Meaning Baptism of the Holy Spirit

[Nehemiah6]

and then a second for those subsequently baptized in fire to receive empowerment for ministry. (Matthew 3:11)

If you stick with the context the baptism with fire is for damnation. It has nothing to do with believers. So let's look a t the context:
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

So on one hand believers will be baptized with the Holy Ghost, and unbelievers will be baptized with unquenchable fire. That is the fire of eternal Hell. So how do Christians get so mixed up when the context is so clear?

 

[Nehemiah6]

No. It is only one gift among many. We are not to covet or hold any one gift above another.

You are correct. As a matter of fact Paul said that he would rather speak five intelligible words of prophecy than 10,000 words in tongues! Does that put things into perspective? Tongues have been elevated way beyond what Scripture allows, and there are many counterfeit tongues also.

 

[Elijah777]

If you stick with the context the baptism with fire is for damnation. It has nothing to do with believers. So let's look a t the context:
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

So on one hand believers will be baptized with the Holy Ghost, and unbelievers will be baptized with unquenchable fire. That is the fire of eternal Hell. So how do Christians get so mixed up when the context is so clear?

ANSWER TO YOU !

YOU use MATTHEW 3.10 -12 ... to wrongly INFER THAT ... LUKE 3.16 ... MEANS HELL FIRE. Wow that's inventive and dishonest !

Read Luke 3.16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he [ Jesus ] shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Jesus said, He was going to BAPTIZE with HS and fire. The tongues of fire is seen in Acts 2:3. In no way can this mean what you said. Acts 2.3 proves/defines what Jesus said.

Jesus doesn't / didn't baptize His 120 with HELL FIRE !

 

[Nehemiah6]

YOU use MATTHEW 3.10 -12 ... to wrongly INFER THAT ... LUKE 3.16 ... MEANS HELL FIRE. Wow that's inventive and dishonest !

You are falsely accusing me of being dishonest. So let me show you that Luke 3 says the very same thing: 16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire: 17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

What is unquenchable fire in the Bible, and for whom was it created? Christ said that Hell (the Lake of Fire) was created for the devil and his angels. But that is not the only purpose of Hell. Here is what the Bible says about "the chaff" -- those destined for "unquenchable fire": But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Rev 21:8)

In your zeal to promote the false idea of everyone speaking in tongues, you have gone into another error. The context of the passage makes it clear that the fire that John the Baptist was talking about was the fire of Hell. Also the word "purge" means purify. God will purify the earth by removing all sin and evil from it.

 

[Vindicator]

Not necessarily. Please note that there are several ways that en can be translated, depending on the context:
Strong's Concordance
en: in, on, at, by, with
Original Word: ἐν
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: en
Phonetic Spelling: (en)
Definition: in, on, at, by, with
Usage: in, on, among.

THE MAJORITY OF ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS HAVE "WITH". CASE CLOSED
New International Version
"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
New Living Translation
"I baptize with water those who repent of their sins and turn to God. But someone is coming soon who is greater than I am--so much greater that I'm not worthy even to be his slave and carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
English Standard Version
“I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Berean Study Bible
I baptize you with water for repentance, but after me will come One more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
New American Standard Bible
"As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
King James Bible
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Holman Christian Standard Bible
I baptize you with water for repentance, but the One who is coming after me is more powerful than I. I am not worthy to remove His sandals. He Himself will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
International Standard Version
I am baptizing you with water as evidence of repentance, but the one who is coming after me is stronger than I am, and I am not worthy to carry his sandals. It is he who will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
NET Bible
"I baptize you with water, for repentance, but the one coming after me is more powerful than I am--I am not worthy to carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
I baptize you with water so that you will change the way you think and act. But the one who comes after me is more powerful than I. I am not worthy to remove his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
English Revised Version
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Webster's Bible Translation
I indeed baptize you with water to repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with fire:
Young's Literal Translation
'I indeed do baptize you with water to reformation, but he who after me is coming is mightier than I, of whom I am not worthy to bear the sandals, he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire,

I'm aware of all that, Nehemiah, as I study the languages. But even your Strong's reference cites "In" as its primary definition, because that's what the word literally means in strict translation. If you assume, after openly admitting that the word can be translated in several different ways, that the word's primary meaning however unequivocally CANNOT be the proper translation, how does supposition prove that the case is closed, and that is the end of discussion, and no one need ever think about it ever again?

 

[Nehemiah6]

...how does your mere supposition prove that the case is closed, and that is the end of discussion, and no one need ever think about it ever again?

Quite simple. The MAJORITY of translations (and translators) chose WITH in spite of all the options. Which means case closed. That also fits in with the rest of what John said.

 

[Vindicator]

If you stick with the context the baptism with fire is for damnation. It has nothing to do with believers. So let's look a t the context:
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

So on one hand believers will be baptized with the Holy Ghost, and unbelievers will be baptized with unquenchable fire. That is the fire of eternal Hell. So how do Christians get so mixed up when the context is so clear?

Then you do not believe that tongues of Fire came to rest upon the disciple's heads on the Day of Pentecost? That is what the phrase "the Holy Ghost and Fire" is referring to. The way you are interpreting it is an extremely unnatural reading in the original. Nowhere in scripture will you find couplings like this that are referring to two opposite subjects in mid phrase without any qualifiers, the natural reading is that they are referring to and being directed upon the same subject.

 

[Elijah777]

If you stick with the context the baptism with fire is for damnation. It has nothing to do with believers. So let's look a t the context:
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

So on one hand believers will be baptized with the Holy Ghost, and unbelievers will be baptized with unquenchable fire. That is the fire of eternal Hell. So how do Christians get so mixed up when the context is so clear?

You are falsely accusing me of being dishonest. So let me show you that Luke 3 says the very same thing: 16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire: 17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

What is unquenchable fire in the Bible, and for whom was it created? Christ said that Hell (the Lake of Fire) was created for the devil and his angels. But that is not the only purpose of Hell. Here is what the Bible says about "the chaff" -- those destined for "unquenchable fire": But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Rev 21:8)

In your zeal to promote the false idea of everyone speaking in tongues, you have gone into another error. The context of the passage makes it clear that the fire that John the Baptist was talking about was the fire of Hell.

Nehemiah 6.

Please ... Luke 3.16 ... John says ... Jesus is going to BAPTIZE believes with HS and FIRE. Do you say that means HELL fire ? No, the proof is ACTS 2.3 " cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them [ ALL 120 ]"

Clearly, Luke 3.17 HAS TO BE talking about another matter altogether ... yes Jesus gathers His elect ... then THE "chaff" = unbelievers [ not Christians ] are BURNED [ not baptized with fire like the Christian IN ABOVE VERSE ] ... BURNED in hell ! This is proper dissection/interpretation of vs 17.

Your are MISTAKENLY [ putting it politely ] ... mixing up the two verses.

 

[Vindicator]

Which means case closed.

It means your mind is closed, Lol.

Ok, I can see where this is going. Talk to you later then.

Peace,
- H

 

[Elijah777]

It means your mind is closed, Lol.

Ok, I can see where this is going. Talk to you later then.

Peace,
- H

Sorry I'm new to this forum and still having trouble navigating. I cannot see what you are referring to. " It means your mind is closed, Lol. "

What is my mind closed about ?

 

[Vindicator]

Sorry I'm new to this forum and still having trouble navigating. I cannot see what you are referring to. " It means your mind is closed, Lol. "

What is my mind closed about ?

I was quoting Nehemiah 6, who was trying to tell me I need to make sure I don't think for myself, case closed, Lol.

It wasn't directed at you. My apologies if I did anything to make you think it was.

 

[Elijah777]

I was quoting Nehemiah 6, who was trying to tell me I need to make sure I don't think for myself, case closed, Lol.

It wasn't directed at you. My apologies if I did anything to make you think it was.

 

[Elijah777]

OK Vindicator. I think you agree with me ... Luke 3.16 John says Jesus will Baptize the believers with HS AND fire ... and this truth is evidenced/fulfilled in Acts 2.3 " And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. "

 

[Vindicator]

OK Vindicator. I think you agree with me ... Luke 3.16 John says Jesus will Baptize the believers with HS AND fire ... and this truth is evidenced/fulfilled in Acts 2.3 " And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. "

Yes, so far I think we're in full agreement actually.

I'd send you a conversation, only I'm just checking back with this forum for the first time in more than a year or so I think, and haven't yet decided if I want to become a paid member or not (you have to have a paid membership to start conversations with others).

 

[Elijah777]

Then you do not believe that tongues of Fire came to rest upon the disciple's heads on the Day of Pentecost? That is what the phrase "the Holy Ghost and Fire" is referring to. The way you are interpreting it is an extremely unnatural reading in the original. Nowhere in scripture will you find couplings like this that are referring to two opposite subjects in mid phrase without any qualifiers, the natural reading is that they are referring to and being directed upon the same subject.

YES ... I totally agree with Vindicator ... Nehemiah 6 ... is unnaturally mixing up Luke 3.16 with Luke 3.17.

In Luke 3.16 ... John says the BELIEVERS ... will be ... baptized ... with FIRE. That cannot mean hell fire as Nehemiah 6 is trying to say.

As you [ Vindicator ] ... correctly say ... Acts 2.3 ... is the proof/fulfillment ... of Luke 3.16 promise.

 

[Elijah777]

Yes, so far I think we're in full agreement actually.

I'd send you a conversation, only I'm just checking back with this forum for the first time in more than a year or so I think, and haven't yet decided if I want to become a paid member or not (you have to have a paid membership to start conversations with others).

Me too ... not paid member yet ... and debating.

I feel Nehemiah 6 is a "sincere" person ... but his unbiblical aversion to the REAL tongues ... causes him to mix up scripture references ... blinds his eyes ... from seeing ... that what born again Christians need ... is the BAPTISM OF HOLY SPIRIT ... then the gift of tongues is the EVIDENCE that this has occured in a believer's life. Tongues is the evidence of the Holy Spirit baptism has occured. God has real tongues for Beiievers today ! Why worry about the devil's tricks and desceptions !

 

[Nehemiah6]

I was quoting Nehemiah 6, who was trying to tell me I need to make sure I don't think for myself, case closed, Lol.

You can think for yourself all you want. But you cannot change what the majority of translators -- FOR GOOD REASON -- chose when they translated en. You are simply tilting at windmills (a la Don Quixote).

 

[Nehemiah6]

Tongues is the evidence of the Holy Spirit baptism has occured.

Out of the millions of Christians who were saved since Pentecost, what small fraction spoke in tongues? Do you have any idea? So you are actually claiming that the majority of Christians did not receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Which is total nonsense. Even the 3,000 Jews who were saved on the day of Pentecost did not speak in tongues. Had they done so, it would have certainly been recorded.

 

[Vindicator]

I feel Nehemiah 6 is a "sincere" person ...

I think he has absolutely no ears to hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches, but it wouldn't be the first I've ever encountered it before.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I think he has absolutely no ears to hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches, but it wouldn't be the first I've ever encountered it before.

What the Spirit is saying to the churches is this "Christians stop wasting time on useless discussions and get on with the job that you are all supposed to be doing!"