Salvation is for the Whole World

[rogerg]

Thanks for clarifying that you do not agree with Scripture, that we are saved by grace through faith.

Acts 10:43~ All the prophets testify about Him that everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins through His name.

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[PennEd]

Using that logic

I didn't use logic. I simply believe the Word.

Romans 10:17
New King James Version
17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Here is the Word for "comes by". It shows that it is something IN a person, that God put there, and is drawn out from upon hearing the Word.

◄ 1537. ek or ex ►
Definition: from, from out of
Usage: from out, out from among, from, suggesting from the interior outwards.

Couple this, with Paul telling us, in Ephesians 2, that Faith is a gift of God, and a gift IS NOT a work, it is hard to dispute that not everyone has it. Hard facts I agree, but God is sovereign.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The other side could say those of self will are so arrogant they believe they choose over God. I chose my Salvation. I am in control of my life i chose.

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned. “
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16, 19‬ ‭KJV‬

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Hes trying to get us to repent and believe him so he can change our Will and align it with his Will so our actions will change from sin to righteousness

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Do all things without murmurings and disputings:”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When we hear stuff that’s like this and reject it it can’t begin to change us as it’s meant to first in our mind and heart then our actions will follow but we get stuck on our own conclusion We have to let our mind change and often we won’t allow anything in we don’t already think is true

We didn’t have a choice before Jesus

“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

( now we can do all thing through Christ)

Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: ( we can make that change he’s not saying “ you don’t need to do this he’s saying make sure you do this ) for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: neither give place to the devil. ( don’t let the devil get a foothold )

Let him that stole steal no more: ( if you steal stop now go to work and start giving to people ) but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: and be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We won’t ever change is we don’t start listening and if we do as believers listen to the scriptures we will change inside and out to be afraid of and avoid the corrections and rebuke throughout scripture can never change us

 

[Sipsey]

I didn't use logic. I simply believe the Word.

Romans 10:17
New King James Version
17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Here is the Word for "comes by". It shows that it is something IN a person, that God put there, and is drawn out from upon hearing the Word.

◄ 1537. ek or ex ►
Definition: from, from out of
Usage: from out, out from among, from, suggesting from the interior outwards.

Couple this, with Paul telling us, in Ephesians 2, that Faith is a gift of God, and a gift IS NOT a work, it is hard to dispute that not everyone has it. Hard facts I agree, but God is sovereign.

God, seems to me, quite logical, as does His Word.

 

[Magenta]

I do agree with scripture - it is that you do not comprehend it. Salvation is by/because of Christ's faith, not ours. Our faith
is a gift of that.

Ephesians 1:13-14
Notice it says when we heard and believed. .

Deny it all you like. <- to your own peril...

We are required to believe. If one does not accept God's grace, they are unbelieving and still lost.

Why do you insist on removing this from the salvation equation?

Accepting God's grace is not a work and it does not nullify the fact that it is God's grace.

 

[Cameron143]

Ephesians 1:13-14
Notice it says when we heard and believed. .

Deny it all you like. <- to your own peril...

Is hearing part of the gift?

 

[PennEd]

God, seems to me, quite logical, as does His Word.

Yeah. I'm thinking HUMAN logic, wisdom, or intellect has no bearing on receiving the Gospel.
1 Corinthians 1:26-31
New King James Version
Glory Only in the Lord
26 For ]you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. 27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence. 30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”

 

[Sipsey]

Yeah. I'm thinking HUMAN logic, wisdom, or intellect has no bearing on receiving the Gospel.
1 Corinthians 1:26-31
New King James Version
Glory Only in the Lord
26 For ]you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. 27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence. 30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”

So, you assumed I meant human logic, nope, I have studied God’s words for too long to depend upon my thinking.

 

[Magenta]

Is hearing part of the gift?

He gives sight to the blind and ears to hear.

Then the eyes of the blind will be opened and the ears of the deaf unstopped. Isaiah 35:5

 

[Cameron143]

He gives sight to the blind and ears to hear.

Then the eyes of the blind will be opened and the ears of the deaf unstopped. Isaiah 35:5

Having ears and eyes opened, will anyone reject God's gracious offer?

 

[Magenta]

Having ears and eyes opened, will anyone reject God's gracious offer?

I wonder if Roger will say we get Jesus' eyes and ears .

Hmmm, are you asking if God's grace is irresistible?

I know I resisted for a time, but when you are presented with the Truth, where do you go from there if you do not accept it?

I know for myself also, that I eventually just stopped fighting God, and then I was able to surrender my will and my life to Him.

In so doing I agreed with Him regarding my posiiton (for lack of a better word) before Him.

 

[Cameron143]

I wonder if Roger will say we get Jesus' eyes and ears .

Hmmm, are you asking if God's grace is irresistible?

I know I resisted for a time, but when you are presented with the Truth, where do you go from there if you do not accept it?

I know for myself also, that I eventually just stopped fighting God, and then I was able to surrender my will and my life to Him.

I think Roger's point is that we get all of Christ. To have the mind of Christ is to have the eyes and ears of Christ.

 

[Magenta]

I think Roger's point is that we get all of Christ. To have the mind of Christ is to have the eyes and ears of Christ.

Roger insists that if we do anything to receive or accept God's gift of grace, it nullifies God's grace and is no longer a gift.

What then is the point of every Scripture exhortation to believe?

That we receive Christ is not the point of contention.

Accepting a gift does not make it magically not a gift any more .

 

[Cameron143]

Roger insists that if we do anything to receive or accept God's gift of grace, it nullifies God's grace and is no longer a gift.

What then is the point of every Scripture exhortation to believe?

I don't agree exactly with Roger or ForestGreenCook because they nullify the human aspect of salvation. But I do believe we respond to the impetus and action of God.

 

[rogerg]

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

I'm not going to refute all the things you posted, but I felt it important to not leave what you've said above standing -
that the "saved" spoken of in that verse, is of reference to the last day - the day of the Lord. It is the complete manifestation of salvation in its final form and in being held guiltless by God of His judgment. To experience that, one had to already have become saved spiritually during their lives. It is from that salvation that faith is given. The Bible uses "saved" in both contexts.
So, using "saved" - that it comes after, and by, one's manufacturing of their faith (as is your contention), is incorrect.

[1Co 5:5 KJV] 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

 

[rogerg]

Roger insists that if we do anything to receive or accept God's gift of grace, it nullifies God's grace and is no longer a gift.

What then is the point of every Scripture exhortation to believe?

That we receive Christ is not the point of contention.

Accepting a gift does not make it magically not a gift any more .

Roger says Its purpose is the edification of the elect saints and judgement to the non-elect

[2Co 2:15-16 KJV]
15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
16 To the one [we are] the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who [is] sufficient for these things?

 

[Magenta]

I don't agree exactly with Roger or ForestGreenCook because they nullify the human
aspect of salvation. But I do believe we respond to the impetus and action of God.

I do wonder what people themselves have experienced of God's goodness and grace, and His loving kindness.

Sometimes it really seems like they are just arguing from what they have read, devoid of depth of understanding.

 

[Beckie]

Magenta

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned. “
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16, 19‬ ‭KJV‬

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Hes trying to get us to repent and believe him so he can change our Will and align it with his Will so our actions will change from sin to righteousness

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Do all things without murmurings and disputings:”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When we hear stuff that’s like this and reject it it can’t begin to change us as it’s meant to first in our mind and heart then our actions will follow but we get stuck on our own conclusion We have to let our mind change and often we won’t allow anything in we don’t already think is true

We didn’t have a choice before Jesus

“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

( now we can do all thing through Christ)

Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: ( we can make that change he’s not saying “ you don’t need to do this he’s saying make sure you do this ) for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: neither give place to the devil. ( don’t let the devil get a foothold )

Let him that stole steal no more: ( if you steal stop now go to work and start giving to people ) but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: and be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We won’t ever change is we don’t start listening and if we do as believers listen to the scriptures we will change inside and out to be afraid of and avoid the corrections and rebuke throughout scripture can never change us

I did not yell at you

 

[Beckie]

Magenta

rogerg
Reading along a good exchange on a touchy topic , Thinking wow apposing views but pleasant ! then comes the last few we are back to normal.

 

[rogerg]

I don't agree exactly with Roger or ForestGreenCook because they nullify the human aspect of salvation. But I do believe we respond to the impetus and action of God.

Well okay, how then would you interpret these verses (just to name a few) in terms of man being able to respond of himself?

[2Co 4:4 KJV] 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

or this?

[Rom 3:10-12 KJV]
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.