These things have begun to take place

[ZNP]

30 years earlier.

Really? Where is that in Scripture?[/QUOTE]
Vines defines the greek word translated as Generation: connected with ginomai, "to become," primarily signifies "a begetting, or birth;" hence, that which has been begotten, a family; or successive members of a genealogy, Mat 1:17, or of a race of people, possessed of similar characteristics, pursuits, etc., (of a bad character) Mat 17:17; Mar 9:19; Luk 9:41; 16:8; Act 2:40; or of the whole multitude of men living at the same time, Mat 24:34; Mar 13:30; Luk 1:48; 21:32; Phl 2:15, and especially of those of the Jewish race living at the same period, Mat 11:16, etc. Transferred from people to the time in which they lived, the word came to mean "an age," i.e., a period ordinarily occupied by each successive generation, say, of thirty or forty years, Act 14:16; 15:21; Eph 3:5; Col 1:26; see also, e.g., Gen 15:16. In Eph 3:21 genea is combined with aion in a remarkable phrase in a doxology: "Unto Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus, unto all generations for ever and ever (wrongly in AV 'all ages, world without end')." The word genea is to be distinguished from aion, as not denoting a period of unlimited duration.

Strong's defines the word here:

γενεά, -ᾶς, ἡ, (ΓΕΝΩ, γίνομαι [cf. Curtius, p. 610]); Sept. often for דּוֹר; in Greek writings from Homer down;
1. a begetting, birth, nativity: Herodotus 3, 33; Xenophon, Cyril 1, 2, 8, etc.; [others make the collective sense the primary significance, see Curtius as above].

 

[Nehemiah6]

This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished

A lot of Christians forget that the Greek word genea* translated as generation can also apply to a race or nation. And that is probably more accurate. The nation of Israel (the race of Jews) will not pass away, but it will be severely judged for its unbelief. Eventually Israel will be redeemed and restored.

*Strong's Concordance
genea: race, family, generation
Original Word: γενεά, ᾶς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: genea
Phonetic Spelling: (ghen-eh-ah')
Definition: race, family, generation
Usage: a generation; if repeated twice or with another time word, practically indicates infinity of time.

To limit that to a generation as normally understood will not really apply, since the Second Coming of Christ is in the future and we do not know exactly when it will occur.

 

[ZNP]

A lot of Christians forget that the Greek word genea* translated as generation can also apply to a race or nation. And that is probably more accurate. The nation of Israel (the race of Jews) will not pass away, but it will be severely judged for its unbelief. Eventually Israel will be redeemed and restored.

*Strong's Concordance
genea: race, family, generation
Original Word: γενεά, ᾶς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: genea
Phonetic Spelling: (ghen-eh-ah')
Definition: race, family, generation
Usage: a generation; if repeated twice or with another time word, practically indicates infinity of time.

To limit that to a generation as normally understood will not really apply, since the Second Coming of Christ is in the future and we do not know exactly when it will occur.

As I said in the post there are multiple interpretations and the word of God is a two edged sword.

On the one hand what you say is true, however, the context of the comment was answering a question about the signs that would tell us when these things will be.

Jesus said you would see the fig tree sprout forth and that is how you would know that summer is near. It is a sign that tells you that summer is near. We saw Israel and all the trees in the Mid East sprout forth after WWI and after WWII.

So yes what you say is true, but it undermines the Lord's using this as a sign that tells you when.

Israel being reformed as a nation was one of the biggest fulfillment's of prophecy second only to all the prophecies concerning Jesus crucifixion. This is a sign to us about "when" these things will take place. He gives us a list in Luke 21 and then tells us that this generation at the time of Israel's rebirth will not pass away.

Therefore I don't disagree with those who use this to refer to the destruction of the temple, nor do I disagree with those who talk about this in reference to God's promises towards Israel will not pass away, but as a prophecy telling us when I believe it gives us this 70-80 year time frame.

 

[snowstreet]

Most of the time a fig tree doesn't represent Israel.

Verse 32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

Verse 33 - So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

This fig tree illustration isn't that difficult to understand.

VERSE 34 - Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Jesus uses the word 'THIS'. It's also the same word as THAT. 'This generation' refers to the generation that SEES the events PASS that Jesus mentions between verses 3 and 33. That generation will see and endure what he is talking about. In MT. 24 Jesus' return compared the last days events to summer being near. The generation that sees them pass is compared to seeing the buds on fig trees. We know summer is near - we know Christ return is near. Simple enough?

The antecedent to "this Generation" in verse 34 is ALL of what Jesus said between verses 4-33.

Absolutely nothing to do with Israel...unless you're a pretribber or Preterist!

 

[ZNP]

Most of the time a fig tree doesn't represent Israel.

Verse 32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

Verse 33 - So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

This fig tree illustration isn't that difficult to understand.

VERSE 34 - Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Jesus uses the word 'THIS'. It's also the same word as THAT. 'This generation' refers to the generation that SEES the events PASS that Jesus mentions between verses 3 and 33. That generation will see and endure what he is talking about. In MT. 24 Jesus' return compared the last days events to summer being near. The generation that sees them pass is compared to seeing the buds on fig trees. We know summer is near - we know Christ return is near. Simple enough?

The antecedent to "this Generation" in verse 34 is ALL of what Jesus said between verses 4-33.

Absolutely nothing to do with Israel...unless you're a pretribber or Preterist!

I am aware of this exclusive interpretation and feel it does not hold up to a careful reading of Luke 21

However, time will tell. If 2030 comes along and the Lord has not returned in glory in the clouds then you will be right.

 

[snowstreet]

I've seen that page before.

I would like to know how you come up with a 70–80-year generation in Psalm 91?

 

[snowstreet]

I am aware of this exclusive interpretation and feel it does not hold up to a careful reading of Luke 21

However, time will tell. If 2030 comes along and the Lord has not returned in glory in the clouds then you will be right.

What does 2030 have to do with the Lord's return and the rapture?

My guess is that you believe the rapture occurs before Agenda 2020 is fully implemented.

 

[snowstreet]

Correction: I meant to say UN Agenda 2030.

 

[ZNP]

When you shall hear of wars and tumults

Luke 21:9 And when ye shall hear of wars and tumults, be not terrified: for these things must needs come to pass first; but the end is not immediately.

Let us consider this prior to 1900. There is no such thing as radio, or TV, or telecommunications. If you heard in America that Russia was fighting in Ukraine, the news would be months old and you certainly wouldn't be terrified from it. A war in Vietnam, again, wouldn't terrify you. Same thing with Iraq or Afghanistan. Before TV and Radio our "rumors" of war were really minimal. It is really since WWII and the creation of the CIA along with radio and TV that a constant news about wars and rumors of war have been frightening. Think about the Cuban missile crisis. It really wasn't until nuclear bombs and ICBM's that we began to be "terrified" about whatever Russia or China or Iran or North Korea was doing.

The Lord said that the gospel would go out into the whole world, everywhere. So then it has really only been during this post WWII generation, the boomers, that people have become terrified by rumors of war. It is only recently that we have a doomsday clock (1947).

Also we have had regional wars before but it was really only since WWI that we had wars that involved the whole world. In the 1800s we (those in America) didn't really care if Russia or China or Afghanistan was in a war. The situation is very different today. We care about imports, exports, whether or not Finland is using fertilizer or whether or not Ukraine will be exporting wheat.

My point is this prophecy made sense at Jesus time for people living in Israel, but it makes much more sense today for people living anywhere in the world.

10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom;

Absolutely true, many, many wars over the last two thousand years. It is very hard to count them all and like Jesus said, some you might classify as "tumults" rather than wars.

11 and there shall be great earthquakes, and in divers places

You might think I was stretching when talking about people not being terrified of wars in far off lands until just recently. But this prophecy here can only be fulfilled today. At the time of Jesus if they didn't feel the earthquake they pretty much didn't know about it. Perhaps if it was really terrible like the Tsunami in Indonesia you might hear about it a few months later. But ever since WWII we have had seismometers that can tell us when and where there was an earthquake anywhere on Earth. We can hear immediately about a big earthquake in Turkey and with telecommunications we can see images instantly of what is going on. Today we can hear daily about a 5.5 earthquake in the middle of the ocean, or a 6.5 earthquake on another continent. That was unheard of 100 years ago. Unless it was a devastating earthquake and then it would show up in the newspaper a day or two later. If you pick up a small town newspaper from 100 years ago it will be talking about a new post office, or something happening at the local church. It was focused on local news and the weather. No one was terrified about wars or rumors of war unless it was the Civil war, and no one knew about earthquakes in divers places, much less terrified of them.

 

[ZNP]

What does 2030 have to do with the Lord's return and the rapture?

My guess is that you believe the rapture occurs before Agenda 2020 is fully implemented.

I would prefer not to talk about the rapture in this thread, the title of this thread is based on a verse that says when you see these things begin to take place look up for your redemption draws near. Instead of the rapture I'd prefer to talk about our redemption drawing near because that includes everyone who is a believer, those who are raptured as well as those who are martyred.

I think by the year 2026 or 2027 we will be in the Great tribulation, the last 3 1/2 years of the 70th week of Daniel. I think the start of the Great tribulation is when God pours out His wrath and we are told in the NT that God did not appoint the believers to wrath. So by that point all believers will be gone.

 

[ZNP]

I've seen that page before.

I would like to know how you come up with a 70–80-year generation in Psalm 91?

My mistake, Psalm 90:10 The days of our years are threescore years and ten,
Or even by reason of strength fourscore years;
Yet is their pride but labor and sorrow;
For it is soon gone, and we fly away.

 

[snowstreet]

I would prefer not to talk about the rapture in this thread, the title of this thread is based on a verse that says when you see these things begin to take place look up for your redemption draws near. Instead of the rapture I'd prefer to talk about our redemption drawing near because that includes everyone who is a believer, those who are raptured as well as those who are martyred.

I think by the year 2026 or 2027 we will be in the Great tribulation, the last 3 1/2 years of the 70th week of Daniel. I think the start of the Great tribulation is when God pours out His wrath and we are told in the NT that God did not appoint the believers to wrath. So by that point all believers will be gone.

Well I'm not a dispensationalist so I don't agree with the 70th week scenario, but I do think that by 2026-27 things will be much worse than we imagine. Tribulation...maybe.

I tend to be in the range of 2033 - 2043 the Lord returns.

 

[snowstreet]

My mistake, Psalm 90:10 The days of our years are threescore years and ten,
Or even by reason of strength fourscore years;
Yet is their pride but labor and sorrow;
For it is soon gone, and we fly away.

That's what I thought.

That's referring to a human lifespan - not a Jewish generation which is more like ANY generation. 40 or so years.

 

[ZNP]

That's what I thought.

That's referring to a human lifespan - not a Jewish generation which is more like ANY generation. 40 or so years.

I posted the Vine's and Strong's definition of this word that we translate as "generation" the word is strongly related to lifespan from birth. Post #21

 

[snowstreet]

I posted the Vine's and Strong's definition of this word that we translate as "generation" the word is strongly related to lifespan from birth. Post #21

Vines on the word generation - or of the whole multitude of men living at the same time,

IOW - the generation of people that see the events pass that Jesus mentioned!

Strong's - (i. e. the time ordinarily occupied by each successive generation), the space of from 30 to 33 years

 

[ZNP]

It is perfectly valid to have multiple interpretations and plausible interpretations of this word that "this generation shall not pass away until". However, there are many, many more signs and prophecies and as we add those it will become apparent that many of these interpretations are no longer valid.

For example the Lord has made it very clear that no one knows the day or the hour but that doesn't rule out Him giving us a 80 year time range when all of this will be accomplished.

So far, based on what we have seen in Luke 21 through verse 11 I would say we have ruled out anything prior to 1948. Anything that took place before the rebirth of Israel and all the other Mid East nations, anything before radio and TV was in every home, anything before telecommunications and the CIA's attempt to keep people in fear and "terror". But we are only scratching the surface of the prophecies.

21:11b and in divers places famines and pestilences; and there shall be terrors and great signs from heaven.

So then let's consider the famines and pestilences and great terrors in the last 100 years.

Of course the Atom bomb was a great terror that has put a cloud over the last 80 years.

Chernobyl is also a great terror.

There have been other horrible disasters like Exxon Valdez, Bhophal, and East Palestine train derailment. We have had numerous toxic spills.

None of these things could have taken place prior to WWII. We didn't begin experimenting in earnest with nuclear power or major chemical plants until after that war. Nitrogen fertilizers and plastic were some of the big things that spurred the development of chemical plants. We had been pumping oil for several decades prior to this and there are always spills, but giant tankers shipping oil around the world, that was not a big deal prior to WWII.

I looked on Wikipedia and they list 53 famines worldwide since WWII! It is incredible. Yes we had them before but never this frequently and with this intensity.

Likewise with plagues. Six of the 12 biggest plagues in human history have taken place since WWI. They list 75 plagues that have taken place since the year 2000. Not all were worldwide like Covid, or monkeypox or swine flu, or hepatitis, or Zika, or Ebola, or MERS. But who knows, with our modern travel they could be. Again, plagues are far more terrifying now that we can be anywhere in the world in a few hours.

Great signs in the heavens. Here is one example,

However, there are other "great signs". Four consecutive blood moons on Jewish feast days is considered to be a major sign throughout the last two thousand years, every time being a harbinger of some major event.

Here is probably the other really big sign

 

[ZNP]

Vines on the word generation - or of the whole multitude of men living at the same time,

IOW - the generation of people that see the events pass that Jesus mentioned!

Strong's - (i. e. the time ordinarily occupied by each successive generation), the space of from 30 to 33 years

We will look at that theory and it certainly has a valid application, I have already mentioned that.

Luke says:
12 But before all these things, they shall lay their hands on you, and shall persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons, bringing you before kings and governors for my name’s sake. 13 It shall turn out unto you for a testimony. 14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate beforehand how to answer: 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to withstand or to gainsay.

Here the Lord is specifically talking to the Apostles. It is possible that wars and tumults could refer to Jerusalem, but it is very clear that this word about the persecution of the apostles went far after 70AD. Peter and James wrote to those in the dispersion. John was on Patmos about twenty years after that. So when the Lord refers to the persecution of the apostles as "before all these things" it supports the idea that He was talking about the end of the age and the age of the apostles is at the start of the age of grace whereas the other things He was talking about was much later. I have already pointed out that prior to world wars, atomic bombs, telecommunications, and toxic spills the other verses don't make sense, at least nothing like they do today. Prior to WWII people in America didn't care too much about what happened in Russia, after WWII they did. No one knew about earthquakes in divers places prior to WWII, after that we do. This chapter presents two generations, the apostles as part of Jesus' generation and the last generation.

Psalm 48:13 That ye may tell it to the generation following.

This word translated "following" means "hindermost" or "terminal" or "last". This word is saying go tell this to the last generation.

So what is "this" referring to?

In verse 4 it says the kings of the earth assembled themselves together and they saw the city of the great king, they were amazed. This chapter is a prophesy, the book of Psalms are filled with prophesies, the nineteenth book of the Bible, the 48th chapter describes the UN coming together to bring forth the rebirth of Israel in an hour. Many were amazed, others trembled.

This prophesy is telling us that this is "the terminal generation".

 

[Inquisitor]

We will get to that and there are some stunning correlations between the prophecies in Daniel, the year the Dome of the Rock was built and the number of years since that time.

Oh, I can't wait.

 

[Inquisitor]

It is perfectly valid to have multiple interpretations and plausible interpretations of this word that "this generation shall not pass away until". However, there are many, many more signs and prophecies and as we add those it will become apparent that many of these interpretations are no longer valid.

For example the Lord has made it very clear that no one knows the day or the hour but that doesn't rule out Him giving us a 80 year time range when all of this will be accomplished.

So far, based on what we have seen in Luke 21 through verse 11 I would say we have ruled out anything prior to 1948. Anything that took place before the rebirth of Israel and all the other Mid East nations, anything before radio and TV was in every home, anything before telecommunications and the CIA's attempt to keep people in fear and "terror". But we are only scratching the surface of the prophecies.

21:11b and in divers places famines and pestilences; and there shall be terrors and great signs from heaven.

So then let's consider the famines and pestilences and great terrors in the last 100 years.

Of course the Atom bomb was a great terror that has put a cloud over the last 80 years.

Chernobyl is also a great terror.

There have been other horrible disasters like Exxon Valdez, Bhophal, and East Palestine train derailment. We have had numerous toxic spills.

None of these things could have taken place prior to WWII. We didn't begin experimenting in earnest with nuclear power or major chemical plants until after that war. Nitrogen fertilizers and plastic were some of the big things that spurred the development of chemical plants. We had been pumping oil for several decades prior to this and there are always spills, but giant tankers shipping oil around the world, that was not a big deal prior to WWII.

I looked on Wikipedia and they list 53 famines worldwide since WWII! It is incredible. Yes we had them before but never this frequently and with this intensity.

Likewise with plagues. Six of the 12 biggest plagues in human history have taken place since WWI. They list 75 plagues that have taken place since the year 2000. Not all were worldwide like Covid, or monkeypox or swine flu, or hepatitis, or Zika, or Ebola, or MERS. But who knows, with our modern travel they could be. Again, plagues are far more terrifying now that we can be anywhere in the world in a few hours.

Great signs in the heavens. Here is one example,

However, there are other "great signs". Four consecutive blood moons on Jewish feast days is considered to be a major sign throughout the last two thousand years, every time being a harbinger of some major event.

Here is probably the other really big sign

Is this one below a sign?

"East Palestine train derailment."

Never heard of it.

 

[ZNP]

Is this one below a sign?

"East Palestine train derailment."

Never heard of it.

The East Palestine train derailment took place a few days ago in Ohio, it created a toxic cloud of Phosgene gas which killed tens of thousands of animals and fish and has made the water toxic.

The attitude of the President, ignoring the people in Ohio while offering Billions to relocate people in Ukraine was very offensive and it was noted that a movie depicting virtually the same thing (train derailment followed by toxic cloud and evacuation) was made in the very same part of the country and people from East Palestine were even extras in the film. Then it was noted that the very creepy and occultic movie of I Pet Goat seems to depict a palestinian woman with a poisoned baby that takes place at the time of the superbowl (this derailment took place one week before the Superbowl which is considered the start of Superbowl week.)