Any Post or Non-Tribbers in Here?

[MessengerofTruth]

Actually.....no. I won't see. The 70th week tribulation that is.

Anyhoo.......as I earlier stated, posties are always and inevitably getting toasted by the pre-tribbers.
Exactly what you would expect to happen when a doctrine has no Biblical support.

I wonder, what do you believe is next to come?

According to your understanding, Have we already seen the great tribulation, the anti-christ, and the mark of the beast?

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

If you do a word study on falling away, you will see that it is not a good thing.

1) Yes, not good for the UNbelievers who are "left behind" on earth.

And:

2) Yes, not good for believers who did not prepare properly, for the
Judgment Seat Of Christ, in Heaven, and have their "bad works burned up."
[no rewards or reigning With Christ?] (1 Corinthians 3:8-15), Eh?

At the Last Trump the dead in Christ will rise. 1Cor.15:51-52.

Depends Which "Last Trump" and which Dispensation to which It belongs - ie:

Since Paul said "last trump" (1Co_15:52), that necessitates, at the least, ONE
Previous "Trump," Correct? Which Was, for The [ Heavenly ] Body Of Christ:

The First Trump Was The 'Voice Of God': "Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou Me?"
(Acts 9:4), Opening The Dispensation Of GRACE, and, Then, Closing This Current Age:

The Voice Of God: "Come UP Hither!" At our Great GRACE Departure, "Gathering
The Body Of Christ TO Himself, According To The Scriptures of:

"The Revelation Of God's Mystery," and "The Day Of Light!" Amen?

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

Prophecy 'Day Of Darkness' Coming, Gathering/Judgment [ earthly ] Event
(Daniel, Matthew, and Revelation), about the prophesied 'Second Coming,'
with these choices?:

a) [as many think] at the "last [?] trumpet of the seventh angel" (Rev 11:15)?
or

b1) at the "next [last?] trumpet"?:

"Mat_24:31 And He Shall Send His angels with a great sound of a​

trumpet, and THEY shall gather together His [ nation of Israel ]​

elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."​

​

b2) for judgment on earth (Mat 25:31-32), Correct?
------------------------------------
Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)! + RICH Blessings

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

[...] is not the day of the Lord which comes after the 1, 000 years

No it doesn't.

Paul had already stated in his first epistle (1Th5:1-3) that "the day of the Lord" ARRIVES "exactly like [hosper]" the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman with child... And Jesus spoke of THAT VERY THING ("birth PANGS [PLURAL]"--SAME WORD Paul is using!), in His Olivet Discourse, which discourse is Jesus covering the Subject of His Second Coming to the earth (and the time-period that immediately PRECEDES and LEADS UP TO that);
"The beginning of birth PANGS" are EQUIVALENT the "SEALS" of Rev6 (which occur within the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period, per 1:1/1:19c/4:1, i.e. the 7-yr Trib)... and that is WELL-BEFORE the END of the MK age[!]... and even well-prior to the MID-trib "abomination of desolation" point in the chronology (Matt24:15/Dan12:11).

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ And P.S. ...it is not merely "a singular 24-hr day" kind of day... but a VERY LENGTHY (earthly-located) time-period, with MUCH transpiring WITHIN IT. (As I explained in a previous post, its THREE ASPECTS: "IN THE NIGHT" [7-yr Trib]... "SUN of righteousness ARISE" [Christ's RETURN to the earth / 2nd Coming]... "reign... GLORIOUSLY" [the 1000-yr reign]--ALL THREE ASPECTS are what is known as "THE DAY OF THE LORD" [only ever EARTHLY-located].)

 

[MessengerofTruth]

Depends Which "Last Trump" and which Dispensation to which It belongs - ie:

Where do you find more than one last trump?

a) [as many think] at the "last [?] trumpet of the seventh angel" (Rev 11:15)?
or

b1) at the "next [last?] trumpet"?:

"Mat_24:31 And He Shall Send His angels with a great sound of atrumpet, and THEY shall gather together His [ nation of Israel ]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."b2) for judgment on earth (Mat 25:31-32), Correct?

I see continuity in believing that these are the same tumpets.

The First Trump Was The 'Voice Of God': "Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou Me?"
(Acts 9:4), Opening The Dispensation Of GRACE, and, Then, Closing This Current Age:

I do not see this in scripture could you clarify?

 

[cv5]

According to your understanding, Have we already seen the great tribulation, the anti-christ, and the mark of the beast?

Evidently you have woefully miscalculated as to what is my understanding.

We (Christians) definitely have NOT seen ANY of those three things. Nor will we.
You see, all three of those scenarios occur WITHIN the confines of the 70th week FUTURE tribulation time period.

We are clearly shown to have been raptured BEFORE these incidences ever take place.
See the 24 elders, describing themselves and being described in PRECISELY the same terms as
the 7 Churches of Rev 2 & 3.

Rev 5:9
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 4:4
And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
Rev 4:10
The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
Rev 5:11
And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
Rev 11:16
and the twenty and four elders, who before God are sitting upon their thrones, did fall upon their faces, and did bow before God,

 

[cv5]

It is amazing when the LORD begins to lead you how you come to realize that many that have great swelling of words and men's admiration are often dupes or shills for the dark side.

If Christian's could truly understand that the Jesuits were very deliberate in inserting false doctrine to cause divisions and to infiltrate to cause whole movements of GOD to be turned aside.

They are insidious.

"They are fearful and frightened of Darby-ish (and Jesuit-ish) apparitions."

 

[cv5]

The Voice Of God: "Come UP Hither!" At our Great GRACE Departure, "Gathering. The Body Of Christ TO Himself, According To The Scriptures of:

Amen to that bro.....

Rev 4:1
After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

 

[cv5]

^ And P.S. ...it is not merely "a singular 24-hr day" kind of day... but a VERY LENGTHY (earthly-located) time-period, with MUCH transpiring WITHIN IT. (As I explained in a previous post, its THREE ASPECTS: "IN THE NIGHT" [7-yr Trib]... "SUN of righteousness ARISE" [Christ's RETURN to the earth / 2nd Coming]... "reign... GLORIOUSLY" [the 1000-yr reign]--ALL THREE ASPECTS are what is known as "THE DAY OF THE LORD" [only ever EARTHLY-located].)

" "IN THE NIGHT" [7-yr Trib]"

@MessengerofTruth : you would commend yourself should you study this critical feature of the text.....

 

[cv5]

Have we already seen the great tribulation, the anti-christ, and the mark of the beast?

BTW.......if you did not know, that is the basic (and absurdly erroneous) historicist/a-mill/post-mill/preterist take on eschatology.

An historicist view in a nutshell: something means anything and everything means nothing.

 

[MessengerofTruth]

Evidently you have woefully miscalculated as to what is my understanding.

I just want to say that I am asking to gain an understanding.

We (Christians) definitely have NOT seen ANY of those three things. Nor will we.
You see, all three of those scenarios occur WITHIN the confines of the 70th week FUTURE tribulation time period.

We are clearly shown to have been raptured BEFORE these incidences ever take place.
See the 24 elders, describing themselves and being described in PRECISELY the same terms as
the 7 Churches of Rev 2 & 3.

Rev 5:9
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 4:4
And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
Rev 4:10
The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
Rev 5:11
And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
Rev 11:16
and the twenty and four elders, who before God are sitting upon their thrones, did fall upon their faces, and did bow before Go

It nowhere states that Rev.4 is speaking of the event as though it takes place before the tribulation.

In fact, Rev.7 has the same scenario and it states plainly that the great number came out of Great Tribulation.

 

[MessengerofTruth]

"They are fearful and frightened of Darby-ish (and Jesuit-ish) apparitions."

I find this assertion to be an ad hominem.

 

[cv5]

I find this assertion to be an ad hominem.

OK man. Its a free country.

 

[MessengerofTruth]

BTW.......if you did not know, that is the basic (and absurdly erroneous) historicist/a-mill/post-mill/preterist take on eschatology.

An historicist view in a nutshell: something means anything and everything means nothing.

Thank you for clarifying.

 

[cv5]

I just want to say that I am asking to gain an understanding.

It nowhere states that Rev.4 is speaking of the event as though it takes place before the tribulation.

In fact, Rev.7 has the same scenario and it states plainly that the great number came out of Great Tribulation.

This is what the unlearned posties all say. Nothing new to the pre-tribbers.
We pre-tribbers all know the difference between a "tribulation saint" and the Church which is His Body, aka the Bride.
And the difference between the "Church age" and the DOTL.

 

[MessengerofTruth]

It nowhere states that Rev.4 is speaking of the event as though it takes place before the tribulation.

Or during rather...

 

[cv5]

Looks like @Evmur and @2ndTimeIsTheCharm and @Beckie tapped out.

The pre-tribbers win the day. Again. An amazing streak but not at all unexpected.....

 

[cv5]

Tynedale
let no man deceive you by any means except there come a departing first and that that man of sin be opened.

You make it say, concerning the rapture, that day will not come unless there has been a rapture first. It doesn't make sense.

No @Evmur .....YOU "make it say" that.
No pre-tribber says that is says that.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

I just want to say that I am asking to gain an understanding.

I Totally appreciate your diligent seeking of understanding God's Word Of Truth.
It has been a long hard road for some of us, amidst Much Confusion.

Where do you find more than one last trump?

I see continuity in believing that these are the same tumpets.

I do not see this in scripture could you clarify?

1) More that ONE "Last Trump"? Sorry for the error of my wording; there
is only One Last Trump (Voice of God) at the End of This Current
[ Mystery ] Dispensation Of The Grace Of God:

1Co_15:51-52 KJV "Behold, I shew you A Mystery; We shall not all​

sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling​

of an eye, at the last Trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the​

dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.​

+

1Th_4:16 KJV For The LORD Himself shall descend from heaven with​

a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the Trump of God:​

and the dead in Christ shall rise first:​

+

"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the [ Mystery ] Coming of our​

LORD Jesus Christ, and by our Gathering Together Unto Him"​

(2 Thessalonians 2:1)​

+

"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with​

them in the clouds, to meet The LORD in the air: and so shall we ever be​

with The LORD. Wherefore Comfort one another with These Words."​

(1 Thessalonians 4:17-18)​

​

Mystery/Grace 'resurrection/rapture' Of The [ Heavenly ] Body Of Christ ♫ 😇 ↑

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

Prophecy/covenants for [ earthly ] Israel

2) continuity of two Different trumpets being the "same last trumpet"
in God's Prophetic Program?:

​

a) an angel "sounding in heaven," Before Christ's [ prophesied ] Coming
To earth?:

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices​

in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the​

kingdoms of our LORD, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for​

ever and ever." (Revelation 11:15 KJV)​

b) After Christ Comes to the earth, for His people, [ earthly ] Israel?:

"When the Son of man shall Come in His Glory, and all the holy ​

angels with Him, then Shall He Sit upon the throne of His Glory:"​

(Matthew 25:31)​

And He Shall Send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and​

THEY shall gather together His [ nation of Israel ] elect from the four​

winds, from one end of heaven to the other." (Matthew 24:31 KJV)​

Thus, I do not see, in prophecy, how the "seventh angel sounding in heaven,"
and, also "the great sound of a trumpet" on earth, are in continuity, the same
[last? ] trumpet of prophecy.
--------------------

The First Trump Was The 'Voice Of God': "Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou Me?"
(Acts 9:4), Opening The Dispensation Of GRACE, and, Then, Closing This Current Age:

The Voice Of God: "Come UP Hither!" At our Great GRACE Departure, "Gathering
The Body Of Christ TO Himself, According To The Scriptures of:

"The Revelation Of God's Mystery," and "The Day Of Light!" Amen?

3) For Clarification?:

a) God's First Trump, Opening The Current Dispensation Of Grace:

"And he fell to the earth, and Heard A Voice [ Of God ] Saying Unto​

him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou Me [ Jesus ]?" (Acts 9:4)​

b) God's Last Trump, Closing The Current Dispensation Of Grace:

"For The LORD Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,​

with the voice of the archangel, and with the Trump [ Voice ] of God:​

and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" (1 Thessalonians 4:16)​

​

Again, @MessengerofTruth, appreciate your diligence in this Important
Matter, especially since you probably have to teach your nine children?:

These Truths of God's Word.​

---------------------
Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II) ← with These, my own journey out of Confusion began!
+
RICH Blessings

 

[cv5]

Where do you find more than one last trump?

I see continuity in believing that these are the same tumpets.

I do not see this in scripture could you clarify?

Here you go. Yes, there IS in fact a distinction to be made with OUR specific "trumpet", the one that assembles the Church.
A lot of other intensely interesting peripheral tidbits in these links to feast on as well. Enjoy!

https://christianchat.com/threads/post-trib-rapture.209486/post-5012100

https://christianchat.com/threads/what-is-your-best-proof-for-a-pre-trib-rapture.188798/post-4096664

https://christianchat.com/threads/one-taken-one-left-the-rapture.204441/post-4795726

https://christianchat.com/threads/h...ular-in-the-modern-church.201091/post-4707098

https://christianchat.com/threads/l...the-rapture-is-compelling.197095/post-4548535

https://christianchat.com/threads/5...ure-by-dr-john-f-walvoord.198357/post-4541615

https://christianchat.com/threads/5...ure-by-dr-john-f-walvoord.198357/post-4540456

https://christianchat.com/threads/twinkling-of-an-eye.184441/post-3927383

https://christianchat.com/threads/the-great-wonder-woman-revelation-12.196616/post-4459769