheat. There is no neutral ground.
Why do you assume that? What does a field usually represent in a parable? Whatever grows, what does that normally represent?
Can Satan create people?
No => Satan creates nothing. But people are under his sway until born again, yes or no? The
Bible seems to be pretty clear that either the world’s inhabitants are under the influence of
the world with its cunning, deception, and spell, or they are in Christ and under the direction
of the Spirit of God. Wheat and tares. Back to Ephesians 2: And you were dead in your trespasses
and sins, in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler
of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. All of us also lived
among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts.
Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath. What do you take the tares to be? .