Salvation is for the Whole World

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Yes, they were oblivious to the truth.

[Heb 4:2 KJV] 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].
If they truly were oblivious to their plight, they would not have kept returning to God.

 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,137
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Not possible. Someone spiritually dead is obvious to their condition.
God intended that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though
He is not far from each one of us. ‘For in Him we live and move and have our being.’


God made us to find our life in Christ. Knowing something is missing
puts man in a position of being compelled to seek the missing answer.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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If they truly were oblivious to their plight, they would not have kept returning to God.
That they didn't return to God was the problem. The gospel was preached to them but fell on deaf ears. Coming to God
in a way God doesn't want, doesn't count. They didn't get points for effort.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,137
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Was that a reme?

That they didn't return to God was the problem. The gospel was preached to them but fell on deaf ears.
Coming to God in a way God doesn't want, doesn't count. They didn't get points for effort.
When I read the OT, I see the Israelites repeatedly returning to God and God repeatedly forgiving them.

It was a video (song) .;). What is a reme? .:unsure:
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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God intended that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though
He is not far from each one of us. ‘For in Him we live and move and have our being.’


God made us to find our life in Christ. Knowing something is missing
puts man in a position of being compelled to seek the missing answer.
Can't happen if dead in sin, we are oblivious to that which brings life.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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When I read the OT, I see the Israelites repeatedly returning to God and God repeatedly forgiving them.

It was a video (song) .;). What is a reme? .:unsure:
Yeah, please ignore that part of my reply. I just washed my hands and can't do anything with them.

And they as a nation, nor most individually, never became saved. Why? Because they placed their own works before God as their self-justification.

[Amo 5:22, 25 KJV]
22 Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept [them]: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts. ...
25 Have ye offered unto me sacrifices and offerings in the wilderness forty years, O house of Israel?
[Mal 3:8 KJV]
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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That's not what Romans 1 says. Plus:


Psalm 19:1
:)
They were dead spiritually and blinded by Satan and therefore they could not comprehend things spiritual

[2Co 4:4 KJV] 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,137
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They were dead spiritually and blinded by Satan and therefore they could not comprehend things spiritual

[2Co 4:4 KJV] 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
They believed God existed, yet they were adulterous. They knew their plight because they kept
getting into predicaments they could not get out of without God, but continued to rebel anyway.

Anywho must run for now. Toodles
. :)
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
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The world was already condemned that is why Jesus was sacrificed.
That is correct. (y)
If Calvinism were true, then we would all be predestined to the Lake of Fire. But He loved and died for the whole world, not just part of it. Therefore whosoever will may come.

Isaiah 55:1
“Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.”
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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I know you really, really, really like to post this verse. :);)

Can we agree that this verse needs to be understood first within the context of the audience, to whom it was written, that is the church at Corinth?
Wrong! The " but he that is spiritual" of 2:15 is the antithesis of the natural man of 2:14, and therefore, cannot be solely applicable to the church at Corinth, but instead is directed to everyone, especially to those born-again, because natural man as opposed to those spiritual, transcends any particular church.

[1Co 2:14-15 KJV]
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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I never made this assertion.

I have a request put me ignore since I irritate you so much.
You don't irritate me - I was responding to what you posted about verse 1Co 2:14 - that it was only intended for the church
at Corinth.

This is what you said:
'Can we agree that this verse needs to be understood first within the context of the audience, to whom it was written, that is the church at Corinth? "

Did I misunderstand you about that?

However, if you'd like me to put you on ignore, I will.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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What do you mean and? You asked for a verse that shows faith is a gift, didn't you? That's what I gave you
Here:

" I said I acknowledge faith as a gift."

another one:

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
The Bible in the above passage says it's a fruit, not a gift.
 

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
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No, it is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, which law, Christ alone brought forth and satisfied. Notice it was that law itself that made Paul free, not by anything that Paul did.
Romans 3:27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith.


Works - Because of what law? The law that requires works, no? VS Faith- because of the law that requires faith


Romans 4- What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

Works - If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about VS

Faith - What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”


Romans 4 -13 It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14 For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15 because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.


Works- It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world

Faith- but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 16 the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace


Gal 2: 16- know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in[a] Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.


Faith - So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in[a] Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.


Works-
know that a person is not justified by the works of the law -




4 Have you experienced[b] so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

Faith - Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”


Works-
does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?


Faith is NOT a work!!
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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The Bible in the above passage says it's a fruit, not a gift.
It is a gift from God that comes through/as/by the fruit of the Spirit

[Eph 2:8 KJV] 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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It is a gift from God that comes through/as/by the fruit of the Spirit

[Eph 2:8 KJV] 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Grace is the gift. Parse the Greek.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
4,112
963
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It is a gift from God that comes through/as/by the fruit of the Spirit

[Eph 2:8 KJV] 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
well, that could be a great opinion but the word of God is still the word of God. Don't change it. The best commentary for Ephesian 2:8 is the writing of Paul itself when it comes to this "gift of God.". Romans 6:23 says "the Gift of God is _______________."
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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Works - Because of what law? The law that requires works, no? VS Faith- because of the law that requires faith
Did you actually read my prior post to you? It seems like I've already replied to all of these points and would rather not have
to go back through them all them again unless necessary.