Spiritual gifts: Unconfusing them

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V

VARob

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#21
Dec 21, 2020
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#21
DJT_47 said:
So tell us exactly what you've been shown or told. What word of wisdom? What word of knowledge? What exactly was involved on your discernment of spirits? What wad said in your "tongues" and to whom? What exactly was revealed to you?
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You are coming at this from the position of a cessationist, a skeptic. No matter what I said about my personal experiences, you would find fault.

But I will address part of it. When a person speaks in tongues he is not speaking to men, but to God (1 Cor 14:2). When a person speaks in tongues he is speaking the wonderful works of God (Acts 2:11), they are magnifying God (Acts 10:47), they are giving thanks well (1 Cor 14:17), they are speaking divine secrets (1 Cor 14:2), and they are praying in the spirit (1 Cor 14:14-15). When a person speaks in tongues and interprets in the church, the interpretation will primarily be words of prayer and praise to God.

The manifestation of prophecy is speaking words of edification, exhortation, and comfort to the church (1 Cor 14:3), the people gathered at that time. It is not "adding to the Bible," it is not "predicting the future."

God would like all Christians to speak in tongues (1 Cor 14:5), and we are to "covet to prophesy" (1 Cor 14:39).
 
Blade

Blade

Well-known member
#22
Nov 19, 2019
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#22
DJT_47 said:
I don't want to belabor this, but for clarification for you and your edification, the spiritual gifts were imparted by the laying on of the apostle's hands. No more apostles = no more miraculous gifts.

Also, don't confuse the gift, singular, of the Holy Spirit or Ghost (Acts 2:38), with the gifts, plural. Acts 2:38 means that upon baptism, those baptized receive the indwelling of the Spirit itself and not the various miraculous gifts administered by the Spirit.
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Christ goes into this town and all He aka GOD could do was lay hands on a few and teach because of unbelief. I still see today all the gifts working. Head on over to some 3rd world country and you will be in for a shock. See as long as we say the gifts are dead what do you expect the sweet holy Spirit to do? He can't go against your will. Those people that doubt they told God gifts are gone and fact is they will never see them. He can't go against your will.

Whats written is "when" that which is perfect is come "but when the perfect comes". Lets see Christ? Not can't be Him for He came and rose and went up already. This world when Christ walked it belonged to Satan and Christ went up even today Satan is still the god of this world. We still have blind dead deaf lame you name yet even more then ever. I LOVE LOVE LOVE this one.. back of the Church preacher came for a week lady up there crying kinda screaming like jumping.. I asked my friend who is she? He said see all the people here? About 1/2 came with her because she was blind. Just a simple IN JESUS NAME! I am 62 today and I still see all those gifts working and fact Satan cant do them so.. if its not Satan cant be.. then hmm seems that which is prefect has NOT come.

Fact I can say God. Christ, Sweet holy Spirit never told anyone the gifts are gone have stopped. You anyone can pray with a open mind heart knowing you/I could be wrong and just ASK Him to show you in His word they are not dead. Most wont do this for they really don't care. See it will take TIME to pray to seek Him to wait on Him. Its like luke 11:13 as a believer if you ask the Father for the sweet holy Spirit...that is all you will get. You can't get any other spirit as in not of God. Or God is a liar. So asking Him believing for those gifts as HE moves what do you think is going to happen? Talk to HIM! Ask HIM don't believe a word I say. JESUS Christ is real. Hes more real then your spouse your best friend. Not some feeling. Learn to listen. Learn you can be wrong and only HE is right. If its Him He will give you a peace Satan can't and He will show you in His word where is written.. Anyway.. your free believe what you want. And those you follow as in man all you get is only what they personally believe. So you seek you study you find this.. then you ask Him to confirm it.
 
D

DJT_47

Well-known member
#23
Oct 20, 2022
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#23
VARob said:
You are coming at this from the position of a cessationist, a skeptic. No matter what I said about my personal experiences, you would find fault.

But I will address part of it. When a person speaks in tongues he is not speaking to men, but to God (1 Cor 14:2). When a person speaks in tongues he is speaking the wonderful works of God (Acts 2:11), they are magnifying God (Acts 10:47), they are giving thanks well (1 Cor 14:17), they are speaking divine secrets (1 Cor 14:2), and they are praying in the spirit (1 Cor 14:14-15). When a person speaks in tongues and interprets in the church, the interpretation will primarily be words of prayer and praise to God.

The manifestation of prophecy is speaking words of edification, exhortation, and comfort to the church (1 Cor 14:3), the people gathered at that time. It is not "adding to the Bible," it is not "predicting the future."

God would like all Christians to speak in tongues (1 Cor 14:5), and we are to "covet to prophesy" (1 Cor 14:39).
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Believe what you like, but the miraculous gifts have ceased long ago as have the apostles by whom the gifts were manifested.
 
D

DJT_47

Well-known member
#24
Oct 20, 2022
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#24
Blade said:
Christ goes into this town and all He aka GOD could do was lay hands on a few and teach because of unbelief. I still see today all the gifts working. Head on over to some 3rd world country and you will be in for a shock. See as long as we say the gifts are dead what do you expect the sweet holy Spirit to do? He can't go against your will. Those people that doubt they told God gifts are gone and fact is they will never see them. He can't go against your will.

Whats written is "when" that which is perfect is come "but when the perfect comes". Lets see Christ? Not can't be Him for He came and rose and went up already. This world when Christ walked it belonged to Satan and Christ went up even today Satan is still the god of this world. We still have blind dead deaf lame you name yet even more then ever. I LOVE LOVE LOVE this one.. back of the Church preacher came for a week lady up there crying kinda screaming like jumping.. I asked my friend who is she? He said see all the people here? About 1/2 came with her because she was blind. Just a simple IN JESUS NAME! I am 62 today and I still see all those gifts working and fact Satan cant do them so.. if its not Satan cant be.. then hmm seems that which is prefect has NOT come.

Fact I can say God. Christ, Sweet holy Spirit never told anyone the gifts are gone have stopped. You anyone can pray with a open mind heart knowing you/I could be wrong and just ASK Him to show you in His word they are not dead. Most wont do this for they really don't care. See it will take TIME to pray to seek Him to wait on Him. Its like luke 11:13 as a believer if you ask the Father for the sweet holy Spirit...that is all you will get. You can't get any other spirit as in not of God. Or God is a liar. So asking Him believing for those gifts as HE moves what do you think is going to happen? Talk to HIM! Ask HIM don't believe a word I say. JESUS Christ is real. Hes more real then your spouse your best friend. Not some feeling. Learn to listen. Learn you can be wrong and only HE is right. If its Him He will give you a peace Satan can't and He will show you in His word where is written.. Anyway.. your free believe what you want. And those you follow as in man all you get is only what they personally believe. So you seek you study you find this.. then you ask Him to confirm it.
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What I know is what the scriptures say and they clearly say that the miraculous gifts, as I just stated to someone else here, have ceased since they were manifested by the laying on of the apostle's hands ler the scriptures I cited, and the apostles have been dead for a very long time.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#25
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#25
DJT_47 said:
Believe what you like, but the miraculous gifts have ceased long ago as have the apostles by whom the gifts were manifested.
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So, no miracles anymore or God does them directly?
 
D

DJT_47

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#28
Oct 20, 2022
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#28
Cameron143 said:
They were never done by people. They were done through people.
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They WERE done by people, the apostles, as well as those on whom they laid their hands such as Stephen, as noted in Acts 5:8

8And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#29
Mar 1, 2022
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#29
DJT_47 said:
They WERE done by people, the apostles, as well as those on whom they laid their hands such as Stephen, as noted in Acts 5:8

8And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.
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Sure. But whose faith and power was He filled with?
 
V

VARob

Banned
#30
Dec 21, 2020
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#30
DJT_47 said:
Believe what you like, but the miraculous gifts have ceased long ago as have the apostles by whom the gifts were manifested.
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That ^^^ is YOU believing what you like. :) Or what your church has told you.
 
D

DJT_47

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#32
Oct 20, 2022
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#32
VARob said:
That ^^^ is YOU believing what you like. :) Or what your church has told you.
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I cited a half dozen scriptures that clearly show that the apostles had the power and ability to pass it on to others by the laying on of their hands. It's not my thoughts, it's what the bible says.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#33
Mar 1, 2022
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#33
DJT_47 said:
That's obvious. I simply responded to your posting.
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My point was that the Apostles didn't have the power themselves. It was manifested through them. It didn't reside in them but came upon them and was communicated through them.
Whatever gifts you believe are still manifested, they are not under the control of the individual. They are manifested in and through them at the good pleasure of the Holy Spirit.
 
V

VARob

Banned
#34
Dec 21, 2020
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#34
DJT_47 said:
I cited a half dozen scriptures that clearly show that the apostles had the power and ability to pass it on to others by the laying on of their hands. It's not my thoughts, it's what the bible says.
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1 Cor 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

1 Cor 14:23 f therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

Do you believe that Paul or another apostle laid hands on every single Corinthian believer? I doubt it..

What about this?
1 Cor 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

1 Cor 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
Notice that Paul does not say "Wherefore, brethren whom have had the hands of an apostle laid on them, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues."
 
V

VARob

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#35
Dec 21, 2020
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#35
Cameron143 said:
Whatever gifts you believe are still manifested, they are not under the control of the individual.
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Some are:
1 Cor 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

Also, the person who is speaking in tongues is in complete control of what he is doing.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#36
Mar 1, 2022
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#36
VARob said:
Some are:
1 Cor 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

Also, the person who is speaking in tongues is in complete control of what he is doing.
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Not sure that means what you think it does.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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#38
Jul 18, 2017
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#38
VARob said:
1 Cor 14:23 f therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
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So now that you know that all will not speak in tongues, and if they tried it would be madness, it is time to close this chapter on tongues and move on. Modern tongues are simply not biblical tongues, and you should know that by now.
 
D

DJT_47

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#39
Oct 20, 2022
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#39
VARob said:
1 Cor 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

1 Cor 14:23 f therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

Do you believe that Paul or another apostle laid hands on every single Corinthian believer? I doubt it..

What about this?
1 Cor 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

1 Cor 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
Notice that Paul does not say "Wherefore, brethren whom have had the hands of an apostle laid on them, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues."
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Verse 28 below says God set SOME in the church which infers that not every, single, person has some sort of gift. Also, 1 Cor 14:12 appears to support the fact that not all had gifts but rather they were zealous for gifts.

1 Cor 12:28

28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

Also, see the interlinear Greek of 1 Cor 12:7 which doesn't say "every man" as does the above version you cited. It says "each", and not inferring everyone, but rather each with a gift.
 
V

VARob

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#40
Dec 21, 2020
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#40
Nehemiah6 said:
So now that you know that all will not speak in tongues,
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I already knew that. Until Christ returns, there will always be people like you.

and if they tried it would be madness,
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..which is why Paul said not to do it. In the church, there should be two or three who do it, in order, and they must interpret (1 Cor 14:27).

it is time to close this chapter on tongues and move on.
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For you and other cessationists, that chapter was closed before it opened.

Modern tongues are simply not biblical tongues, and you should know that by now.
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Speaking in tongues is speaking in tongues. You should not be so close-minded, thinking you know everything. You don't.
 
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