sister would be correct lol, I have come from a place of to many people, leading people into division deliberately causing trouble to score points, . One bad memory after the next, I heard the word that said you can not keep putting people's mistakes right, so I can't live like that, if we can't agree on something then we should move on, and find somebody who we can agree with.
The Impeccability of Our Lord Jesus Christ
- Thread starter IsaiahA
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I like to be spoken to gently quietly and like to being reminded of the gentle side of God our lord Jesus I also like to see that nature in others which is how you came across to me, I don't mind being reminded of milk or being given a reminder of a lesson from Jesus which is what you spoke of, to show a point of view. We seem to be miss understanding each other,
You do sound like a priest at times tho and your name kinda sounds like a priests name, but if you said to a pastor thanks for the lesson, he would not be offended, but I think the only offence here is when we talk to much we slip up lol.
It’s all good brother I think sometimes our perception of how someone else is typing , might be off honestly we see an aweful lot of “ tone” when there isn’t any
But surely I’m not offended by anything you have said in any way is my point and at no point was I intending to offend you or anyone else
i like to discuss the Bible and part of that is hearing peoples ideas that are different from mine it would take a lot to offend me in a discussion about the Bible online lol
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● Heb 5:8 . . So even though Jesus was God's son, he learned obedience
from the things he suffered.
When above as a deity, it was a piece of cake for the Word to please God, but
when down here on Earth as a mortal, handicapped with human characteristics,
the Word discovered that pleasing God is a bit of a challenge.
That worked to mankind's advantage because it gave us a sympathetic
mediator in Heaven due to himself having been around the block a time or
two, so to speak.
● Heb 5:2 . . He is able to deal gently with those who are ignorant and are
going astray, since he himself is subject to weakness
● Heb 5:9 . . In this way, God qualified him as a perfect high priest
That's interesting. The Word was a perfect deity in Heaven, but until he
came and underwent the human experience common to us all, he was unfit
to be a high priest because priests are supposed to be someone able to
relate to the folks they serve.
_
● Heb 5:8 . . So even though Jesus was God's son, he learned obedience
from the things he suffered.
When above as a deity, it was a piece of cake for the Word to please God, but
when down here on Earth as a mortal, handicapped with human characteristics,
the Word discovered that pleasing God is a bit of a challenge.
That worked to mankind's advantage because it gave us a sympathetic
mediator in Heaven due to himself having been around the block a time or
two, so to speak.
● Heb 5:2 . . He is able to deal gently with those who are ignorant and are
going astray, since he himself is subject to weakness
● Heb 5:9 . . In this way, God qualified him as a perfect high priest
That's interesting. The Word was a perfect deity in Heaven, but until he
came and underwent the human experience common to us all, he was unfit
to be a high priest because priests are supposed to be someone able to
relate to the folks they serve.
_
There is nothing wrong with learning obedience, he was a child once, but should we question his impeccability for that, ?
maybe if your new to the faith you might, or if your doubtful of the spirit world, you could , or if you have a hard time believing in God you would, or if temptation from realms of disassociated spirits where making you Question The lords character or way of doing stuff on the basis of impeccability and perfection you could,
But if you start to Question the Lords faith and Equate temptation to testing, or duties performed of that of a living God should not have to do, to impeccability, or thinking God should know better, are you not in danger of doubting the faith of which you have been Justified by. And are you then not going into wilderness where temptation may overcome you, to believe a lie and worship the wrong belief. As where not Insertions in Bible wrote on understanding,
Just pause for thought here but is it inconceivable to think our enemy could have a thousand different ways to tempt you with the same temptation he layed on the hands of Jesus which was follow Satan and his belief, and one of those ways is a subject called the impeccability of Jesus,
Our faith calls us not to put our lord to the test, and here we are doing just that by questions of his impeccability.
maybe if your new to the faith you might, or if your doubtful of the spirit world, you could , or if you have a hard time believing in God you would, or if temptation from realms of disassociated spirits where making you Question The lords character or way of doing stuff on the basis of impeccability and perfection you could,
But if you start to Question the Lords faith and Equate temptation to testing, or duties performed of that of a living God should not have to do, to impeccability, or thinking God should know better, are you not in danger of doubting the faith of which you have been Justified by. And are you then not going into wilderness where temptation may overcome you, to believe a lie and worship the wrong belief. As where not Insertions in Bible wrote on understanding,
Just pause for thought here but is it inconceivable to think our enemy could have a thousand different ways to tempt you with the same temptation he layed on the hands of Jesus which was follow Satan and his belief, and one of those ways is a subject called the impeccability of Jesus,
Our faith calls us not to put our lord to the test, and here we are doing just that by questions of his impeccability.
Ok stop shouting at me with caps then please, and stop calling be brother, I am a lady, your ok to chat with me, It is not easy to explain theses feelings about your lord and saviour sometimes in a subject like this, especial when the lord your God is being put to the the test, but I guess it goes deep for some, but may I ask one thing, or suggest a point of view, is temptation of your own desire also impure thoughts, are we going to believe Jesus had impure thoughts, to.
hi Dino have you took into account the nature of Satan, your basing your thought here on understanding that there was an arrangement made, but have you considered there was no arrangement made ?
Was an arrangement made in advance, does The holy spirit make arrangements with Satan. I think that would be Satan's fantasy, that he could
Can we even conceive such an idea, ? I believe this mistake is easy when we understand something on the basis he was being tested via an arrangement, in advance unbeknown to Jesus,
The holy spirit led Jesus 24/7, so I was told to put my self in that exact moment of time, where it say Jesus was led by the holy spirit to be tempted, but don't forget to think, Jesus may have been talking to the holy spirit at that exact moment, because when you do, you see a departure and something else,
I had it explained that the holy spirit knew Satan would tempt Jesus, because that is Satan's nature all day long, but when you read it how it's written you can assume he was tested, and quite easily not understand a very important note, which is The holy spirit knew Jesus would 1 identify Satan, 2 not be overcome, 3 not fall for temptation, 4 and not recognise being led of the holy at all time. All you see is the flesh and think of the carnal mind.
My pastor told me I should understand that scripture on the Basis that Jesus was took there to show Satan for who he was, and never ever to believe we could be led into temptation from the holy spirit, My pastor told me that God would have known in advance befor his incarnation of being born in advance he would be incapable of sin, not capable, so there is no sham to be considered if you see it this way.
Edit when you don't see that Jesus was talking to holy spirit at the exact moment, where the scripture says Jesus was led by the holy spirit to be tempted, all you see is a departure, and a test. And forgot Jesus was led of the holy spirit in all things.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Jesus was tempted just like people are tempted but He did not sin.
Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit so He was always led by the Spirit nothing wavering, so He could not sin.
A Spirit led person will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh for they have crucified the affections and lusts.
A person led by the Spirit can abstain from sin for they are not showing the ways of the flesh but they will still be tempted.
Jesus was tempted just like people are tempted but He did not sin.
Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit so He was always led by the Spirit nothing wavering, so He could not sin.
A Spirit led person will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh for they have crucified the affections and lusts.
A person led by the Spirit can abstain from sin for they are not showing the ways of the flesh but they will still be tempted.
It doesn't say desire to sin, though... and "evil desires" is a wrong translation in some versions.
Eve's desire to be wise wasn't an evil desire. The most clever temptations are the ones that exploit your good intentions and unfulfilled desires that are good.
The things Jesus was tempted/tested with were good things, and very likely things that he wanted. He probably did want to eat, considering he was hungry- and he probably did want the kingdoms of the earth, considering he was entitled to them. He just had a greater desire to do the will of the father- and like in the gethsemane garden he says "not my will, but yours", if there was any way he could accomplish his mission without being violently scourged and crucified, he probably would have opted for that instead.
Adam and Eve didn't have a sin nature in the Garden either, but the fall still happened. You don't need a sin nature, you just need free-choice and the opportunity to make the wrong choice (which is what temptation essentially is). Jesus had ample opportunities to make wrong choices- and never did. Why is that? Because he was incapable of making a wrong choice? Why was he "incapable"? Because it was contradictory to his divine character? or because he was literally incapable, lacking the free-choice capacity?
Are you serious? Comparing the man of the earth with the Lord from Heaven? This is how Christians go off the rails.
Always keep in mind that there was never a moment when Jesus of Nazareth was not fully God and fully sinless Man at one and the same time. And that is the key to the impeccability of Christ.
So did God create Adam and Eve with a sin nature? Is that what you're saying? I don't think that's what you're saying.
Was it his impeccable character, or did he lack free-choice? You can see where I'm going with this, right?
What I am saying is that first first Adam was "of the earth -- earthy". But the last Adam was "the Lord from Heaven". So to put it another way, it is God who became Man, and God cannot be tempted, even in sinless human form.
Adam and Eve were created innocent. They were warned of the consequences of disobedience. They had absolutely no reason to disobey God. But they chose to sin instead of obeying Him. And as a result mankind paid the price. And that is why God sent His only begotten Son into the world. And Jesus is God as well as Man. So any attempt to tempt God was laughable. But Satan was foolish enough to think he could get away with it.
That's fair enough. I would say, they had a perfect, but "fallible" human-nature, with free-choice.
He was the Lord from heaven, yes- he was also the 'son of man', and his human nature was literally descended from both heaven and fallible humans.
Are you sure, because the bible also says that no one has seen God: but we know it's talking about the spirit of God, and not Jesus... because people saw Jesus, right? He wasn't invisible.
What I am concerned about here, is this line of thought of his "impeccability" leading to Calvinism, if you haven't picked up on that.
That is why I think he has a infallible/impeccable character; but at the same time, a perfect, but fallible human nature. Otherwise, we better study up on our TULIP mnemonic...
Idk if my phrasing is 100% correct, but I feel like the calvinism thing makes it important enough to try and hash out.
If you want to believe in a Jesus Christ who could be tempted then knock yourself out. I for one, will not lower the nature and character of my Savior.
As far as Hebrews 4:15 is concerned - it does not say He was tempted - that is an English translation. It says:
- οὐ γὰρ ἔχομεν ἀρχιερέα μὴ δυνάμενον συμπαθῆσαι ταῖς ἀσθενείαις ἡμῶν, πεπειρασμένον δὲ κατὰ πάντα καθ᾿ ὁμοιότητα χωρὶς ἁμαρτίας.
- For we have not a high priest not being able to suffer with the weaknesses of us, but having been tested in all respects according to [our] likeness apart from sin.
Translators, must determine the proper use of the Greek word: πεπειρασμένον in order to give it the correct English word to express it's meaning. Even in the Strong's Concordance - tempted is the last thing mentioned: From G3984; to test (objectively), that is, endeavor, scrutinize, entice, discipline: - assay, examine, go about, prove, try, tempt (-er).
The Greek word translated "weaknesses" in the English, has nothing to do with sin. This word means weaknesses in the realm of physical infirmities. As well as, the need for spiritual strengthening. Having a physical weakness is not a sin.
Surely, you do not believe that Jesus, the eternal Son of the living God, the Creator of all things, the Sustainer of all things and the one who was born, in the flesh, as that Holy Thing - Would entertain in His mind, at any time, things such as Idolatry, Murder, Theft, Adultery, Homosexuality, Lies, Drugs or Drunkenness?
God forbid. May it never be!
Because, unlike us, He did not possess a temptable nature and if one does not possess a temptable nature, then that one cannot be tempted.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
Jesus is God manifest in the flesh so He could be tempted according to His humanity.
Jesus was conceived by the Spirit, so He was always led by the Spirit, so He could not sin, but He was tempted according to the flesh.
Jesus had to be fully human to qualify as our Savior.
Jesus said the Father is greater than me so that means that God is greater than the flesh.
A man called Jesus good master and He said why call me good for there is only one that is and that is God.
Which Jesus as a man was giving glory to God that He is doing good because God is causing Him to do good.
Jesus prayed in the garden if the cup given to Him could pass, and if not then the Father's will be done, and that is the flesh.
Jesus was in the flesh so He was tempted.
Jesus was in the flesh like all humans and the saints shall receive a glorified body like Christ's glorified body.
Jesus was tempted by Satan after the 40-day fast in the desert (Matthew 4:1-11). He won against every temptation of the devil's "rewards" and the devil's twisting of scripture by resisting/rejecting those temptations and countering the devil with proper use of scripture.
So the Lord Jesus remained sinless.
Being tempted isn't sinning in itself, but giving into it is.
He had to go through it to relate to us as humans and also to show us how to overcome temptations.
First - You need to update your understanding of temptation and sin. Scripture says that sin starts in the mind and then lays hold of our actions. When we lust after something (Meaning to desire it), sin is at work. Lust is not purely sexual. It can be any thing that we may desire, if that desire is driven by ones dissatisfaction with what God has given. Lust is a form of covetousness.
James 1:14 but each man is tempted, when he is drawn away by his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:15 Then the lust, when it hath conceived, bears sin: and the sin, when it is full grown, brings forth death.
Jesus Christ was always satisfied with what the Father had given.
Second - Jesus Christ did not have to have a temptable human nature, in order to relate to us. Jesus knew what sin was and how it functioned. When Scripture calls Him that Holy Thing, it is talking about His human nature - not His Divine Nature. This brings us to the fact that Jesus was not just a man. He was both God and man. Fully God and fully man. However, this second Adam was kept from the Adamic curse, by the Holy Spirit, who sanctified Mary's womb. This means that her womb was "set-apart" by the power of God, during the pregnancy.
Additionally, Jesus, as the God-man, could not coexist if both His Divine nature and Human nature were not exactly the same. Both were perfectly Holy. You can't tempt His human nature and have it not effect His Divine Nature.
James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempteth no man:
Third - You say that being tempted is not sinning. One cannot be tempted if that one does not consider the temptation. However, the moment the temptation is entertained in the mind, that one has sinned. This clearly taught in the Scriptures:
Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 but I say unto you, that every one that looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Albert Barnes had this to say, on Matthew 5:28
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery - Our Saviour in these verses explains the seventh commandment. It is probable that the Pharisees had explained this commandment, as they had the sixth, as extending only to the external act; and that they regarded evil thoughts and a wanton imagination as of little consequence, or as not forbidden by the law. Our Saviour assures them that the commandment did not regard the external act merely, but the secrets of the heart, and the movements of the eye. He declares that they who indulge a wanton desire, that they who look on a woman to increase their lust, have already, in the sight of God, violated the commandment, and committed adultery in the heart. Such was the guilt of David, whose deep and awful crime fully shows the danger of indulging in evil desires, and in the rovings of a wanton eye. See 2 Sam. 11; Ps. 51. See also 2Pe_2:14. So exceeding strict and broad is the law of God! And so heinous in his sight axe thoughts and feelings which may be forever concealed from the world!
Jesus was like us in every way according to Scripture, yet without sin.
According to you, He was not like us at all .
I'll stick with what the Bible says.