Hello I think I have a problem about doctrine.
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I feel the same as you and do not seek to be confrontational but to seek to better understand what you believe and understand and to share what I see in the Word. I am not a fan or follower of Joyce Meyer. I would say that what you said she said sounds fair to me.
I know that GOD rains on the just and the unjust, but if they are disobedient GOD's wrath is upon those so, how could they be blessed (happy in their soul) or right with GOD?
I know that GOD rains on the just and the unjust, but if they are disobedient GOD's wrath is upon those so, how could they be blessed (happy in their soul) or right with GOD?
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Well that is the standard bucket list of those who call Meyers a false teacher. CARM thinks everyone is a false teacher so..
1. I do know that Jesus asked the Father why He had been forsaken by Him. That sounds an awful lot as if Jesus and the Father were no longer one. I'm not sure how I would express that exactly, but it is apparent that the Father turned away. We cannot fathom what Jesus bearing all the sins of the world must have been like or what it must have been like to be disconnected from everything you knew from forever to forever.
2. I think we need to better understand what bearing the full weight of the wrath of God was. Thankfully, we do not have to experience that.
3. You must know that Peter 3:19 is controversial among believers and there are different understandings. But maybe you could explain what it means?
18For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit, 19in whom He also went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. I Peter 3
I have read the prophetic theory some have offered to avoid the obvious understanding that Jesus did something we think He should not have done.
4. I know Jesus suffered and it was far more than physical. The worst was most likely separation from God the Father. There are a few scripture verses that seem to indicate Jesus went to Sheol.
10 For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol, nor let your holy one see corruption. The KJ says hell, but that is not a correct translation. Psalm 16
Here is a pretty unbiased article from Got Questions that explains the different understandings. It becomes plain to see that bias plays a big part in some asserting Jesus did not preach to anyone nor enter sheol.
5. We must believe Jesus died in our place. If we do not believe that, we are not saved. Perhaps that is what she is saying. See, these little snippets are taken out of context. You can make anyone say anything when you do that. The left does it all the time and the right is not a whole lot better.
6. No we are not little gods. Let's hope we have all arrived at the proper understanding which is not that we are little gods.
7. This one is good. Do you consider yourself still a sinner? Didn't you state not that long ago that the Bible calls saved people saints? You know you did. I know many refer to themselves as sinners and they live it out too. We are positionally in Christ and God does not see us as sinners. smh
8. The devil must have thought he had Jesus just where he wanted Him. I would not paint quite the picture of demons but be sure they did celebrate. They still do when Christians fall or churches are divided.
9. Revelation knowledge does not mean adding to the Bible here. Those who are cessationists make that claim, but what is really being said, is that the Holy Spirit inspires the truth of scripture...opens up our eyes to reveal the truth so that it is more than just something we are reading. Simply means God, by His Spirit, makes the reality our truth and not just some doctrine that we say we believe.
10. Meyers calls herself a teacher not a preacher. Many like to jump on ANY woman that is not dominated by the male of the species so there is that.
11. Money...do you have any idea of the worldwide ministry Joyce Meyers actually has? It takes alot of money to do what is being done through that ministry to bring others to Christ, physically help people who have come out of human trafficking and building churches and so on. Such crimes against humanity!
What limit is there for how much money a believer should have? I have not found one in scripture. Nonetheless, she will have to answer for what she does with the money she has as will we all. We will have to answer for the gifts God wished to give to the church that have been spat on and demonized.
Obviously, I took some time to answer you but I am not going to debate this. Some despise anything different from what they already know (not applying this to you but just in a general way) some are fearful and some are really not of God at all.
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Well is it really about Joyce Meyer or is it a difference in perception and whether or not we have open ears and hearts and are led by the Holy Spirit?
I don't need Joyce Meyer to lead me. Perhaps it is you who are the heretic. How is it that some people in this forum mistakenly believe they have the power of the men, filled with the Holy Spirit and the power of God, who wrote the New Testament? You are not able to rebuke me with any conviction and certainly not truth.
God will not lead you where you do not want to go but stagnant water is not refreshing
I don't need Joyce Meyer to lead me. Perhaps it is you who are the heretic. How is it that some people in this forum mistakenly believe they have the power of the men, filled with the Holy Spirit and the power of God, who wrote the New Testament? You are not able to rebuke me with any conviction and certainly not truth.
God will not lead you where you do not want to go but stagnant water is not refreshing
It is the Holy Spirit who shows Christians who are the wolves in sheep's clothing. So do you know sound Bible doctrine? If not, you need to get serious about (1) FIRSTLY getting to know sound Bible doctrine and (2) SECONDLY being able to recognize heretics and reject them.
It is because so many Christians do not know sound Bible doctrine that people like Joyce Meyer have raked in millions from poor, gullible Christians. Many churches today are failing to teach sound doctrine. Many pastors and preachers are not even well-grounded in the Word.
It is because so many Christians do not know sound Bible doctrine that people like Joyce Meyer have raked in millions from poor, gullible Christians. Many churches today are failing to teach sound doctrine. Many pastors and preachers are not even well-grounded in the Word.
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We have the scriptures and for the most part theu are quite simple to understand. The apocalyptic prophecies can be a bit sticky, bit the rest is very simple. When a teacher is way outside of the scriptures its easy to recognize if you care even a little bit.
Blaming the Holy Spirit for teaching that clearly defies what is written is dangerous grounds. At best its taking His name in vain. At worst its blasphemy.
My advice for when you hear a teacher go far beyond, or misinterpret, or change the meaning of scripture; is to stop listening to them. If you know someone else that is listening to said teacher warn them.
Blaming the Holy Spirit for teaching that clearly defies what is written is dangerous grounds. At best its taking His name in vain. At worst its blasphemy.
My advice for when you hear a teacher go far beyond, or misinterpret, or change the meaning of scripture; is to stop listening to them. If you know someone else that is listening to said teacher warn them.
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There are 2 types of works that the scriptures tell us of. Many teachers get this confused and intergrate the two.
They are seperate from each other but one will motivate the other for faith without works is dead.
By grace you are saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is a gift of GOD.
The above scripture does not allude to any thing we can do to achieve salvation but is given as a gift.
For while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.
So where is the work found in this ???
John 5:36
But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
John 10:37
If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
John 14:10
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
So what is the work of the father??
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he sent.
Now the works that your faith motivates you to do are rewarded.
Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
1 Thessalonians 1:3
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
They are seperate from each other but one will motivate the other for faith without works is dead.
By grace you are saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is a gift of GOD.
The above scripture does not allude to any thing we can do to achieve salvation but is given as a gift.
For while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.
So where is the work found in this ???
John 5:36
But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
John 10:37
If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
John 14:10
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
So what is the work of the father??
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he sent.
Now the works that your faith motivates you to do are rewarded.
Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
1 Thessalonians 1:3
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
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Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome To Chat.
Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II). ← my individual conformation By The LORD;
Grace, Peace, And JOY!… + RICH Blessings
Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II). ← my individual conformation By The LORD;
(way Better than my religious 'confirmation'!)
Grace, Peace, And JOY!… + RICH Blessings
MacArthur is NOT a rigid hard-core Calvinist. I should know.....I have listened to literally THOUSANDS of hours of his sermons.
He ALWAYS states (and has stated consistently) that the Bible is clear in saying that man responsibly to hear the gospel and Gods election are BOTH delineated in no uncertain terms.
He also says that he is a "leaky dispensationalist".
Unfortunately, I also think that his ministry is going (has gone!) to seed in a lot of ways. For obvious reasons. Pretty sad I can tell you. I bailed years ago and have perused other much more fruitful ministries to support.
He had a good run though......his early years up to lately were actually pretty good. His doctrine was orthodox and near to what is Biblically proper and correct IMO.
He ALWAYS states (and has stated consistently) that the Bible is clear in saying that man responsibly to hear the gospel and Gods election are BOTH delineated in no uncertain terms.
He also says that he is a "leaky dispensationalist".
Unfortunately, I also think that his ministry is going (has gone!) to seed in a lot of ways. For obvious reasons. Pretty sad I can tell you. I bailed years ago and have perused other much more fruitful ministries to support.
He had a good run though......his early years up to lately were actually pretty good. His doctrine was orthodox and near to what is Biblically proper and correct IMO.
Precious friend, you have no straw man here, because the Confusion is a
Dispensational one, "both sides" of the argument being Scriptural - ie:
God’s Context Of ‘prophecy/covenants/law’ program:
• TWELVE Apostles (Mat. 10:2; Luk 6:13, 22:14)
• gospel of the kingdom (Mat. 4:23, 9:35, 24:14; Mar 1:14-15)
• Commission (Mat. 28:19-20)
"faith WITHOUT works is dead" to The Twelve tribes
(James 1:1, 2:17,20,26) ►►► NO osas in view ◄◄◄
Also see the Judgment of "the nations" in Matthew 25: 31-46 =
"faith PLUS works," Correct?
Prophecy/Covenants/Law
---------
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)
God’s Other Context Of GRACE / Mystery Program Has Its Own:
• Apostle (Rom. 11:13; 1 Tim. 2:7)
• Gospel Of GRACE (1 Cor. 15:3-4; Eph. 2:8-9)
• Commission (2 Cor. 5:14-21; Eph. 3:9) To "The Body Of Christ!":
"Grace Through faith," Apart From ALL [man's] works, To Eternal Life!
(Eph 2:8-9; Rom 3:24, 4:5; Tit 3:5-7; Now God's OPERATION 1Co 12:13)
►►► OSAS In view ◄◄◄:
2) 144 Plain and Clear Passages For God's Eternal Life, According to
The Revelation Of The Mystery:
God's OPERATION On all HIS New-born babes In Christ
+
God's Eternal Assurance (hope these Clear the confusion...)
-----------------------------
Conclusion: TWO Different programs are Not the same;
Never Mix them Up in Confusion (Romans_11:6), Correct?
Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)! + RICH Blessings
Dispensational one, "both sides" of the argument being Scriptural - ie:
God’s Context Of ‘prophecy/covenants/law’ program:
• TWELVE Apostles (Mat. 10:2; Luk 6:13, 22:14)
• gospel of the kingdom (Mat. 4:23, 9:35, 24:14; Mar 1:14-15)
• Commission (Mat. 28:19-20)
"faith WITHOUT works is dead" to The Twelve tribes
(James 1:1, 2:17,20,26) ►►► NO osas in view ◄◄◄
Also see the Judgment of "the nations" in Matthew 25: 31-46 =
"faith PLUS works," Correct?
Prophecy/Covenants/Law
---------
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)
God’s Other Context Of GRACE / Mystery Program Has Its Own:
• Apostle (Rom. 11:13; 1 Tim. 2:7)
• Gospel Of GRACE (1 Cor. 15:3-4; Eph. 2:8-9)
• Commission (2 Cor. 5:14-21; Eph. 3:9) To "The Body Of Christ!":
"Grace Through faith," Apart From ALL [man's] works, To Eternal Life!
(Eph 2:8-9; Rom 3:24, 4:5; Tit 3:5-7; Now God's OPERATION 1Co 12:13)
►►► OSAS In view ◄◄◄:
2) 144 Plain and Clear Passages For God's Eternal Life, According to
The Revelation Of The Mystery:
God's OPERATION On all HIS New-born babes In Christ
+
God's Eternal Assurance (hope these Clear the confusion...)
-----------------------------
Conclusion: TWO Different programs are Not the same;
Never Mix them Up in Confusion (Romans_11:6), Correct?
Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)! + RICH Blessings