how did Satan manage to appear as a snake.

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Happy_hobnob

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Mar 11, 2023
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What makes you think that a "Serpent" in Eden was a "snake" before it was cursed??
Sunday school and, I was concerned that's if it was Satan disguise as a snake that would mean he would have the ability to somehow perform miracles all to put it another way control matter itself, matter being of every source whether it's the matter that you cannot see or whether it's the matter that we are made up of,
 

Happy_hobnob

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But there is an insertion of where Satan was controlling Matter itself, in Job 1
 

Beckie

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But there is an insertion of where Satan was controlling Matter itself, in Job 1
God allowed ....
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
 

Happy_hobnob

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God allowed ....
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
yes there is more insertions,
Ephesians 2:2
2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience


Corinthians 4:4 (
4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
 

maxwel

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Apr 18, 2013
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Does God know the future, or does He know what He will do in the future?

...a not-so-subtle difference.

Interesting question about omniscience.


1.) Scripture indicates that God knows all things, and knows all things future.

2.) The scope of God's omniscience is well attested in scripture, and well attested by biblical scholars and clergy throughout all of church history. There's simply clear scripture for this.

3.) However, there is a view called Open Theism which holds that God's omniscience is limited.
- This view is postulated ONLY as a method to preserve the doctrine of man's free will, and was ONLY contrived as a tool for debating this other topic.
- I think resorting to Open Theism to win an argument with a Calvinist indicates a poor understanding of omniscience, a poor understanding of free will, and a poor understanding of all the more rational arguments for libertarian free will.
(Whether you're a Calvinist, an Armenian, or something in between, we'd all agree we never want to downgrade GOD to win an argument.)
- Open Theism is considered heresy in orthodox theology.


* For my Calvinist friends out there... we can debate all you like, but I will never start tossing out God's attributes when I start losing an argument. It's far better to just lose an argument. Right? But that's where Open Theism comes from. It's a heretical tool devised to argue the free will debate.


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Happy_hobnob

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Mar 11, 2023
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Is it also possible
Satan appeared discuised as peter
Mathew 16;23
But He turned and said unto Peter, “Get thee behind Me, Satan! Thou art an offense unto Me; for thou savorest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.”

Is this the scribe seeing Peter but Jesus seeing Satan in duscuise
 

maxwel

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Apr 18, 2013
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It is completely acceptable to describe three dimensional things with two dimensions (eg. TV)
God can use simplifications as well.
I completely agree.

But we have to be very careful if resorting to any kind of "argument from absence" when doing theology.
That's why hermeneutics is considered both an art and a science.
: )

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Dec 21, 2020
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Interesting question about omniscience.

1.) Scripture indicates that God knows all things, and knows all things future.
References? I have provided some that demonstrate that He doesn't.

2.) The scope of God's omniscience is well attested in scripture, and well attested by biblical scholars and clergy throughout all of church history. There's simply clear scripture for this.
ok...

3.) However, there is a view called Open Theism which holds that God's omniscience is limited.
- This view is postulated ONLY as a method to preserve the doctrine of man's free will, and was ONLY contrived as a tool for debating this other topic.
- I think resorting to Open Theism to win an argument with a Calvinist indicates a poor understanding of omniscience, a poor understanding of free will, and a poor understanding of all the more rational arguments for libertarian free will.
(Whether you're a Calvinist, an Armenian, or something in between, we'd all agree we never want to downgrade GOD to win an argument.)
- Open Theism is considered heresy in orthodox theology.
While you're right that we never want to downgrade God, those are some pretty bold assertions, Maxwel. Can you back them up?

One man's theology is another man's heresy. I hold to open theism.

* For my Calvinist friends out there... we can debate all you like, but I will never start tossing out God's attributes when I start losing an argument. It's far better to just lose an argument. Right? But that's where Open Theism comes from. It's a heretical tool devised to argue the free will debate..
You're going to have to prove that, if you can.
 

maxwel

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Apr 18, 2013
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References? I have provided some that demonstrate that He doesn't.


ok...


While you're right that we never want to downgrade God, those are some pretty bold assertions, Maxwel. Can you back them up?

One man's theology is another man's heresy. I hold to open theism.


You're going to have to prove that, if you can.

An Open Theism debate is way off topic for this thread.

Please start another thread, so everyone can see it.

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Dec 21, 2020
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An Open Theism debate is way off topic for this thread.

Please start another thread, so everyone can see it.

.
Stay tuned (not tonight, though). ..but it will probably devolve into another Calvinist vs Arminian contest.
 

Mem

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Sep 23, 2014
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In the Hebrew Alephbet, there are a number of "crowned" letters of which zayin is among. Zayin is written by a pictograph of a sword, and it also represents time. This brings to mind my mind the idea that God is a master of time. And considering that He is ever present, the "I AM," or being itself. He is able to 'cut' time with the precision of chef Morimoto's santoku, for lack of a better analogy. So when God say, "Now, I know," it is because He doesn't miss even a beat of time. And likewise, God would also know what He would do in any given scenario that might present itself and have to ability to 'react' on the head of a pin so, might this factor into His omniscience? That is, He know what will happen because He knows what He will not allow to happen?
 

Happy_hobnob

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But don't hold me to account for this my friend in the UK sent me this screen shot, but it does question the belief expressed by some that serpant is only expressed as metaphorical.
 

Sipsey

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Sep 27, 2018
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But don't hold me to account for this my friend in the UK sent me this screen shot, but it does question the belief expressed by some that serpant is only expressed as metaphorical.
It seems that we humans lack the right vocabulary at times, to adequately describe a scene or action in real terms. Poetry and other writing techniques rely heavily on figurative language.

Take into count that about 1/3 of the OT consists of Hebrew poetry and it would seem that sometimes we have to better understand the context by reading every other instance a particular thought is expressed. This can require significant blocks of time, and even then much of what we learn lacks the finality that we desire.
 

Happy_hobnob

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It seems that we humans lack the right vocabulary at times, to adequately describe a scene or action in real terms. Poetry and other writing techniques rely heavily on figurative language.

Take into count that about 1/3 of the OT consists of Hebrew poetry and it would seem that sometimes we have to better understand the context by reading every other instance a particular thought is expressed. This can require significant blocks of time, and even then much of what we learn lacks the finality that we desire.
Yes most definitely, we do,
 

Happy_hobnob

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Does He?

Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

Gen 22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

Jer 19:5 They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:

Exo 4:14 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Moses, and he said, Is not Aaron the Levite thy brother? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold, he cometh forth to meet thee: and when he seeth thee, he will be glad in his heart.

If God knows everything ahead of time, how would it be possible for someone to cause His anger to be kindled? It would at best be a staged anger. "I knew ahead of time this was going to happen, and now I need to be angry."

I do not think everything in life is all prearranged or foreknown by God. I think we can please God, or upset Him, and I think God's responses to what we do are genuine. I'm familiar with the "God lives outside of time, He can see from eternity past to eternity future" argument. I'm not convinced it's true. Prophecies come to pass because God brings them to pass, not because He "saw" them happening in the future.

Also, prayer can actually change the future. In Isa 38, God told Isaiah to tell Hezekiah that he was about to die. It was "Thus saith the LORD." Hezekiah prayed, and God gave him 15 more years. The word of the LORD to Hezekiah changed when Hez prayed. If God knew ahead of time that Hez would pray and that God would give him 15 more years, why would God have told him that he was about to die?

..just some thoughts.
Just some thoughts, but when Gods steps into our time zone in person, he may be out of his comfort zone and time zone, and not be to happy he has once again had to leave heavens time zone. And this is why we see his wrath.
 

Happy_hobnob

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A man dies and arrives at Heaven
Long
As he's standing at the Pearly Gates, he notices a huge wall of clocks behind St Peter.
He asked, "What are all those clocks?"
St Peter replied, "Those are lie clocks, every time someone tells a lie, the hands on their clock move."
"Oh! Whose clock is that?" He says pointing.
"That's Mother Theresa's clock, it's hands have never moved."
"Wow! And whose clock is that?"
"That's Abraham Lincoln's clock, it's hands have only moved twice."
The man asks, "Where is Boris Johnson's clock?"
St Peter replies, "We're using it as a ceiling fan"
 

Beckie

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
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A man dies and arrives at Heaven
Long
As he's standing at the Pearly Gates, he notices a huge wall of clocks behind St Peter.
He asked, "What are all those clocks?"
St Peter replied, "Those are lie clocks, every time someone tells a lie, the hands on their clock move."
"Oh! Whose clock is that?" He says pointing.
"That's Mother Theresa's clock, it's hands have never moved."
"Wow! And whose clock is that?"
"That's Abraham Lincoln's clock, it's hands have only moved twice."
The man asks, "Where is____________ clock?"
St Peter replies, "We're using it as a ceiling fan"
To be fair just fill in the blank :)
 

HopeinHim98

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Mar 16, 2023
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It seems that we humans lack the right vocabulary at times, to adequately describe a scene or action in real terms. Poetry and other writing techniques rely heavily on figurative language.

Take into count that about 1/3 of the OT consists of Hebrew poetry and it would seem that sometimes we have to better understand the context by reading every other instance a particular thought is expressed. This can require significant blocks of time, and even then much of what we learn lacks the finality that we desire.
It is true that there is much figurative language used in the bible, but that is primarily in the poetry and prophecy books. Genesis is a history account. As far as I know the history books in the bible don't use much figurative language.