Salvation is for the Whole World

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rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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By grace are ye saved, that's what the Book says.
Yup, and because we are saved solely by that grace, then nothing can interfere with that salvation, including ourselves, correct?
Otherwise, it wouldn't be by grace.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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I don't believe there are contradictions either.
Once Christ came in the flesh, while with them in human form, He was that same Holy Spirit; that is, the Holy Spirit was manifested in the form of Christ so to speak. It was not until after Christ's sacrifice had completed that He sent the Holy Spirit to spiritually indwell the elect at their becoming born-again.
The verses I quoted to you came from the Bible, not from me. What do you think they mean when they say that Christ (God), would send the Comforter unto them? Please observe that in verse 14:16, Christ said He would send ANOTHER COMFORTER to them, meaning that, in being God, and in addition to being the Christ, He at that same time was also the Comforter. Also please observe that in verses 14:26, 15:26 and 16:7, we are informed that He "WILL SEND" (future tense), which, because He remained to be sent in spiritual form, that Christ at that time already was the Holy Spirit with them. Also, please observe that in 14:18 Christ again tells us that He is the Comforter because He said that "I will come to you".

[Jhn 14:16,18, 26 KJV]
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; ...
26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
[Jhn 15:26 KJV]
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
[Jhn 16:7 KJV]
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

In order, not to exclude Isaiah 63:11, I believe that all of the old testament saints were born again, in the same manner that we are, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

The scriptures teach that there is a three in one Godhead, with different functions of God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit .

I also believe the scriptures to teach that the Holy Spirit has different functions, a quickening Spirit, a revolater, and a comforter.

We also are taught that God exchanges a person's heart in the new birth, from a heart of stone, to a heart of flesh that can be pricked to feel spiritual guilt.
 

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
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@ThereRoseaLamb be careful hating on the gospel of grace made popular by the reformers, claiming that’s not the God you serve etc. It’s one thing not to understand it but another thing to hate it. 😬
 

ThereRoseaLamb

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Jan 17, 2023
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@ThereRoseaLamb be careful hating on the gospel of grace made popular by the reformers, claiming that’s not the God you serve etc. It’s one thing not to understand it but another thing to hate it. 😬
Where would you get that idea when I just stated we are saved by grace?

Can you answer me this, why would Jesus and His disciples preach repentance to people if they are unable to respond?

Matt 21 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him

The sinners believed... how is that possible?!

Is. 30 - This is what the Sovereign LORD, the Holy One of Israel, says: “In repentance and rest is your salvation, in quietness and trust is your strength, but you would have none of it.

How can God expect repentance from people who cannot respond? It sure seems like a choice here. You would have none of it.

Rom. 2- Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

God wants them to be saved, to repent. But according to Calvin, that isn't possible.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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In order, not to exclude Isaiah 63:11, I believe that all of the old testament saints were born again, in the same manner that we are, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

The scriptures teach that there is a three in one Godhead, with different functions of God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit .

I also believe the scriptures to teach that the Holy Spirit has different functions, a quickening Spirit, a revolater, and a comforter.

We also are taught that God exchanges a person's heart in the new birth, from a heart of stone, to a heart of flesh that can be pricked to feel spiritual guilt.
I think I agree except for the quickening Spirit part. My point (in replying to your question), was that God, as the Holy Spirit, is not the Saviour, and hence, His indwelling does not bring salvation but the fruit of the Spirit. God, as the Christ, does. I did not find mention in the Bible of the Holy Spirt as the quickening spirit. I could only find reference to Christ as such.
The change of heart you mentioned is, I believe, from the fruit of the Spirit from becoming born-again.

[1Co 15:45 KJV] 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.
 

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
995
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Where would you get that idea when I just stated we are saved by grace?

Can you answer me this, why would Jesus and His disciples preach repentance to people if they are unable to respond?

Matt 21 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him

The sinners believed... how is that possible?!

Is. 30 - This is what the Sovereign LORD, the Holy One of Israel, says: “In repentance and rest is your salvation, in quietness and trust is your strength, but you would have none of it.

How can God expect repentance from people who cannot respond? It sure seems like a choice here. You would have none of it.

Rom. 2- Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

God wants them to be saved, to repent. But according to Calvin, that isn't possible.
My point exactly 🤦‍♂️

God wouldn’t command man something he isn’t able to do…
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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And from our Bible examples we have unsaved natural men having dreams that are interpreted by the likes of Joseph and Daniel

Can you prove, by scripture, that the people whom God has contacted through their dreams, are unsaved?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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I think I agree except for the quickening Spirit part. My point (in replying to your question), was that God, as the Holy Spirit, is not the Saviour, and hence, His indwelling does not bring salvation but the fruit of the Spirit. God, as the Christ, does. I did not find mention in the Bible of the Holy Spirt as the quickening spirit. I could only find reference to Christ as such.
The change of heart you mentioned is, I believe, from the fruit of the Spirit from becoming born-again.

[1Co 15:45 KJV] 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

I stand corrected on the Holy Spirit being the one who quickens, but any person who has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, is evidence that he has been quickened to a new spiritual life.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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My point exactly 🤦‍♂️

God wouldn’t command man something he isn’t able to do…
And yet... Peter said the yoke of the law was something nobody could bear.

In other words, if man could keep the commandments, what need for Jesus?

Jesus is the only One Who kept the law pefectly, being completely sinless.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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Just keep in mind the Arminian/Pelagian gospel is in alignment with Islam, JW’s, Mormonism, Hinduism, Luciferianism etc. they all claim man has some level of ability, of his own will and power, to be right with “God/Gods”.

The gospel of grace made popular by the reformers is the only one that claims salvation is entirely of the Lord.
How slippery of you. Actually, Islam asserts that no one can know they are saved, not even Mohammed can know, since it's all up to Allah.
 

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
995
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Scripture clearly teaches God’s requirements and man’s inability to adhere, thus Christ.

Yet the Arminian/Pelagian will claim, since God commanded it man must be able. It’s backwards, anti biblical reasoning
 

Sipsey

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Sep 27, 2018
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Scripture clearly teaches God’s requirements and man’s inability to adhere, thus Christ.

Yet the Arminian/Pelagian will claim, since God commanded it man must be able. It’s backwards, anti biblical reasoning
So, how were those that lived prior to the advent of Jesus saved?
 

ThereRoseaLamb

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Jan 17, 2023
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Scripture clearly teaches God’s requirements and man’s inability to adhere, thus Christ.

Yet the Arminian/Pelagian will claim, since God commanded it man must be able. It’s backwards, anti biblical reasoning

You're not unable to adhere. Otherwise God would not tell you to repent and turn from your sin.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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So, how were those that lived prior to the advent of Jesus saved?
Christ was foreordained Saviour before the foundation of the world.

1 Peter 1:19 - 21

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
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Where would you get that idea when I just stated we are saved by grace?

Can you answer me this, why would Jesus and His disciples preach repentance to people if they are unable to respond?

Matt 21 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him

The sinners believed... how is that possible?!

Is. 30 - This is what the Sovereign LORD, the Holy One of Israel, says: “In repentance and rest is your salvation, in quietness and trust is your strength, but you would have none of it.

How can God expect repentance from people who cannot respond? It sure seems like a choice here. You would have none of it.

Rom. 2- Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

God wants them to be saved, to repent. But according to Calvin, that isn't possible.

Are you familiar with the scriptures dealing with the "lost sheep of the house of Israel"? This is the larger part of God's elect that believe in God, and have the promise of an eternal inheritance, but do not have a knowledge of the gospel of Jesus Christ These are the ones, that the scriptures you have quoted, have reference to.

There is a remnant of the household of Israel that do have the knowledge of the gospel (Zeph 3:12-13).
 
Jun 20, 2022
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Can you prove, by scripture, that the people whom God has contacted through their dreams, are unsaved?
Pharaoh and his dreams were interpreted by Joseph

King of Babylon and Daniel + could add Darius later for other factors.

I doubt Pharaoh and Nebuchadnezzer were true followers of Yahweh.

The Prince of Persia sure wasn't a follower of the too soon and Coming Christ.

But that delivered message from God to the unsaved happened enough times even a couple were specifically mentioned by God for us to read Now and understand it.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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You're not unable to adhere. Otherwise God would not tell you to repent and turn from your sin.

The natural man (1 Cor 2:14), will not repent of breaking one of God's spiritual laws, that he cannot discern, and thinks them to be foolishness. Only those who have been reborn spiritually will hear and repent
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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Pharaoh and his dreams were interpreted by Joseph

King of Babylon and Daniel + could add Darius later for other factors.

I doubt Pharaoh and Nebuchadnezzer were true followers of Yahweh.

The Prince of Persia sure wasn't a follower of the too soon and Coming Christ.

But that delivered message from God to the unsaved happened enough times even a couple were specifically mentioned by God for us to read Now and understand it.

It would have helped, if you had given me the book, chapter, and verse, but I am pretty sure that Nebuchadnezzar was a follower of God, by the statement he made in Dan 4:35. And all the inhabitants of earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth, and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

This verse, also, refutes the idea that mankind can resist his will.