Who Justifieth the Ungodly

Cameron143 · Mar 18, 2023

I would agree that it is simplistic in its presentation, but it is accurate. Perhaps you can share your understanding.

brightfame52 · Mar 18, 2023

sure there is ... let go of your erroneous dogma and believe Scripture.

nope ... 1 Cor 2:14 refers to the mystery, the hidden wisdom. I have explained this truth to you many, many times and you continue to suppress/restrain the truth in unrighteousness.

your erroneous dogma is more precious to you than the truth of Scripture.

1 Corinthians 2:

6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect [of full age, mature]: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom [the gospel was never hid], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The things spoken of in vss 6-14 which are spiritually discerned are enumerated in the verses:

vs 6 – the wisdom which was discussed among the mature believers ... the gospel was taught in the general congregation (vss 1-2).

vs 7 – the wisdom of God in a mystery ... this wisdom was kept secret since the world began (Rom 16:25); and in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men (Eph 3:5); and from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God (Eph 3:9); and which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest (Col 1:26). Again, the gospel was never hid ... the gospel is proclaimed throughout all of Scripture from Genesis to Revelaton.

vs 8 – if the devil and his minions had known the mystery, the hidden wisdom, they never would have crucified the Lord Jesus Christ.

vs 9 – the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).

vs 10 – the deep things of God go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).

vs 11 – the things of God which no man knoweth go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).

vs 12 – the things that are freely given to us of God go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).

vs 13 – things which the Holy Ghost teacheth go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).

vs 14 – the things of the Spirit of God and specifically the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).
.

Nothing has changed, 1 Cor 2:14 clearly shows that the Gospel is foolishness to the natural man and he cannot understand it.

brightfame52 · Mar 18, 2023

SandWhich said:

Why would you ask that. Do you understand the thread and OP ?

brightfame52 · Mar 18, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

Thats the elect, Gods will is for them exclusively to be saved, and they shall be saved according to His Will

SandWhich · Mar 18, 2023

brightfame52 said:

I asked this question is because I want to know the answer to my question from that person.

brightfame52 · Mar 18, 2023

SandWhich said:

Go start a thread on it please.

reneweddaybyday · Mar 18, 2023

brightfame52 said:

iow ... you are going to continue to conflate the gospel with the mystery, the hidden wisdom and in so doing you understand neither the gospel nor the mystery, the hidden wisdom.

brightfame52 said:

nope ... 1 Cor 2:14 clearly refers to the mystery, the hidden wisdom as well as other spiritual matters enumerated in vss 6-14 (notwithstanding your insistence that the gospel = the mystery, the hidden wisdom).

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

reneweddaybyday · Mar 18, 2023

brightfame52 said:

nope ... God needs you to read Scripture and believe what is written without inserting your erroneous dogma into what He, as the Author, has written.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who [God] will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

God says all men ... not "elect" as you claim.

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers (bold mine):

“In other words, through the sacrifice and the death of Christ all are rendered capable of salvation (salvabiles); that some are indisputably not saved, is not due to any outward circumscription or inefficacy of the divine will, but to man’s rejection of the special means of salvation which God has been pleased to appoint, and to which it is His divine will that man’s salvation should be limited. Redemption is universal, yet conditional—all may be saved, yet all will not be saved, because all will not conform to God’s appointed condition.”—Bishop Ellicott.

https://biblehub.com/commentaries/1_timothy/2-4.htm

Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die ...

God says the wicked ... not "elect" as you claim.

Matthew Poole's Commentary:

Why will ye die? death is your choice, not mine, so long as you go on in the way that is not good; whoso sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul, and love to sin is interpretatively a love and choosing of death. It is your culpable will, not my severe resolution, that you die.

https://biblehub.com/commentaries/ezekiel/33-11.htm

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

brightfame52 · Mar 18, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

In other words, nothing changes, the natural man has absolutely no spiritual ability to understand the Gospel 1 Cor 2:14

brightfame52 · Mar 18, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

nope ... God needs you to read Scripture and believe what is written without inserting your erroneous dogma into what He, as the Author, has written.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who [God] will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

God says all men ... not "elect" as you claim.

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers (bold mine):

“In other words, through the sacrifice and the death of Christ all are rendered capable of salvation (salvabiles); that some are indisputably not saved, is not due to any outward circumscription or inefficacy of the divine will, but to man’s rejection of the special means of salvation which God has been pleased to appoint, and to which it is His divine will that man’s salvation should be limited. Redemption is universal, yet conditional—all may be saved, yet all will not be saved, because all will not conform to God’s appointed condition.”—Bishop Ellicott.

https://biblehub.com/commentaries/1_timothy/2-4.htm

Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die ...

God says the wicked ... not "elect" as you claim.

Matthew Poole's Commentary:

Why will ye die? death is your choice, not mine, so long as you go on in the way that is not good; whoso sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul, and love to sin is interpretatively a love and choosing of death. It is your culpable will, not my severe resolution, that you die.

https://biblehub.com/commentaries/ezekiel/33-11.htm

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

All men in salvific affairs means the elect, all of them. Salvation in Christ Jesus with eternal Glory is specifically for them 2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Cameron143 · Mar 18, 2023

brightfame52 said:

No ability to understand? Or no compunction to desire? Or no ability to attain?
The gospel is pretty easy to understand.

brightfame52 · Mar 18, 2023

Cameron143 said:

Like I sald, no ablilty , nor desire, in fact naturally we are totally dead to God and Jesus Christ, and Spirituality.

Cameron143 · Mar 18, 2023

brightfame52 said:

Are there any preachers who pastor churches who aren't saved?

brightfame52 · Mar 18, 2023

Cameron143 said:

Im not talking about nothing like that, stick to the script

Cameron143 · Mar 18, 2023

brightfame52 said:

Ok. Scripture: Philippians 1:15-18...

Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife, and some also of good will:
The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely,....

Whether in pretense, or in truth, Christ is preached...

Sounds to me like the gospel itself is understood by both true believers and unbelievers alike.

brightfame52 · Mar 18, 2023

Cameron143 said:

It doesnt matter to me what it sounds like to you. 1 Cor 2:14 enlightens me to the fact that the natural man cannot spiritual discern the Gospel, the things of the Spirit of God

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Cameron143 · Mar 18, 2023

brightfame52 said:

Natural man does retain his faculties even though they have been corrupted. He will not accept the truth of the gospel apart from an action of God, but he can understand it.

brightfame52 · Mar 18, 2023

Cameron143 said:

No not spiritually understand it. Now those who receive it naturally are the Stony ground hearers but they have no spiritual root so it is superficial. Matt 13:20-21,23

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended

But he that have a good heart, meaning a new spiritual heart, he hears and understands the truth and bears fruit

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Cameron143 · Mar 18, 2023

brightfame52 said:

I understand your point of view. But anyone can understand the content of the gospel. They are without spiritual understanding so any action on their part without an action on God's part will not yield salvation, but the very fact that one answers an altar call confirms they understood the gospel message.

reneweddaybyday · Mar 18, 2023

brightfame52 said:

Your denial of Scripture does not change Scripture to your stated erroneous dogma.

1 Cor 2:14 relates to the mystery, the hidden wisdom.

You have been, and continue to be, blown about by a wind of doctrine:

Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
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