Why Moses and Elijah were at the transfiguration.

[cv5]

@posthuman

In Rev 11:8 you have represented by "And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city" This verse represents the political "bodies" of the two witnesses as lying dead and unburied for all to see.

I’ll resist going into the actual event this is speaking to (for now) as you may hold that false, futurist interpretation of the Apocalypse, however I can say this with total confidence, the 2 witnesses are not 2 literal people, but rather symbolic of a group of peoples who were persecuted for their beliefs.

In no way can Moses & Elijah fit that record.

Evidently, CNN will still be a functioning entity during the 70th week....

Rev 11:9
And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
Rev 11:10
And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

 

[F2F]

Evidently, CNN will still be a functioning entity during the 70th week....

Rev 11:9
And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
Rev 11:10
And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

And you believe this is speaking of Moses & Elijah?
What does the earth represent in verse 10?
So you have Moses and Elijah being killed literally and having their dead bodies left lying in the street?

Have you really thought this through?

 

[cv5]

They were there to encourage the Lord to go through with taking captivity captive..."the Exodus" was the cup of suffering he had to drink and Moses & Elijahs past and future works all relied on Christ going to the cross.

Encouraging the disciples was the primary reason for this event IMO. That and certain future prophetic implications.

2Pe 1:16
For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2Pe 1:17
For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
2Pe 1:18
And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

 

[cv5]

And you believe this is speaking of Moses & Elijah?
What does the earth represent in verse 10?
Have you really thought this through?

Yes.
The globe. The planet. Terra firma.
Thousands of times.

BTW.....key phrase "dwell upon the earth", the unfortunate earth dwellers. Those who remain after the rapture to suffer the wrath of God.

 

[Scribe]

The ONLY reason that I can figure out as to how Peter recognized Elijah and Moses was by the staffs that they carried with them.
Pictures of people were forbidden in Israel. Roman culture allowed it....but in Jewish culture the only thing you could make pictures of were animals and plants....not people. Which is one reason why we really don't know what these people looked like.
We can guess....but Moses' staff would have the winged seraphim (snakes) and I am not sure about Elijah's staff. But Peter would know what it looked like.

Peter heard them discussing Jesus death and departure at Jerusalem
This conversation probably contained enough details for Peter to draw conclusions such as he probably heard Jesus refer to each of them by name once or more during their conversation.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Furthermore, the 70th week of Daniel is prophetically Israelitish in nature, purpose and content. So you would certainly expect Israelite witnesses.

Correct. While John the Baptist came in "the spirit and power of Elijah" (but denied that he was Elijah incarnate) the real Elijah must come before the Great Tribulation (the day of the LORD).

And Moses is connected to Elijah in Malachi 4:4-6: Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments. Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

The two witnesses (prophets, lampstands) in Revelation 11 seem to be located in Jerusalem for 3 1/2 years (42 months, 1260 days, time, times, and half a time) and are then killed, resurrected, and raptured. There no doubt that many unbelieving Jews will be saved at that time.

 

[JohnDB]

Peter heard them discussing Jesus death and departure at Jerusalem
This conversation probably contained enough details for Peter to draw conclusions such as he probably heard Jesus refer to each of them by name once or more during their conversation.

Maybe....
But the names would be copied by mothers....lots of people named Moses or Elijah in Israel.

But the Staffs would be unique and identifying.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

What can Moses and Elijah testify of that no one else had witnessed?

You should just finish your thoughts here ^

 

[cv5]

And you believe this is speaking of Moses & Elijah?

See....your problem is that you cannot refute/evade the fact of precisely two individuals by the exact
name of Moses and Elijah having been convened at the transfiguration.

The fact of which is entirely significant given the circumstances and pending prophetic fulfillment.

 

[cv5]

There no doubt that many unbelieving Jews will be saved at that time.

Thats the whole point yep.

 

[F2F]

Encouraging the disciples was the primary reason for this event IMO. That and certain future prophetic implications.

2Pe 1:16
For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2Pe 1:17
For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
2Pe 1:18
And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

Have a look a look at the record and see why Christ needed the encouragement. If you want evidence let me know.
F2F

 

[cv5]

Have a look a look at the record and see why Christ needed the encouragement.
F2F

True. But again the primary reason was for the sake of the disciples.

 

[F2F]

See....your problem is that you cannot refute/evade the fact of precisely two individuals by the exact
name of Moses and Elijah having been convened at the transfiguration.

The fact of which is entirely significant given the circumstances and pending prophetic fulfillment.

I assume you mean Rev 11 yeah?
O I see what you are saying - 2 people referenced at the transfiguration and 2 witnesses in Rev 11 must mean they are one and the same 2 people.
And that's your exegesis?
It's as foolish as saying three angels came to Abraham and Sarah and therefore this must be God, Jesus and the HS (laughable!)
Sorry but the Word of God is far deeper than your simple mathematical formula.
F2F

 

[F2F]

True. But again the primary reason was for the sake of the disciples.

I'll open the door for you...see if you walk in?

Jesus and his disciples went on to the villages around Caesarea Philippi. On the way he asked them, “Who do people say I am?”

Why did Jesus need encouragement from Moses & Elijah?

 

[Cameron143]

I assume you mean Rev 11 yeah?
O I see what you are saying - 2 people referenced at the transfiguration and 2 witnesses in Rev 11 must mean they are one and the same 2 people.
And that's your exegesis?
It's as foolish as saying three angels came to Abraham and Sarah and therefore this must be God, Jesus and the HS (laughable!)
Sorry but the Word of God is far deeper than your simple mathematical formula.
F2F

I like math...how about this one...

1 cross
+ 3 nails
= 4given

 

[JohnDB]

I'll open the door for you...see if you walk in?

Jesus and his disciples went on to the villages around Caesarea Philippi. On the way he asked them, “Who do people say I am?”

Why did Jesus need encouragement from Moses & Elijah?

It wasn't a discussion for encouragement.

Both of these men were "taken" by God. They gave their "all" for the cause of Christ. They just wanted to see Jesus during his earthly ministry tour. That's all....who wouldn't?

 

[cv5]

I'll open the door for you...see if you walk in?

Jesus and his disciples went on to the villages around Caesarea Philippi. On the way he asked them, “Who do people say I am?”

Why did Jesus need encouragement from Moses & Elijah?

To the historisist I would say: If something means anything then everything means nothing.

 

[Cameron143]

I don't think the transfiguration was about encouragement. Moses and Elijah represented the law and the prophets. Jesus is shown to be be greater than both and the fulfillment of both.
The Apostles are going to be the the pillars of the early church. They need to understand a new and better covenant is coming and how the law and the prophets comport to this. Otherwise, just like putting new wine into old wineskins. They will keep bursting.

 

[F2F]

It wasn't a discussion for encouragement.

Both of these men were "taken" by God. They gave their "all" for the cause of Christ. They just wanted to see Jesus during his earthly ministry tour. That's all....who wouldn't?

Clearly the clues are being lost on you.

Jesus asked the question because he knew his ministry was not being received nor did the people understand Who he was. The Lord was in a deep low and being not far from the cross he needed encouragement.

The Lord had “shewed” the disciples His sufferings in Mat 16:21. He is now strengthened by “the joy set before Him” Heb. 12:1-3, Luke 9:51

Who helped in this strengthening?

In the Mount it was Moses & Elijah and in the Garden the Angel of the Lord.

A lot more there for you to discover is you look.

I will follow up with a few notes for you to consider.

God bless you reading!

F2F

 

[Mem]

I like math...how about this one...

1 cross
+ 3 nails
= 4given

Thank you! I love when everything adds up so rationally. And I also like to fill in the empty spaces in the o's and 4's while I'm waiting for the instructor to get to the point.