Any Post or Non-Tribbers in Here?

[TheDivineWatermark]

There's only a 45 day period from the sounding of the Seventh Trumpet to the end of the book.

1,335 days
1,290 days
______
45 days

I am not one who sees a full "45 days" being between the "1290 days" and the "1335 days" (more like "2 wks" MAX), due to some overlapping issues (just like the "1260 days" pertaining specifically to the "2 Witnesses" actually STRADDLE [i.e. "overlapping"] the two halves, rather than fitting into one or the other of the two halves [each of those halves being "1260 days" also--totaling "2520 days" (not 3x "1260"... I do NOT mean that!)])...

...and this has to do with studying out the chronology in Revelation (coupled with other books of the Bible, also), which I don't really want to get into in THIS post, as I am presently working on typing up a post addressing the Question @Ruby123 asked me earlier today... and which TOUCHES ON this issue at least a LITTLE... so it's possible you might be able to detect some of my "reasonings" on this matter ^ here, when I make that post (hopefully later this evening... like, LATE... lol).

Bottom line, the "7 Vials" are DONE by the time Rev19 / Matt24:29-31 / Isa27:12-13[,9] (and the "GREAT" trumpet--gathering the elect of Israel ['ONE-BY-ONE'], "to worship the Lord in the holy mount, AT JERUSALEM") takes place... i.e. "the MANIFESTATION of the presence/parousia of Him" (2Th2:8b), when "EVERY EYE" shall SEE Him...


So, basically, the "chronology" issues (in Rev, and other passages) keep me from seeing the "Vials" as taking place at any time other than PRIOR TO His "Return" in Rev19; and that there are not "45 days" coming between the "1290 days" and the "1335 days" for the reason I [only briefly] touched on in this post, above. (There's much more I could say on that Subject)

= )

 

[MessengerofTruth]

Welcome Snowstreet, it's good to have you here.

Don't let anyone draw you in to anything that will take away your peace.

Keep your eyes on the Author and the Finisher of your faith and let the LORD deal with the rest...

 

[cv5]

That's right! It could be anything - a n y t h i n g - as long as it fits into the pre-trib rapture fabrication...



SMH

Just using the process of elimination buddy.

The only question is IF and how it ties in to an OT Jewish trumpet.
It is highly likely that Paul was thinking about one or the other of the many MANY various trumpet calls he knew of. Nailing down precisely which one is near to impossible.

But yeah one thing we can say for sure is that it definitely happens pre-tribulation.
I do believe Revelation 4:1 is entirely significant of the rapture trumpet/shout/voice for sure. And Revelation 4:1 is definitely pre-tribulation in terms of timing.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Looks like @Evmur and @2ndTimeIsTheCharm and @Beckie tapped out.

The pre-tribbers win the day. Again. An amazing streak but not at all unexpected.....

No it's because:

Proverbs 10:19 Sin is not ended by multiplying words, but the prudent hold their tongues.

Proverbs 29:11 A fool gives full vent to his spirit, but a wise man quietly holds it back.

2 Timothy 2:14 Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers.

We're not to endlessly quarrel to have the last word as if that means you "win" because it only ruins the hearers. That's why a wise person such as the post-tribbers would just post their position once or twice for clarity and trust God that He would lead people to their posts to learn.

Also, no matter what, you don't win just because you multiply words to constantly push the false teaching of pre-trib rapture. If a person doesn't prepare themselves for what's to come because they think they're going to be raptured before the revealing of the antichrist, that person will lose.

Also just because the false teaching of pre-trib rapture is popular doesn't mean it's right.

Matthew 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

Now back to your regular incessant blather....

 

[cv5]

Also just because the false teaching of pre-trib rapture is popular doesn't mean it's right.

Impotent accusations will not and did not help you win this debate. But then again.....this is the habit of losers to begin with.
Anyways.....as always, it was another blow out win for the pre-tribbers. As is fitting, as is always the case.

Really my question for you is: why in the world would I leave the pre-trib winning team with a 100% rate of success?

BTW.....I don't know you personally, but it is obvious you are a greenhorn kid. You do know there is a biblical principle of wise elders and scholars to whom the ignorant learners obediently defer? Right?

 

[Aaron56]

Remember kids: when Jesus walked away from the crowds, the crowds "won".

Jesus: 0
the crowds: 1

Anyway, here's another egg verse: "If by chance you see a place which a bird has made for itself in a tree or on the earth, with young ones or eggs, and the mother bird seated on the young ones or on the eggs, do not take the mother bird with the young..."

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Impotent accusations will not and did not help you win this debate. But then again.....this is the habit of losers to begin with.
Anyways.....as always, it was another blow out win for the pre-tribbers. As is fitting, as is always the case.

Really my question for you is: why in the world would I leave the pre-trib winning team with a 100% rate of success?

BTW.....I don't know you personally, but it is obvious you are a greenhorn kid. You do know there is a biblical principle of wise elders and scholars to whom the ignorant learners obediently defer? Right?

You haven't won - you haven't been raptured yet! Hint - and it won't be before the tribulation. Build up your faith to endure unto the end!

Remember kids: when Jesus walked away from the crowds, the crowds "won".

Jesus: 0
the crowds: 1

Did Jesus really lose?

He came back to life and is now able to offer salvation - did He really lose? No, Jesus won.

And that crowd ultimately lost - Jerusalem was destroyed and the Jews were dispersed throughout the earth for ~2,000 years. The crowd did not win at all. The crowd lost everything.

 

[cv5]

There's only a 45 day period from the sounding of the Seventh Trumpet to the end of the book. IOW - The defecation continually hits the fan from the 7th Trumpet on.

It is inconceivable that all of these events and judgements happen in a trivial 45 days span of time.
As any military observer would know, it takes MONTHS to assemble and locate a large army in a remote location.
And this will be the largest assemblage of military forces the world has ever known.
Not only that......the actual war has not even started, and all of the events of chapters 17 and 18 have yet to be fulfilled.

16And they assembled the kings in the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

Revelation 16 (KJV) - And I heard a great (blueletterbible.org)

1Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go, pour out on the earth the seven bowls of God’s wrath.”

2So the first angel went and poured out his bowl on the earth, and loathsome, malignant sores broke out on those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image.

3And the second angel poured out his bowl into the sea, and it turned to blood like that of the dead, and every living thing in the sea died.

4And the third angel poured out his bowl into the rivers and springs of water, and they turned to blood. 5And I heard the angel of the waters say:

“Righteous are You, O Holy One,

who is and was,

because You have brought these judgments.

6For they have spilled the blood of saints and prophets,

and You have given them blood to drink,

as they deserve.”

7And I heard the altar reply:

“Yes, Lord God Almighty,

true and just are Your judgments.”

8Then the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and it was given power to scorch the people with fire. 9And the people were scorched by intense heat, and they cursed the name of God, who had authority over these plagues; yet they did not repent and give Him glory.

10And the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness, and men began to gnaw their tongues in anguish 11and curse the God of heaven for their pains and sores; yet they did not repent of their deeds.

12And the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings of the East.

13And I saw three unclean spirits that looked like frogs coming out of the mouths of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. 14These are demonic spirits that perform signs and go out to all the kings of the earth, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God the Almighty.

15“Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who remains awake and clothed, so that he will not go naked and let his shame be exposed.”

16And they assembled the kings in the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

The Seventh Bowl of Wrath

17Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came from the throne in the temple, saying, “It is done!”

18And there were flashes of lightning, and rumblings, and peals of thunder, and a great earthquake the likes of which had not occurred since men were upon the earth—so mighty was the great quake. 19The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. And God remembered Babylon the great and gave her the cup of the wine of the fury of His wrath.

20Then every island fled, and no mountain could be found. 21And great hailstones weighing almost a hundred pounds each rained down on them from above. And men cursed God for the plague of hail, because it was so horrendous.

 

[Aaron56]

You haven't won - you haven't been raptured yet! Hint - and it won't be before the tribulation. Build up your faith to endure unto the end!



Did Jesus really lose?

He came back to life and is now able to offer salvation - did He really lose? No, Jesus won.

And that crowd ultimately lost - Jerusalem was destroyed and the Jews were dispersed throughout the earth for ~2,000 years. The crowd did not win at all. The crowd lost everything.

I was addressing the idea that when people quit talking with you, you win the argument.

In truth, our Lord showed us that He was very capable of just walking away from the engagement without a word. And you are correct: He didn't lose a thing.

Here's another egg verse:
"My hand has found like a nest
the wealth of the peoples;
and as one gathers eggs that have been forsaken.."

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

I was addressing the idea that when people quit talking with you, you win the argument.

In truth, our Lord showed us that He was very capable of just walking away from the engagement without a word. And you are correct: He didn't lose a thing.

Here's another egg verse:
"My hand has found like a nest
the wealth of the peoples;
and as one gathers eggs that have been forsaken.."

The verses I posted prove otherwise. Wise people quit talking because constant arguing ruins the hearers. And a person doesn't win an argument just because they have the last word. They can still be wrong.

But, go ahead. You have the last word.

 

[Mem]

Here's another egg verse:
"My hand has found like a nest
the wealth of the peoples;
and as one gathers eggs that have been forsaken.."

Anyway, here's another egg verse: "If by chance you see a place which a bird has made for itself in a tree or on the earth, with young ones or eggs, and the mother bird seated on the young ones or on the eggs, do not take the mother bird with the young..."

Why am I feeling compelled to grab my basket and go hunting egg verses?

 

[Aaron56]

The verses I posted prove otherwise. Wise people quit talking because constant arguing ruins the hearers. And a person doesn't win an argument just because they have the last word. They can still be wrong.

But, go ahead. You have the last word.

Um, that's what I was actually saying. Jesus was wise. He did not need the last word.

 

[Aaron56]

Why am I feeling compelled to grab my basket and go hunting egg verses?

Right?!

 

[Beckie]

Below are the KJ verses speaking of great tribulation. Not one of them say the great tribulation.

Mat_24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Rev_2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Rev_7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Why / where /how do we find The Great Tribulation? adding the word 'the' can really change the meaning of a phrase .
Why do we think it is OK to add the word " the" Adding the word 'the' gives a label to a time , a label the Bible does not give. I hold there have been many time in history where Christians have had tribulation even great tribulation. Today Christians in China, or the Sudan come to mind. The Inquisition !
Guess some one will think rightly dividing ' the Word give us 'the great tribulation' .. as we piece together phrases form here and there around the Scriptures .

 

[MessengerofTruth]

"And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the Victory over the beast, and over his image, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of GOD.

And they sing the song of Moses the servant of GOD, and the song of the Lamb, saying Great and Marvellous are thy works, LORD GOD Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints." Rev. 15:2-3

please take the time to cross reference this with Rev.4 and 7.

 

[MessengerofTruth]

Below are the KJ verses speaking of great tribulation. Not one of them say the great tribulation.

Mat_24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Rev_2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Rev_7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Why / where /how do we find The Great Tribulation? adding the word 'the' can really change the meaning of a phrase .
Why do we think it is OK to add the word " the" Adding the word 'the' gives a label to a time , a label the Bible does not give. I hold there have been many time in history where Christians have had tribulation even great tribulation. Today Christians in China, or the Sudan come to mind. The Inquisition !
Guess some one will think rightly dividing ' the Word give us 'the great tribulation' .. as we piece together phrases form here and there around the Scriptures .

I think it has to do with what Jesus referred to, " For then shall be Great Tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of time, no nor ever shall be."

This is what is referred to as The Great Tribulation.

 

[Beckie]

I think it has to do with what Jesus referred to, " For then shall be Great Tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of time, no nor ever shall be."

This is what is referred to as The Great Tribulation.

I understand that MessengerofTruth. Seems to me we have taken liberties with His Word

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Below are the KJ verses speaking of great tribulation. Not one of them say the great tribulation.
[...]
Rev_7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Why / where /how do we find The Great Tribulation? adding the word 'the' can really change the meaning of a phrase .

Revelation 7:14 (per the Greek) actually says, "the tribulation the great"... it's just that many translations leave off the definite article ["the"]... (kjv, for example)...



See the phrase here (from the Greek):

https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/rev/7/14/t_concif_1174014 (the word "the" in this text looks like an " ὁ " before the word "tribulation" and after the word "tribulation" before the word "great"... So "THE tribulation THE great" the text says in this Rev7:14 verse)


... or check it out if you have an Interlinear... the word "the" is indeed in the text.





[deja vu...lol... I seem to recall pointing this out... to someone... before... ]



LEAVING OFF the word "the" where actually it belongs IN the text, really "changes the meaning," and it's too bad many translations remove it

 

[Beckie]

Revelation 7:14 (per the Greek) actually says, "the tribulation the great"... it's just that many translations leave off the definite article ["the"]... (kjv, for example)...



See the phrase here (from the Greek):

https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/rev/7/14/t_concif_1174014 (the word "the" in this text looks like an " ὁ " before the word "tribulation" and after the word "tribulation" before the word "great"... So "THE tribulation THE great" the text says in this Rev7:14 verse)


... or check it out if you have an Interlinear... the word "the" is indeed in the text.





[deja vu...lol... I seem to recall pointing this out... to someone... before... ]



LEAVING OFF the word "the" where actually it belongs IN the text, really "changes the meaning," and it's too bad many translations remove it

I am interested.... but your way of posting is confusing... You understand what you are posting but it sorta looks like shorthand to me...

 

[cv5]

Below are the KJ verses speaking of great tribulation. Not one of them say the great tribulation.

Mat_24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Rev_2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Rev_7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Why / where /how do we find The Great Tribulation? adding the word 'the' can really change the meaning of a phrase .
Why do we think it is OK to add the word " the" Adding the word 'the' gives a label to a time , a label the Bible does not give. I hold there have been many time in history where Christians have had tribulation even great tribulation. Today Christians in China, or the Sudan come to mind. The Inquisition !
Guess some one will think rightly dividing ' the Word give us 'the great tribulation' .. as we piece together phrases form here and there around the Scriptures .

You missed a few translations that properly include the definite article.....

New Living Translation
And I said to him, “Sir, you are the one who knows.” Then he said to me, “These are the ones who died in the great tribulation. They have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb and made them white.

English Standard Version
I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Berean Standard Bible
“Sir,” I answered, “you know.” So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Berean Literal Bible
And I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

New King James Version
And I said to him, “Sir, you know.” So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

New American Standard Bible
I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

NASB 1995
I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

NASB 1977
And I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Legacy Standard Bible
And I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Amplified Bible
I said to him, “My lord, you know [the answer].” And he said to me, “These are the people who come out of the great tribulation (persecution), and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb [because of His atoning sacrifice].

Christian Standard Bible
I said to him, “Sir, you know.” Then he told me: These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
I said to him, “Sir, you know.” Then he told me: These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

American Standard Version
And I say unto him, My lord, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they that come out of the great tribulation, and they washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.