Baptizing

[montana123]

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.

We have to identify with the man Christ Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection, by repenting of our sins, being baptized in water, and receiving the Holy Spirit which is the salvation plan of God.

It is the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, and you cannot cut out the burial part.

1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father.

They say we only have to have faith, and baptism is a work, but faith is a work, for everything we do and think is a work.

 

[DJT_47]

So Romans 10:9 is not true?
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

What about Eph 1:13?
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Romans 10:9 is equally true and also a requirement but not as a stand-alone scripture. When you consider all pertinent scriptures related to salvation, you end up with the following short list of requirements
1. Belief and faith
2. Confession of belief as did the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8 and in harmony with Romans 10:9
3. Repentance as were the Jews told to do on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:38
4. Immersion in water, baptism, for the remission of sins also per Acts 2:38

The above is the complete list of requirements to he saved. All are required and not just one

 

[VARob]

Romans 10:9 is equally true and also a requirement but not as a stand-alone scripture. When you consider all pertinent scriptures related to salvation, you end up with the following short list of requirements
1. Belief and faith
2. Confession of belief as did the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8 and in harmony with Romans 10:9
3. Repentance as were the Jews told to do on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:38
4. Immersion in water, baptism, for the remission of sins also per Acts 2:38

The above is the complete list of requirements to he saved. All are required and not just one

I agree with the first three. A person cannot confess Jesus Christ as Lord without repenting, realizing they're a sinner in need of salvation.

If immersion in water was necessary, Paul would not have omitted it when he tells people how to become saved (Rom 10:9,) or how they received the gift of the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13). Also, he would have actively been baptizing people instead of telling us he was not sent to baptize (1 Cor 1:17). Preaching the gospel, giving people the opportunity to hear it so they can choose to believe it is what's important.

 

[DJT_47]

I agree with the first three. A person cannot confess Jesus Christ as Lord without repenting, realizing they're a sinner in need of salvation.

If immersion in water was necessary, Paul would not have omitted it when he tells people how to become saved (Rom 10:9,) or how they received the gift of the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13). Also, he would have actively been baptizing people instead of telling us he was not sent to baptize (1 Cor 1:17). Preaching the gospel, giving people the opportunity to hear it so they can choose to believe it is what's important.

Do really think that the complete requirements are always stated? They never are nor does it make sense when considering the context of the various letters and who they were written to and why. The various documents are not a and were nor considered to each be a textbook which is why you must put all scripture together on any subject to get the complete picture, i.e., there are 4 gospels. Why? To tell the story from different perspectives and to highlight slightly different things. We need all 4 gospels just as we need all the various NT letters, to gain a more concise picture. The various OT and NT scriptures cannot be viewed as complete in and of themselves, but when tied together is when you can get the true, complete understanding of the message in its entirety.

 

[Nehemiah6]

My parents had me sprinkled as an infant in the Presbyterian church. I have not been water baptized since (I'm 70). It there any hope for me?

Sure there is. You are still a spring chicken. Moses was 120 years old and still going strong. Anyhow, if you are associated with a Bible-believing church (or if there is one near you) which practices baptism by immersion, speak to the pastor and tell him that you wish to be baptized as a believer (while you give your Christian testimony to all just before you are baptized). This might even cause many others to join you, and there could be a string of baptisms on that day. That could have a huge impact in that church.

When I got saved (from reading the Word of God), no human being told me to be baptized. I saw what was in Scripture and asked the pastor of the church we were attending to baptize me immediately. There was an elderly couple in that church who had never been baptized (and were scared of the water). But when they heard that I would be baptized, they decided "enough is enough" and came, and were baptized immediately after me. Then they went home rejoicing.

 

[DJT_47]

I agree with the first three. A person cannot confess Jesus Christ as Lord without repenting, realizing they're a sinner in need of salvation.

If immersion in water was necessary, Paul would not have omitted it when he tells people how to become saved (Rom 10:9,) or how they received the gift of the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13). Also, he would have actively been baptizing people instead of telling us he was not sent to baptize (1 Cor 1:17). Preaching the gospel, giving people the opportunity to hear it so they can choose to believe it is what's important.

Also, I read another of your responses to someone else stating you were sprinkled as an infant. You weren't baptized! You were sprinkled. Two distinctly different Greek words which are not interchangeable. Baptism comes from the Greek word baptizo which means to dip, plunge, immerse and it's not translated but transliterated. You asked, "is there any you hope for me"? Yes, but not in your present state. You MUST be baptized! Also, as an infant you you couldn't believe which is the first of the requirements. Hearing the word of God, then believing it, then acting upon your belief by faith. Hope this helps you. See below and seek out a local congregation who will help you.

https://www.church-of-christ.org/directories/churches.html

 

[jb]

I read that people who are saved may not have been baptized by water, and I also read and I know that people have been baptized in water before they were saved, and I also read that people also get baptized after they are saved just to show their brothers and sisters in Christ that they believe, and believe a person should be baptized, I also read people regularly get baptized but why i don't understand the reason.

Christening off a newborn baby child, people say the earlier you can get this done the better. And people say that christening is an act by where you offer your child up to the lord so that the lord watches over your child. Is the child saved at this point but only in father hood way. Kinda of like the old t where the father watched over the 12 tribes of Jerusalem. But they hadn't received the spirit of Jesus. But if your child was born into a save family, would water baptism still be needed.

I know that people believe that confessing your sins with a sincere heart is a must befor one is saved, and water baptism is not needed for this, and believe baptism then follows from the holy spirit.

Then I read We are all born with a sin nature, so it is vital to confess your sins with a sincere heart befor being saved.

I also read that Certain types of bad spirits could not be cast out of people by mentioning the lord Jesus name unless the person fasted first,
And continuous prayer was offered up. For a person to be able to have the state of mind to fast, I would have thought they must also be able to have a state of mind to speak and confess with a sincere heart there sins. But then am i to believe in this case, it may not be enough because that person must fast first. I read Such person may not even know there possessed I'm told.

Are there any Christians here who feal they did not receive the holy spirit the first time they asked.

Maybe this could be for 1 or two reasons they did not confess there sins with a sincere heart,
or they hadn't fasted first.

Your thoughts please.

And possibly I would like to hear from any available pastor who may visit this site or be a member here, for this as I'm so scared for my mum and dad,

we have an person in our house who possibly he has a bad spirit in him.

A couple of studies you should find helpful can be found Here and Here

 

[Locoponydirtman]

I read that people who are saved may not have been baptized by water, and I also read and I know that people have been baptized in water before they were saved, and I also read that people also get baptized after they are saved just to show their brothers and sisters in Christ that they believe, and believe a person should be baptized, I also read people regularly get baptized but why i don't understand the reason.

Christening off a newborn baby child, people say the earlier you can get this done the better. And people say that christening is an act by where you offer your child up to the lord so that the lord watches over your child. Is the child saved at this point but only in father hood way. Kinda of like the old t where the father watched over the 12 tribes of Jerusalem. But they hadn't received the spirit of Jesus. But if your child was born into a save family, would water baptism still be needed.

I know that people believe that confessing your sins with a sincere heart is a must befor one is saved, and water baptism is not needed for this, and believe baptism then follows from the holy spirit.

Then I read We are all born with a sin nature, so it is vital to confess your sins with a sincere heart befor being saved.

I also read that Certain types of bad spirits could not be cast out of people by mentioning the lord Jesus name unless the person fasted first,
And continuous prayer was offered up. For a person to be able to have the state of mind to fast, I would have thought they must also be able to have a state of mind to speak and confess with a sincere heart there sins. But then am i to believe in this case, it may not be enough because that person must fast first. I read Such person may not even know there possessed I'm told.

Are there any Christians here who feal they did not receive the holy spirit the first time they asked.

Maybe this could be for 1 or two reasons they did not confess there sins with a sincere heart,
or they hadn't fasted first.

Your thoughts please.

And possibly I would like to hear from any available pastor who may visit this site or be a member here, for this as I'm so scared for my mum and dad,

we have an person in our house who possibly he has a bad spirit in him.

This is what i always recommend. Look up every passage in the Bible about baptism, and read it, along with the full context of the chapter the passage is found in. You will have the answers you seek.
You will hear and read all manor of nonsense, but the text of scripture is true.

 

[VARob]

Do really think that the complete requirements are always stated? They never are nor does it make sense when considering the context of the various letters and who they were written to and why. The various documents are not a and were nor considered to each be a textbook which is why you must put all scripture together on any subject to get the complete picture, i.e., there are 4 gospels. Why? To tell the story from different perspectives and to highlight slightly different things. We need all 4 gospels just as we need all the various NT letters, to gain a more concise picture. The various OT and NT scriptures cannot be viewed as complete in and of themselves, but when tied together is when you can get the true, complete understanding of the message in its entirety.

Thanks for your opinion. I do not agree with you that water baptism is required for salvation.

 

[VARob]

Sure there is. You are still a spring chicken. Moses was 120 years old and still going strong. Anyhow, if you are associated with a Bible-believing church (or if there is one near you) which practices baptism by immersion, speak to the pastor and tell him that you wish to be baptized as a believer (while you give your Christian testimony to all just before you are baptized). This might even cause many others to join you, and there could be a string of baptisms on that day. That could have a huge impact in that church.

When I got saved (from reading the Word of God), no human being told me to be baptized. I saw what was in Scripture and asked the pastor of the church we were attending to baptize me immediately. There was an elderly couple in that church who had never been baptized (and were scared of the water). But when they heard that I would be baptized, they decided "enough is enough" and came, and were baptized immediately after me. Then they went home rejoicing.

Thanks for your baptism testimony. I do not believe that water baptism is necessary, and am not planning on being water baptized.

 

[VARob]

Also, I read another of your responses to someone else stating you were sprinkled as an infant. You weren't baptized! You were sprinkled. Two distinctly different Greek words which are not interchangeable. Baptism comes from the Greek word baptizo which means to dip, plunge, immerse and it's not translated but transliterated. You asked, "is there any you hope for me"? Yes, but not in your present state. You MUST be baptized! Also, as an infant you you couldn't believe which is the first of the requirements. Hearing the word of God, then believing it, then acting upon your belief by faith. Hope this helps you. See below and seek out a local congregation who will help you.

https://www.church-of-christ.org/directories/churches.html

I agree that being baptized as an infant does nothing except perhaps make the parents feel better.
I do not agree that a person "MUST" be water baptized. Faith in Jesus Christ, confessing him as Lord, and believing in your heart that God raised him from the dead is what it takes to become saved. And nothing personal, but I would not seek out a CoC church.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I do not believe that water baptism is necessary...

So if the first commandment for a Christian is unnecessary, why bother?

 

[VARob]

So if the first commandment for a Christian is unnecessary, why bother?

Are you referring to Acts 2:38? I believe that revelation in the Bible is progressive, and that details about what occurred at Pentecost, the first time it became available for people to become born again of the Holy Spirit, were not fully known until they were revealed to Paul. The Pauline epistles contain the doctrine for the Christian church.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Are you referring to Acts 2:38?

How about Matthew 28:19 and Mark 16:16? And how about this? Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. (Acts 10:47,48) Notice. Peter commanded the Gentiles to be baptized because Christ commanded Him to make sure it was administered. Then go to Acts 16 and see what Paul did at midnight.

Calling Acts "progressive" in order to dodge baptism is laughable. The history of the Church shows that from the time of the apostles to this day baptism and the Lord's Supper have always been the two ordinances which have remained among Christians.

So now that you know the truth about Christian baptism, you have no excuse, and if you refuse to be baptized you are actually in rebellion.

 

[VARob]

How about Matthew 28:19 and Mark 16:16? And how about this? Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. (Acts 10:47,48) Notice. Peter commanded the Gentiles to be baptized because Christ commanded Him to make sure it was administered. Then go to Acts 16 and see what Paul did at midnight.

Calling Acts "progressive" in order to dodge baptism is laughable. The history of the Church shows that from the time of the apostles to this day baptism and the Lord's Supper have always been the two ordinances which have remained among Christians.

So now that you know the truth about Christian baptism, you have no excuse, and if you refuse to be baptized you are actually in rebellion.

I was not calling Acts progressive. I said the revelation about Christianity in the Bible is progressive. They did not know everything in the early chapters of Acts. When I use the word "progressive" I am not referring to it in the "liberal" sense. I'm about as conservative as they come. But revelation about the Christian church was primarily given to Paul.

Also, baptism is a work. We are not saved by works, but by faith in Jesus Christ. A Christian can certainly get baptized if they want to, and it may help some feel closer to Christ, but it does not make them any more saved than someone who doesn't.

Why are you always so stern and accusatory? Almost Pharisaical...

 

[Cameron143]

I was not calling Acts progressive. I said the revelation about Christianity in the Bible is progressive. They did not know everything in the early chapters of Acts. When I use the word "progressive" I am not referring to it in the "liberal" sense. I'm about as conservative as they come. But revelation about the Christian church was primarily given to Paul.

Also, baptism is a work. We are not saved by works, but by faith in Jesus Christ. A Christian can certainly get baptized if they want to, and it may help some feel closer to Christ, but it does not make them any more saved than someone who doesn't.

Why are you always so stern and accusatory? Almost Pharisaical...

He's right about the Lord's supper and baptism being the 2 ordinances implemented by Jesus. You are right that baptism is a work on our part but it is also an act of obedience. It will not in and of itself, enhance salvation, it is a way on our part of publicly professing our relationship with Christ. And like the Lord's supper, there is a spiritual communication of Jesus to us.

 

[VARob]

He's right about the Lord's supper and baptism being the 2 ordinances implemented by Jesus. You are right that baptism is a work on our part but it is also an act of obedience. It will not in and of itself, enhance salvation, it is a way on our part of publicly professing our relationship with Christ. And like the Lord's supper, there is a spiritual communication of Jesus to us.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Cameron143]

Thanks for your thoughts.

Just want the best for you.

 

[glf]

Precious friend, since water baptism is not for Today, under Grace, there are many
denominational traditions of 'why' they practice an OT command, thus causing a
lot of Confusion. And God is "not the author of Confusion" (1Co 14:33), Correct?

This summary may be helpful for What God Is Doing Today, Under Grace:

Three baptisms, Rightly Divided, Within God's Contexts:

(1) Prophecy/Covenants/Law for ISRAEL:

water baptism was man's operation, Commanded by God
to John the baptizer, and then by Christ to:

►►► The Twelve apostles who Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄

The TWO Main (of 12) baptismS =

God's Reason For:
A) water, For remission of sins/induction into Israeli "priesthood!":
(Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31; Luke 7:29-30; Acts_10:37)
(Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16; Acts_2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel_36:25)
+
This Is The Baptism That "Christ Performed" after ascending Into Heaven:

B) Baptism WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for
power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)
Prophecy/Covenants/Law

Q: Are these TWO "still Required" By God, for us, Today, Under Grace?
Bible Answer:

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

(2) Mystery/GRACE! =

our "apostle to the Gentiles" for The Body Of CHRIST:

►►► Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄

Today: Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,
Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians_4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
Romans_6:3-4; ►►► 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJB ◄◄◄)
----------------


Baptism
HEB 6:1,2 KJV "Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection: not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, of the doctrines of baptisms, and the laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgement."

1 Cor 1:13-16 KJV "Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
I think God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Least any should say that I baptized in my own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

1 Cor 15:29 "Else, what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead."

1 Cor 1:13-16 shows us that water baptism was a common practice for the early Church faithful. In fact, it appears that they even performed proxy water baptisms for those who were martyred before they had an opportunity as I'm sure they kept it hid because of their being persecuted. At the least, we can see the early Church practiced water baptism because Paul wasn't called to be an Apostle until after Jesus had been resurrected and ascended, so even though he tells us that he was not sent to baptize, he did do it. I, therefore, do not understand how this can be called an OT rite.
Then in Heb 6 Paul calls repentance from dead works, faith towards God, the doctrine of baptism(s), laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead and eternal judgement to be the principles of the doctrine of Christ. I agree that the true baptism was when we were by one Spirit baptized into one body and by its surpassing glory is what is referred to in the passage that tells us that there is one baptism. And if more than one baptism belongs to the principles of the doctrine of Christ, it would have to be water baptism. Are we raised in the newness of life to follow the Spirit under the OT?
There is no curse of death under the new covenant, except for a very few exceptions; So I would agree that water baptism is not required for salvation, but rather for obedience to the Spirit. It is a public declaration that one has died to self to live a new life in Christ.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Also, baptism is a work.

No. It is not a work of man. The work is of God.