Genesis 1:1 What is your interpretation?

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Jun 20, 2022
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#41
Please stop the diversion. I can get into a debate about evolution using Darwin's own quotes to disprove his theory, but that is not the focus of the question. The question is basically about the building blocks of the universe which are energy, time, space, and matter. your long-winded reply proves to all the purpose of this discussion that man complicates the simplicity of the Bible. The diversion proves that you know nothing about what you read and just shot off a reply. Please focus on the subject at hand.

I was not looking for a mathematical formula to support this. This is exactly the problem I was talking about. In its simplest form, God created time, space, energy, and matter. All of the mathematical formulas prove God's existence by proving an orderly, divine existence of creation, which is balanced on a "razor"s edge, tweaked in just the right places. Look up the Mandelbrot set and creation articles to learn from this. I have read many articles on this subject. The best resource I use is: https://www.icr.org/
Even in Darwins Origins of the Species, he gives Creator God the credit. He simply saw that God exists but things can be explained scientifically.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,526
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#44
Just wondering about some input to stimulate this group. Does it support science?

It might be good to take a step back, and rethink both terms and issues.


Scripture, Nature, & Science:
1.) God created both nature and scripture.
2.) So, inasmuch as we have a right understanding of both nature and scripture, they will correlate.
3.) To whatever degree we have a wrong understanding of either, then they will fail to correlate to that degree.
4.) Science is merely mankind's "study" of the natural world... so scientific observations and conclusions, because they are the work of man, have the ability to be either accurate or inaccurate.
5.) Although scripture is divine, the interpretation of scripture by men is not... so interpretations may also be either accurate or inaccurate.
6.) We have logical principles for interpreting nature, which are sometimes ignored in science - and we have logical principles for interpreting scripture, which are sometimes ignored in exegesis.
7.) Both nature and scripture are divinely created: they will always agree, and show the fingerprint of God, whenever they are both understood accurately.
8.) Since mankind is fallen, and is imperfect in both moral character and intellect, we should expect to encounter some misunderstandings of both nature and scripture. (The trick, of course, is to discern which is which.)

These are the realities that constrain us.


Atheist/Materialist View:
1. Christians don't believe in science.
2. Science and Religion are, and must be, at odds. They are antithetical... they cannot both exist.
3. Since there is no God, then science is the default measure of all truth... religion is merely wishful thinking.


Christian View:
1. Christians DO believe in science - but they believe scientists are capable of error.
2. Since God created both Nature and Scripture, they are, and must be, in perfect harmony.
3. Science and Scripture are NOT at odds, and CANNOT be at odds, unless one of them is interpreted incorrectly.
4. All discrepancies between Science and Religion are merely a result of poor interpretation: either nature or scripture has been understood incorrectly.
5. In order to harmonize "proper science" and "proper theology", we should recognize that both require some study... and it's possible that we, as mere humans, will make a few mistakes along the way.
6. CERTAINTY:
Finally, just because humans and prone to error, does not mean we cannot have confidence in things which are extremely clear. Some things in both scripture and nature are just very very clear.... there are many things of which we can be certain. In both scripture and science, it is safe to start with the certain things, and then work outward.


Sometimes when issues are in great conflict, if we simply clarify terms and positions... everything becomes easier.

.

.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
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#45
Even in Darwins Origins of the Species, he gives Creator God the credit. He simply saw that God exists but things can be explained scientifically.
That was about as lame an excuse that anyone could invent. Evolution turned out to be PSEUDO-SCIENCE and the Piltdown Hoax was a good example.

"In 1912, a British amateur archeologist named Charles Dawson wrote to London's Natural History Museum claiming to have discovered the missing evolutionary link between apes and humans in a fossil he had dug up in Piltdown, Sussex. This was the beginning of the Piltdown Man hoax, one of the most successful and consequential hoaxes in scientific history. Dawson's Piltdown Man was conclusively established as a hoax in 1953, after decades of leading scientists down the wrong path of evolutionary study."
https://www.livescience.com/56327-piltdown-man-hoax.html

Darwinianism was a blatant attempt to EXCLUDE God from His creation. And now the atheistic National Geographic never fails to keep pushing the idea of evolution at every opportunity. More PROPAGANDA.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,660
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#46
The better question might be...does science support creation? The error of science isn't that it can't support the truth of the Bible but that it purposefully seeks to deny it. And to do so, it has to contradict in many cases its own previous conclusions.
science looks at what God created and tries to figure out how it could have come to exist without a creator , just a cosmic accident hundreds of billions of years ago lol theses thirty five year old scientists tell us.

science claims mankind is a random mutation life itself just accidental and mutation of billions of years

the problem is they are trying to prove how everything is without God creating it
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,075
6,883
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#47
science looks at what God created and tries to figure out how it could have come to exist without a creator , just a cosmic accident hundreds of billions of years ago lol theses thirty five year old scientists tell us.

science claims mankind is a random mutation life itself just accidental and mutation of billions of years

the problem is they are trying to prove how everything is without God creating it
I have a quote I want to share with you later I think you will enjoy. I just have to remember where it is.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,660
5,908
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#48
I have a quote I want to share with you later I think you will enjoy. I just have to remember where it is.
brother do you have a Bible app ? Try “youBible “ it really helps finding things you remember from scriptire but can’t recall the verse number or chapter

there’s a search bar where you just type in keywords and it brings up th verses your recalling , the best study tool I’ve ever come in constancy with

allows for topical study that spans the entire Bible so you can follow the themes from genesis to revelation
 
Mar 6, 2023
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#49
It might be good to take a step back, and rethink both terms and issues.


Scripture, Nature, & Science:
1.) God created both nature and scripture.
2.) So, inasmuch as we have a right understanding of both nature and scripture, they will correlate.
3.) To whatever degree we have a wrong understanding of either, then they will fail to correlate to that degree.
4.) Science is merely mankind's "study" of the natural world... so scientific observations and conclusions, because they are the work of man, have the ability to be either accurate or inaccurate.
5.) Although scripture is divine, the interpretation of scripture by men is not... so interpretations may also be either accurate or inaccurate.
6.) We have logical principles for interpreting nature, which are sometimes ignored in science - and we have logical principles for interpreting scripture, which are sometimes ignored in exegesis.
7.) Both nature and scripture are divinely created: they will always agree, and show the fingerprint of God, whenever they are both understood accurately.
8.) Since mankind is fallen, and is imperfect in both moral character and intellect, we should expect to encounter some misunderstandings of both nature and scripture. (The trick, of course, is to discern which is which.)

These are the realities that constrain us.


Atheist/Materialist View:
1. Christians don't believe in science.
2. Science and Religion are, and must be, at odds. They are antithetical... they cannot both exist.
3. Since there is no God, then science is the default measure of all truth... religion is merely wishful thinking.


Christian View:
1. Christians DO believe in science - but they believe scientists are capable of error.
2. Since God created both Nature and Scripture, they are, and must be, in perfect harmony.
3. Science and Scripture are NOT at odds, and CANNOT be at odds, unless one of them is interpreted incorrectly.
4. All discrepancies between Science and Religion are merely a result of poor interpretation: either nature or scripture has been understood incorrectly.
5. In order to harmonize "proper science" and "proper theology", we should recognize that both require some study... and it's possible that we, as mere humans, will make a few mistakes along the way.
6. CERTAINTY:
Finally, just because humans and prone to error, does not mean we cannot have confidence in things which are extremely clear. Some things in both scripture and nature are just very very clear.... there are many things of which we can be certain. In both scripture and science, it is safe to start with the certain things, and then work outward.


Sometimes when issues are in great conflict, if we simply clarify terms and positions... everything becomes easier.

.

.
Well said. Here is an article that you might like. https://www.icr.org/article/sun-finely-tuned/
Let me know what you think of it.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,075
6,883
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#50
brother do you have a Bible app ? Try “youBible “ it really helps finding things you remember from scriptire but can’t recall the verse number or chapter

there’s a search bar where you just type in keywords and it brings up th verses your recalling , the best study tool I’ve ever come in constancy with

allows for topical study that spans the entire Bible so you can follow the themes from genesis to revelation
The quote isn't from scripture.
 
Mar 6, 2023
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27
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#51
I have a whole library to search from and have several Bible apps, including Hebrew and Greek interlinear bibles.
 
Mar 6, 2023
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#52
That was about as lame an excuse that anyone could invent. Evolution turned out to be PSEUDO-SCIENCE and the Piltdown Hoax was a good example.

"In 1912, a British amateur archeologist named Charles Dawson wrote to London's Natural History Museum claiming to have discovered the missing evolutionary link between apes and humans in a fossil he had dug up in Piltdown, Sussex. This was the beginning of the Piltdown Man hoax, one of the most successful and consequential hoaxes in scientific history. Dawson's Piltdown Man was conclusively established as a hoax in 1953, after decades of leading scientists down the wrong path of evolutionary study."
https://www.livescience.com/56327-piltdown-man-hoax.html

Darwinianism was a blatant attempt to EXCLUDE God from His creation. And now the atheistic National Geographic never fails to keep pushing the idea of evolution at every opportunity. More PROPAGANDA.
Darwin himself admitted that the Cambrian Explosion of life cannot be explained, but he Bible tells us exactly what happened... "God Spoke."
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,660
5,908
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#54
Darwin himself admitted that the Cambrian Explosion of life cannot be explained, but he Bible tells us exactly what happened... "God Spoke."
Amen

“Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:3‬ ‭

when God speaks and man looks at it later he’s so awesome that we say “ wow that had to have taken billions of years to form by itself by accident “

about in reality he speaks a word and worlds stand up he speaks again and they fall he speaks and the galaxies shine and solor systems spin

He speaks and a dead man is raised up another thing science would tell us isn’t true he speaks and kingdoms rise up and he whispers and crumble to ash we can look at what he’s done and try to measure how long it took but without faith we’ll never understand Gods word is the source of man’s existence and true knowledge
 

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2023
1,936
1,133
113
#55
Amen

“Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:3‬ ‭

when God speaks and man looks at it later he’s so awesome that we say “ wow that had to have taken billions of years to form by itself by accident “

about in reality he speaks a word and worlds stand up he speaks again and they fall he speaks and the galaxies shine and solor systems spin

He speaks and a dead man is raised up another thing science would tell us isn’t true he speaks and kingdoms rise up and he whispers and crumble to ash we can look at what he’s done and try to measure how long it took but without faith we’ll never understand Gods word is the source of man’s existence and true knowledge
Wow, that just gave me a thought. When all those unbelieving scientists are being judged, they're going to be SO EMBARRASSED because they studied God's creation and how it worked, and they STILL didn't see Him in them when He's left so much evidence of His hand on everything!

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine naturehave been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

This makes me think of this song....

Chris Tomlin - Indescribable (Lyrics And Chords)

You are amazing God!
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,660
5,908
113
#56
Wow, that just gave me a thought. When all those unbelieving scientists are being judged, they're going to be SO EMBARRASSED because they studied God's creation and how it worked, and they STILL didn't see Him in them when He's left so much evidence of His hand on everything!

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine naturehave been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

This makes me think of this song....

Chris Tomlin - Indescribable (Lyrics And Chords)

You are amazing God!
amen the wisdom of the world isnt the way for us who don’t belong to it . The wisdom of God is for us who belong to him
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
1,948
113
#57
Gen 1: 1 is a broad statement, Not very detailed. But just states a broad fact

in the begining (arche, before time)

God (they)

created the heavens (all in the universe) and the earth (the planet we live on)
 

IsaiahA

Active member
Jan 24, 2023
114
68
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#58
You will discover true Science always verifies the Word of God because the Word of God is the Inspired Truth.

Jesus said God made Male and Female and the union of both create Life.

Homosexuals claim Science proves they are genetically designed and created naturally.

But let's take a very quick look at Evolution.

Let's get to the heart of the matter and begin with NATURAL SELECTION:

NATURAL SELECTION is picking and choosing random genetitics and traits to continue the evolving Species. That means NATURAL SELECTION would kill any homosexual genetics because those genetitics produce the Species that cannot keep the Tree of Life ALIVE.

So NATURAL SELECTION would destroy any genetitics that desired same sex and would not help to continue the Species chances for survival by continuing to produce life.

Truly, Evolution is another tool that shows us God's Word is Truth and for a Species to survive means it requires Male and Female attracted to one another.
You wrote: "Homosexuals claim Science proves they are genetically designed and created naturally." I've never heard or read that, though I don't guess I read literature by homosexuals. I've never heard or read that sort of thing from any reputable source. Where did you find that? What is the source of that idea?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#59
well Maybe you and I should make a “ random quote app “ to quickly find it lol
Here's the quote by George Weisal(not sure of the spelling)...

"Present American society is stuck because it views humanity as a cosmic chemical accident existing with no intentional origin, no noble destiny, and, so, with no path through history. "
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,660
5,908
113
#60
Here's the quote by George Weisal(not sure of the spelling)...

"Present American society is stuck because it views humanity as a cosmic chemical accident existing with no intentional origin, no noble destiny, and, so, with no path through history. "
amen I agree good quote for sure !

The meaning of life is found in Jesus Christ and the truth of the everlasting God. But the world is filled with lies seeking to blind us to truth evolution is one of those

they will negate faith and then demand you have faith in what they are saying happened billions of years ago, I think mankind has an issue with acknowledging our limitations currently