Hell, Sheol, Hades...
- Thread starter GRACE_ambassador
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Yes IF perish = eternal life. I've been asking the Hellfire tormentors to substantiate their interpretations of Scripture with sound exegesis and with reference to the original meaning of certain words and in the context that much of Revelation is written in symbolic language - and they have failed to do so. What they have done is to demonstrate their anger because I refuse to be bullied into submission accepting their notion that it justice to torment people for eternity....in the context that God revealed to Jeremiah that it did not even enter His mind to burn people alive for even a very few minutes. But no, they cannot see the point because, pardon the pun, they are Hell bent on exacting revenge on whosoever doesn't agree with them.
-
1
- Show all
Thank you. This time your link ...linked. I viewed the fast show.
You posted the link - stating the obvious - because you agree with the presenter. But he simply rattled off a series of Scriptures without any exposition as to why they should be taken literally other than saying, in effect, that because that's what Jesus believes therefore he believes.
Now, if that is what Jesus intended then I too would believe that to be the case. But you need to keep in mind that Jesus when teaching His disciples did so in parables and the reason He did so was they would (learn) to understand whereas His enemies would not do so.
The mistake that you and the speaker make is this. You have the view that the Watchtower organisation teaches false doctrines. I agree with you. The major doctrine they get wrong is they do not recognize the deity of Jesus Christ. I think we are in agreement on this point that the JW's are most definitely wrong.
However, you make the Olympic Gold Medal Jump to the Wrong Conclusion in thinking One thing wrong - therefore everything wrong.
IF you apply that same principle to whichever church you align with I will dare to say that they have some things right and some things wrong....even if those things are lesser things in that they are not salvation issues.
And when it comes to this issue of literal eternal torment in a real literal Lake of Fire - or Annihilation this isn't a salvation issue.
But it is an issue nonetheless. And the issue is that of the character of God.
God takes no delight in the death of the wicked.
But you and those on your side of the argument come across as having a certain amount of glee at the thought that opponents of Christ will burn forever. I suggest you - and those who share that macabre view - would want to do some serious introspection.
You posted the link - stating the obvious - because you agree with the presenter. But he simply rattled off a series of Scriptures without any exposition as to why they should be taken literally other than saying, in effect, that because that's what Jesus believes therefore he believes.
Now, if that is what Jesus intended then I too would believe that to be the case. But you need to keep in mind that Jesus when teaching His disciples did so in parables and the reason He did so was they would (learn) to understand whereas His enemies would not do so.
The mistake that you and the speaker make is this. You have the view that the Watchtower organisation teaches false doctrines. I agree with you. The major doctrine they get wrong is they do not recognize the deity of Jesus Christ. I think we are in agreement on this point that the JW's are most definitely wrong.
However, you make the Olympic Gold Medal Jump to the Wrong Conclusion in thinking One thing wrong - therefore everything wrong.
IF you apply that same principle to whichever church you align with I will dare to say that they have some things right and some things wrong....even if those things are lesser things in that they are not salvation issues.
And when it comes to this issue of literal eternal torment in a real literal Lake of Fire - or Annihilation this isn't a salvation issue.
But it is an issue nonetheless. And the issue is that of the character of God.
God takes no delight in the death of the wicked.
But you and those on your side of the argument come across as having a certain amount of glee at the thought that opponents of Christ will burn forever. I suggest you - and those who share that macabre view - would want to do some serious introspection.
IF you take the trouble to actually read what I say and NOT what you think I've said you'd have read and understood that I've admitted I may well be wrong on this issue. And I've challenged you and others to substantiate your view by drilling down into the original meaning of the words Hell, Hades, Sheol and Gehenna and to take into consideration that much of Revelation is written in symbolic language.
In case you don't understand what is meant by symbolic language here's a definition: The gospels record that Jesus used symbolic language in talking about himself and his relationship to others; some examples of this refer to Jesus as the Living Water, the Bread of Life, the Light of the World, the Good Shepherd, and the Door. The gospels also record that Jesus used symbolism when he spoke in parables.
And another example: Jesus is the Lamb of God. Now IF certain persons who insist on taking every word literally, as at least one person in this does, are to be consistent they would have to say that Jesus is literally a sheep....which is preposterous!
And even that one certain person must see that because he, with no sense of irony whatsoever, accused me of being blasphemous.
Is any of this getting through to you?
In case you don't understand what is meant by symbolic language here's a definition: The gospels record that Jesus used symbolic language in talking about himself and his relationship to others; some examples of this refer to Jesus as the Living Water, the Bread of Life, the Light of the World, the Good Shepherd, and the Door. The gospels also record that Jesus used symbolism when he spoke in parables.
And another example: Jesus is the Lamb of God. Now IF certain persons who insist on taking every word literally, as at least one person in this does, are to be consistent they would have to say that Jesus is literally a sheep....which is preposterous!
And even that one certain person must see that because he, with no sense of irony whatsoever, accused me of being blasphemous.
Is any of this getting through to you?
Right.
Not to mention this verse (using that phrase), "...God that liveth unto the ages of the ages" - Revelation 15:7
-- https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/rev/15/7/p0/t_concif_1182007
As I said in an earlier post, this always seems to be the phrase they LEAVE OUT of their studies, when they present their materials [supposedly] showing what the word "aion" [and any related word] means.
One could ask, WHY?
Thank YOU for commenting.
Much appreciated, SomeDisciple. = )
Not to mention this verse (using that phrase), "...God that liveth unto the ages of the ages" - Revelation 15:7
-- https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/rev/15/7/p0/t_concif_1182007
As I said in an earlier post, this always seems to be the phrase they LEAVE OUT of their studies, when they present their materials [supposedly] showing what the word "aion" [and any related word] means.
One could ask, WHY?
Thank YOU for commenting.
Much appreciated, SomeDisciple. = )
-
1
- Show all
If God is the creator of Hell as a place the causes suffering for eternity, i start to dislike the character of this God. If God lets people that sinned for a time continually suffer for eternity then that god is not Just. The God i serve is just.
If the person in hell comes to a point were they realize their mistakes and repent, will they continue to burn?
The God that i serve will destroy sin and destroy the sinner. He will cleanse the universe of sin and death. He wont cause sin and death to be externalized.
"Forever destroyed" = to be destroyed forever not to be continually destroying.
Does God have pleasure in destroying things and in destroying the people He died to save? No.
He will destroy sin and that is it.
Research the TRADITION of eternal hell fire, and you'll find it was invented by man in the dark ages.
If the person in hell comes to a point were they realize their mistakes and repent, will they continue to burn?
The God that i serve will destroy sin and destroy the sinner. He will cleanse the universe of sin and death. He wont cause sin and death to be externalized.
"Forever destroyed" = to be destroyed forever not to be continually destroying.
Does God have pleasure in destroying things and in destroying the people He died to save? No.
He will destroy sin and that is it.
Research the TRADITION of eternal hell fire, and you'll find it was invented by man in the dark ages.
-
1
- Show all
Bear in mind that "hell [/hades]" is what PRECEDES the lake of fire (and is ITSELF "cast into the LOF" at the GWTj point in time).
"Hell [/hades]" is merely the first phase (so to speak) of the judgment [at the time of DEATH of the unbelievers/unsaved] (which judgment is never "reversed"... it leads only TO the later "LOF" @GWTj, and THAT [the LOF] is said to be "unto the ages [plural] of the ages [plural]"... as explained in my previous posts... for example: Post #176 - https://christianchat.com/threads/hell-sheol-hades.206073/post-5024826 ).
"Hell [/hades]" is merely the first phase (so to speak) of the judgment [at the time of DEATH of the unbelievers/unsaved] (which judgment is never "reversed"... it leads only TO the later "LOF" @GWTj, and THAT [the LOF] is said to be "unto the ages [plural] of the ages [plural]"... as explained in my previous posts... for example: Post #176 - https://christianchat.com/threads/hell-sheol-hades.206073/post-5024826 ).
Like I said in post 459, it's not for "sinning for a time"; refusing to have your sins washed away leaves you a sinner forever.
And also, like I said, It's this kind of thinking that really is alarming. Do you really think you are a better judge than God? He can literally see and know everything that you and everyone else thinks and does and would ever think and do in any given scenario... can you do that? Do you know anyone's else's heart enough to say what they deserve?
Have you been to the lake of fire? What is it like? You must know- because you say that people don't deserve it. What or who does the tormenting in the lake of fire? Personally, I think the people there torment themselves- it's just a theory: but, can you confirm it?
And also, like I said, It's this kind of thinking that really is alarming. Do you really think you are a better judge than God? He can literally see and know everything that you and everyone else thinks and does and would ever think and do in any given scenario... can you do that? Do you know anyone's else's heart enough to say what they deserve?
Have you been to the lake of fire? What is it like? You must know- because you say that people don't deserve it. What or who does the tormenting in the lake of fire? Personally, I think the people there torment themselves- it's just a theory: but, can you confirm it?
-
1
- Show all