Salvation is for the Whole World

[ThereRoseaLamb]

The entirety of scripture is God’s commands, man’s INABILITY and need for a savior. But leave it to Arminians to miss the point and get it backwards, “why does the Word say "Believe on me, receive me, harken, come on to me" etc, etc. Seems rather dumb when we are not able to do any of it.” 👈This is scary 😬

No what is "scary" is certain Calvinists who add to Scripture to make a man made doctrine correct. At another point they will ignore Scripture out of hand to make Calvin right. It's a pity that one man has led so many astray.

God gives hundreds of commands throughout the Bible that mankind is unable to complete. But leave it to the Arminians to claim ability to do the one that grants eternal life. 🤦‍♂️
How convenient for you.

Have faith?!!! Well my mixed up brother, if it was good enough for Abraham it's good enough for me.

Can you love as commanded, as Christ? No.
Can you selflessly give as commanded? No.
Can you be sinless? No.
Can you fear God as you should? No.
Can you believe as commanded? Yup, says the Arminian, I can do that one all on my own. I’m glory bound, yippeee.

Said no one here, so maybe you can start by putting on your listening ears.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

You are fortunate that God chose you, before the foundations of the world. Do you evangelize the lost, or is it possible or necessary, according to your understanding?

No! Apparently there are no evangelists nor missionaries in the Calvinist churches. In fact, I don't know why they bother having church at all.

 

[Magenta]

The entirety of scripture is God’s commands, man’s INABILITY and need for a savior. But leave it to
Arminians to miss the point and get it backwards, “why does the Word say "Believe on me, receive me,
harken, come on to me" etc, etc. Seems rather dumb when we are not able to do any of it.” 👈This is scary 😬

Do you deliberately misrepresent the Arminian position? I think you do. And repeatedly.

F of FACTS (as per Arminian beliefs): freed to believe by God's grace .

Desiring the salvation of all and having provided atonement for all people, God continues
to take the initiative for the purpose of bringing all people to salvation by calling all people
everywhere to repent and believe the gospel (Acts 17:30; cf. Matt 28:18-20), and by enabling
those who hear the gospel to respond to it positively in faith. Unaided by grace, man cannot
even choose to please God or to believe the promise of salvation held out in the gospel. source

In fact, though you obviously deny it, Arminianism also teaches total depravity.

Total Depravity (the T in FACTS)

So you unwittingly mock your own beliefs. How dumb is that???

Just trying to encourage research.

Looks like you need to do some research to get your mind straightened out.

 

[NOV25]

Do you deliberately misrepresent the Arminian position? I think you do. And repeatedly.

F of FACTS (as per Arminian beliefs): freed to believe by God's grace .

Desiring the salvation of all and having provided atonement for all people, God continues
to take the initiative for the purpose of bringing all people to salvation by calling all people
everywhere to repent and believe the gospel (Acts 17:30; cf. Matt 28:18-20), and by enabling
those who hear the gospel to respond to it positively in faith. Unaided by grace, man cannot
even choose to please God or to believe the promise of salvation held out in the gospel. source

Prevenient grace is a phrase used to describe the grace given by God that precedes the act of a sinner exercising saving faith in Jesus Christ. The term prevenient comes from a Latin word that meant ”to come before, to anticipate.” By definition, every theological system that affirms the necessity of God’s grace prior to a sinner’s conversion teaches a type of prevenient grace. The Reformed doctrine of irresistible grace is a type of prevenient grace, as is common grace.

However, when the phrase “prevenient grace” is used in theological discussions, it is used in a specific way. In the context of the on-going Calvinism vs. Arminianism debate, prevenient grace is referred to in order to object to the Calvinist doctrine of irresistible grace. This is the reason why, in both modern and historic times, it has also been called “resistible grace” or “pre-regenerating grace.” Since denying the necessity of God’s grace prior to a sinner’s conversion is clearly against biblical teaching, the non-Calvinist theological systems have to affirm a doctrine of grace that precedes a person’s exercising of saving faith. Since non-Calvinists do not believe the saving grace of God always results in the sinner coming to Christ, Christians down through the ages have referred to a type of grace they call prevenient. Simply put, prevenient grace is the grace of God given to individuals that releases them from their bondage to sin and enables them to come to Christ in faith but does not guarantee that the sinner will actually do so. Thus, the efficacy of the enabling grace of God is determined not by God but by man.

 

[Cameron143]

No! Apparently there are no evangelists nor missionaries in the Calvinist churches. In fact, I don't know why they bother having church at all.

Church itself is about worship so this wouldn't be excluded. And it's not inconsistent to evangelize or send missionaries. Wheat and tares look alike so no one knows which is which. Plus it is commanded by Jesus.

 

[Magenta]

Prevenient grace is a phrase used to describe the grace given by God that precedes the act of a sinner exercising saving faith in Jesus Christ. The term prevenient comes from a Latin word that meant ”to come before, to anticipate.” By definition, every theological system that affirms the necessity of God’s grace prior to a sinner’s conversion teaches a type of prevenient grace. The Reformed doctrine of irresistible grace is a type of prevenient grace, as is common grace.

However, when the phrase “prevenient grace” is used in theological discussions, it is used in a specific way. In the context of the on-going Calvinism vs. Arminianism debate, prevenient grace is referred to in order to object to the Calvinist doctrine of irresistible grace. This is the reason why, in both modern and historic times, it has also been called “resistible grace” or “pre-regenerating grace.” Since denying the necessity of God’s grace prior to a sinner’s conversion is clearly against biblical teaching, the non-Calvinist theological systems have to affirm a doctrine of grace that precedes a person’s exercising of saving faith. Since non-Calvinists do not believe the saving grace of God always results in the sinner coming to Christ, Christians down through the ages have referred to a type of grace they call prevenient. Simply put, prevenient grace is the grace of God given to individuals that releases them from their bondage to sin and enables them to come to Christ in faith but does not guarantee that the sinner will actually do so. Thus, the efficacy of the enabling grace of God is determined not by God but by man.

Where did you copy that from? Gotquestions? Plagiarism is against the site rules, you know.

 

[NOV25]

In fact, though you obviously deny it, Arminianism also teaches total depravity.

Total Depravity (the T in FACTS)

So you unwittingly mock your own beliefs. How dumb is that???


Looks like you need to do some research to get your mind straightened out.

Arminians have consistently redefined their stance since the 17th century, trying to reword the FACTS. Do your research mam

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I will never agree with those who say, if you receive a gift, it is then no longer a gift because you accepted it.

And that if you receive/accept/stop fighting against God's grace, you nullify His grace.

In fact, such a position is pure nonsense.

And non-Biblical.

God draws us with loving kindness and He WANTS us to respond.

The person depicted in 1 Cor 2:14 is not a spiritual being until God quickens him to the new spiritual life, and cannot discern the things of the Spirit. Therefore he will not, and even, cannot accept a spiritual gift.

John 6:44 - No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent me draw him. Strong's concordance translates draw as drag.

 

[Magenta]

Arminians have consistently redefined their stance since the 17th century, trying to reword the FACTS. Do your research mam

Objecting to people refining their views over time as their understanding grows seems a dumb position to take.

 

[rogerg]

One more question. Did Adam and Eve have any choice while in the garden. It seems God gave them a choice. I could be wrong, but it looks like satan had a choice as an angel while in Heaven. If not, then it appears God didn’t allow them to Believe. I wonder why?

I don't follow your point - your question doesn't make sense to me. Are you equating Adam and Eve before the fall with man after the fall?

 

[fredoheaven]

In this dogma, faith has to be a gift so that the system stays in tact, that is why they argue so strongly, it is not about scripture it is about preserving the system.

So the conversation will always go round and round and the irony is it may take a work of the God, a gift of revelation, to remove the self-inflicted blinders.

Yep very true.

 

[Sipsey]

I don't follow your point - your question doesn't make sense to me. Are you equating Adam and Eve before the fall with man after the fall?

Sorry, did’nt mean to confuse you. Let me take another approach. The Bible seems to indicate that Angels and Adam were given choices, and both failed. You indicate man has no choice and I was wondering why God changed things.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Plus it is commanded by Jesus.

He did, but He did it for a reason.

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

[VARob]

I'm simply making a statement of cause and effect. Jesus death makes eternal life possible.

Agreed.

Being born from above makes it effectual to the individual.

Agreed. Where we might disagree is how/when a person gets born from above.

 

[VARob]

When we are born again, we are but babes in Christ until we mature enough to come unto a knowledge of the gospel, and when we do, we are sealed ( given an earnest [pledge] of our inheritance) with that Spirit of promise.

A person is not born again UNTIL he is sealed with the Holy Spirit.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Sorry, did’nt mean to confuse you. Let me take another approach. The Bible seems to indicate that Angels and Adam were given choices, and both failed. You indicate man has no choice and I was wondering why God changed things.

Man indeed has a choice, and I don't understand why they cannot see that.

Acts -
27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

 

[VARob]

Yes, we know that there are many versions of the bible that corrupt the scriptures.

Are you KJVOnly, too?

There are different ways to translate the Greek, and frequently the translators translate according to their theology.

 

[fredoheaven]

No, unquestionably wrong! if salvation is the gift then everything that went into bringing that gift to fruition must also be a gift including faith. The faith that brought salvation was Christ's faith(fulness) to the Father, not ours. Our faith was a gift to us and was dispensed to those born again through the fruit of the Spirit but because of Christ's faith.
Anything that someone must do to contribute to it, if it is their required contribution, makes it both a work and a law, and no one can be saved by attempting to satisfy either of those.
You are assessing the receiving of the gift in human terms, not God's terms. A spiritually dead person is incapable of themselves to receive any spiritual gift. As we are clearly informed in Jhn 6:29, true belief is solely a work of God and not of ourselves thereby making it both a work and God's work alone. I don't see how it can possibly be made any clearer than was made in that verse.

[Rev 2:13 KJV] 13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, [even] where Satan's seat [is]: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas [was] my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

[Jhn 6:29 KJV] 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

This is good only for opinion. Citing Revelation 2;13 as a proof text of "Christ's faith" is not according to the context as Christ referred to it as "doctrine for Christ says of the "doctrine of Balaam and the doctrine of Nicolaitans. Christ is speaking of the "faith once delivered" to the saint that needed to be kept.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

 

[Cameron143]

He did, but He did it for a reason.

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

So why wouldn't a Calvinist obey Jesus?

 

[Cameron143]

Agreed.


Agreed. Where we might disagree is how/when a person gets born from above.

I'm not especially looking for areas of disagreement. I think most people are way closer than they realize.