Spiritual gifts: Unconfusing them
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I suppose you could say that about animal sacrifice, as well....
You could "offer anything to God" with a sincere heart.... a song, a dance, a Christmas tree... but we are discussing the validity of true, Biblical manifestations of the Holy Spirit, not just something "offered to God".
You could "offer anything to God" with a sincere heart.... a song, a dance, a Christmas tree... but we are discussing the validity of true, Biblical manifestations of the Holy Spirit, not just something "offered to God".
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How did you miss this? We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. (2 Pet 1:19-21).
Why would it bother anyone if they don't understand me when I speak to God? Is it because I'm uttering mysteries in the spirit, and they'd rather I'd reveal those mysteries rather than keep it between God and me? How annoying would that be...It'd be like, "hey everybody, I've got a secret, a secret, a secret, and wouldn't you like to know! (Sung in the tune of nana nana boo boo). I'm speaking to God after all. But this is why I rarely speak my spiritual language in public, it would annoy anyone if I let on that I'm speaking to God but not letting on about what the conversation is about. It is affectively like whispering in one person's ear while looking directly at another person and letting them wonder what's being said. But prophecy is letting him in on the secret.
1Corinthians 14
Prophecy and Tongues
1Earnestly pursue love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. 2For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men, but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries in the Spirit. 3But he who prophesies speaks to men for their edification, encouragement, and comfort. 4The one who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but the one who prophesies edifies the church.
1Corinthians 14
Prophecy and Tongues
1Earnestly pursue love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. 2For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men, but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries in the Spirit. 3But he who prophesies speaks to men for their edification, encouragement, and comfort. 4The one who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but the one who prophesies edifies the church.
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You just berated another contributor for ‘missing’ a passage of Scripture, but it certainly looks like you have done the same thing:
“For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit…
and
“Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves”.
“For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit…
and
“Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves”.
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This passage is not ‘defining’ prophecy but rather stating the origin of the prophecy recorded in the Old Testament. VARob is absolutely correct in his citation of Paul. Your position pits one passage of Scripture against another. That the Holy Spirit is the author of all genuine prophecy does not mean that He intends all prophecy to be considered ‘Scripture’.
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Do you seriously think Paul was approving of this practice (without interpretation within the church)?
So since Paul was not contradicting himself regarding the purpose of spiritual gifts, He was actually telling the Corinthians to stop doing this. Don't forget that he also said that he would rather speak five words of prophesy than 10,000 words in tongues. Which puts things into proper perspective.
So since Paul was not contradicting himself regarding the purpose of spiritual gifts, He was actually telling the Corinthians to stop doing this. Don't forget that he also said that he would rather speak five words of prophesy than 10,000 words in tongues. Which puts things into proper perspective.
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N
That is simply not true at all. You say to others are they not aware of this verse or that verse, yet you either in ignorance or worse, willfully, leave out what Paul states in I Cor. 14 concerning the use of tongues.
1Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. 2For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. 3On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. 4The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. 5Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.
There are several references to or for the use of tongues. Let's all stop pretending those portions of scripture do not exist and only post scripture that does not mention all the references.
As for prophecy, the NT gift is not the same as the OT. ALL believers have the Holy Spirit within them and we have the Bible and should no longer be ignorant and unadvised. It is up to the person to pursue God and not a prophet acting on behalf of God. That being said, to prophesy also means to expound on the word and we find something about that as follows: v. 3 from I Cor.14
3On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation
The problem of misapplication and refusing to understand seems to occur when a person is a cessationist with regards to tongues AND the meaning of prophecy as used by Paul and has decided there is no more understanding to be had, after all, knowledge has also passed away so no need of further enlightenment.
Yes, it is a problem that snowballs from one refusal to deciding a large portion of scripture is no longer applicable.
For those who have decided this, they are self fulfilling what they say and wrongly teach.
We also have the gift of a word of knowledge which some mistakenly see as prophecy but I guess if a person does not expect any communication from the Holy Spirit, they will not acknowledge that either. There are still prophecies being given on occasion, of future events, although charlatans abound and discernment is not in use much anymore. Any word that supposedly issues from the Holy Spirit, should agree with the written word. There are also dreams that are sometimes given to individuals that often, are for that person only but sometimes for others.
NO ONE PERSON should EVER take charge over others with their dreams or supposed prophecies. Sadly, this does happen and results in people going astray while thinking they are following God. This is a doctrine that is not taught much and certainly not with biblical guidelines which is why we have 'every second person' fancying themselves to be a prophet. That's nonsense and the people who follow such have itching ears. Be a Berean.
1Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. 2For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. 3On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. 4The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. 5Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.
There are several references to or for the use of tongues. Let's all stop pretending those portions of scripture do not exist and only post scripture that does not mention all the references.
As for prophecy, the NT gift is not the same as the OT. ALL believers have the Holy Spirit within them and we have the Bible and should no longer be ignorant and unadvised. It is up to the person to pursue God and not a prophet acting on behalf of God. That being said, to prophesy also means to expound on the word and we find something about that as follows: v. 3 from I Cor.14
3On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation
The problem of misapplication and refusing to understand seems to occur when a person is a cessationist with regards to tongues AND the meaning of prophecy as used by Paul and has decided there is no more understanding to be had, after all, knowledge has also passed away so no need of further enlightenment.
Yes, it is a problem that snowballs from one refusal to deciding a large portion of scripture is no longer applicable.
For those who have decided this, they are self fulfilling what they say and wrongly teach.
We also have the gift of a word of knowledge which some mistakenly see as prophecy but I guess if a person does not expect any communication from the Holy Spirit, they will not acknowledge that either. There are still prophecies being given on occasion, of future events, although charlatans abound and discernment is not in use much anymore. Any word that supposedly issues from the Holy Spirit, should agree with the written word. There are also dreams that are sometimes given to individuals that often, are for that person only but sometimes for others.
NO ONE PERSON should EVER take charge over others with their dreams or supposed prophecies. Sadly, this does happen and results in people going astray while thinking they are following God. This is a doctrine that is not taught much and certainly not with biblical guidelines which is why we have 'every second person' fancying themselves to be a prophet. That's nonsense and the people who follow such have itching ears. Be a Berean.
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I'm too often finding myself wondering if there are more than the apparent participants involved in the conversation(s) that I'm engaged in. And I suppose this will go without saying and what I should expect when engaged in conversations where there is disagreement, considering the scripture, "where two or more gather together in My name, there I am with them (Matthew 8:20)." There are a lot that gather here in John's name, or Bill's name, or Karen's name, etc. so I can't help but wonder who is 'with us' then.
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When and where? It would be interesting to hear those, and let others observe whether the "prophecies" come true.... I mean, other than the friends and associates of the "prophesyer" saying, 'yep it happend, just like he/she said'
Real, actual accounts of prophesies of future events that actually were accurate.
I haven't seen it.... or heard of it. It would be interesting to see...
Real, actual accounts of prophesies of future events that actually were accurate.
I haven't seen it.... or heard of it. It would be interesting to see...