Zionism among the Evangelicals is contradicted by Scripture

[IsaiahA]

Yes, it is about Replacement Theology. You just gave the very definition by your response. There is no way you can read Romans 11 and not know better. In your view the Jews get all the curses and the church gets all the blessings. That came from some of the early church fathers, Martin in particular who came from the Catholic faith and never dropped their Antisemitic views.

Try addressing the scriptures instead of throwing about a label.

 

[IsaiahA]

Yes, it is about Replacement Theology. You just gave the very definition by your response. There is no way you can read Romans 11 and not know better. In your view the Jews get all the curses and the church gets all the blessings. That came from some of the early church fathers, Martin in particular who came from the Catholic faith and never dropped their Antisemitic views.

Again, prove your argument from scripture, not throwing about a label that is apparently coined by the modernists, called dispensationalists.... arriving on the scene in the latter 1800s!

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Try addressing the scriptures instead of throwing about a label.

The "label" is there because you are denying what the Scriptures say!!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Yes, it definitely is and as usual the person espousing it doesn't know that they are. So I just gave them a definition.

Well I am learning here so this is a bit interesting to me. I personally cannot find it in Scripture, but how the idealism behind the doctrine is certainly motivated. It's a personal open thought from the Pulpit about personal feelings towards the people of God. And they were too Ignorant to know they were preaching Hatred, not Biblical Fact.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

NO, this thread is not about the modern straw man of "Replacement Theology", but this is a label placed on the historical Christian understanding of the Bible by the church. The weird theology of dispensationalism never showed up until the latter 1800s. I was accused earlier in this thread of teaching "Replacement Theology" so I answered this in the previous reply.

So someone is accusing another that Replacement Theology is actually Dispensation?

 

[Cameron143]

If a Jewish man lives and dies never having been saved, is he considered as one of the family of God?

 

[Cameron143]

So someone is accusing another that Replacement Theology is actually Dispensation?

Dispensationalism just means that God has dealt with mankind differently at different times. Everyone should be a dispensationalist.

 

[Aaron56]

Dispensationalism just means that God has dealt with mankind differently at different times. Everyone should be a dispensationalist.

To a point. The mistake dispensationalists make is to postulate that God will never deal with current or future generations in a manner He has before.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

If a Jewish man lives and dies never having been saved, is he considered a one of the family of God?

Not without Christ.

But any Jew that lives in Israel and has heritage and Yeshua is his Lord and Savior is a Jew in the current Lineage. All of Them!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Dispensationalism just means that God has dealt with mankind differently at different times. Everyone should be a dispensationalist.

I agree 👍

 

[Cameron143]

To a point. The mistake dispensationalists make is to postulate that God will never deal with current or future generations in a manner He has before.

It's a good point but neither does it necessitate that He does. God has progressively dealt with humanity. If He does, it will break with His established pattern.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

It's a good point but neither does it necessitate that He does. God has progressively dealt with humanity. If He does, it will break with His established pattern.

Same Yesterday, Today, and Forever..

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

If a Jewish man lives and dies never having been saved, is he considered as one of the family of God?

Are you speaking of those in the OT.

 

[Aaron56]

When I was baptized in water, the Lord accounted it as burial into Christ's death. Having ended the hold that was previously on me, because of the flesh I shared with Adam, God raised me with new life characterized by being led by the Holy Spirit. I was then able to be adopted as a son of God by the Father. I became a new creation, not according to my flesh, but according to the Holy Spirit and according my inclusion in Christ.

Does the same happen to a believing Jew? Or does he remain Abraham's descendant according to the flesh after he is buired in Christ's death?

 

[Cameron143]

Not without Christ.

But any Jew that lives in Israel and has heritage and Yeshua is his Lord and Savior is a Jew in the current Lineage. All of Them!

That just means they have received the fulness of the promise God made to Abraham. If not, their lineage may have introduced them to the oracles and promises of God, but they will perish in their sins.
The point is, in the New Covenant there is neither Jew or Gent. Unless there is another Covenant coming, this will not change.

 

[Aaron56]

It's a good point but neither does it necessitate that He does. God has progressively dealt with humanity. If He does, it will break with His established pattern.

It is true that, although God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, that He deals with man progressively: e.g. The revelation and understanding we have today was not available to men of old.

 

[Cameron143]

Are you speaking of those in the OT.

No. Today.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Again, prove your argument from scripture, not throwing about a label that is apparently coined by the modernists, called dispensationalists.... arriving on the scene in the latter 1800s!

As I said, this is a bad weather day for me. But we need to start at the beginning. There were covenants that God made with Abe and his descendants, and that was an unconditional and everlasting covenant. There is where we begin. That promise of land was expanded with the Palestinian Covenant. The Jews have not yet had all the land promised to them and that is where prophesy begins with Israels return in 1948. This is the beginning of the subject. If you're not around to discuss it I will wait until you return so we can continue.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

No. Today.

Yes, following along here, was a bit behind.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

That just means they have received the fulness of the promise God made to Abraham. If not, their lineage may have introduced them to the oracles and promises of God, but they will perish in their sins.
The point is, in the New Covenant there is neither Jew or Gent. Unless there is another Covenant coming, this will not change.

Are you familiar with the specifics concerning the last portion of Tribulation after the Temple has been defiled. 144k Evangelists will erupt into a spectacle and Revival will kick off and All people including masses and masses of Jews are giving their lives to Christ?

Since the Old Covenant, through the DBR, until Now, and even PAST when the Gentile Reign ends and Tribulation begins and ALL THE WAY THROUGH to the very ends of Tribulation, JEWS have been, were, still are, and will be Coming to Jesus.

That has never ended, just made for everyone.