Hell, Sheol, Hades...

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HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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Certainly, it was revealed as fire because the reader would know what a fire does to living things: destroys them. Unless you've met a living thing that could be baked in fire and live???

The issue is that God will never be the wicked and demonic beings tormented in the fire in the age to come.

God will be all in all. Nothing evil will be carried over into the new heaven and earth.

Eternal Conscious Torment was promoted to fill Baptist pews: Despicable teaching that is bereft of any understanding of the nature of the Father.

Well I certainly understand the moral, philosophical problems of eternal conscious torment, we still have to deal honestly with

the text and the concept of "annihilation" as in "ceasing to exist" "de-creating" is not supported by the Greek language.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
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Well I certainly understand the moral, philosophical problems of eternal conscious torment, we still have to deal honestly with

the text and the concept of "annihilation" as in "ceasing to exist" "de-creating" is not supported by the Greek language.
God being “all in all” is difficult to understand?
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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Nor is it any kind of refining fire as has been earlier implied by the citing of its inability to destroy gold. This fire is capable of destroying death and the grave. Maybe I'll speed things up and try doing that with a campfire. lol.

That is very interesting, because we read in Rev 14:10 how the beast is tormented with fire, and there we go 'tormented" βασανισθήσεται

is the same word used to test gold to see how pure it was.... hmm, this is why I enjoy the Greek so much more than plain old English.

And here is another interesting thing Rev.14.10 says that the fire is in the presence of the lamb and the presence of the angels. :unsure:

In English everything means annihilate, but not so in Koine Greek.

But then of course we do have to deal with the context and the greater consistency of the book to understand the word in context, but we certainly cannot dismiss an idea out of hand without proper investigation.
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
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Oregon
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HiH: Are you born again?

John 3:3-8 means different things to different people. So even if you got a
"yes" back from HiH, it may or may not be the yes you're looking for depending
upon what you think John 3:3-8 is saying.


For example: some folks interpret the water to be ritual baptism whereas others
believe it pertains to the living water about which Jesus spoke to the woman at
the well.
_
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
6,339
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.



John 3:3-8 means different things to different people. So even if you got a
"yes" back from HiH, it may or may not be the yes you're looking for depending
upon what you think John 3:3-8 is saying.


For example: some folks interpret the water to be ritual baptism whereas others
believe it pertains to the living water about which Jesus spoke to the woman at
the well.
_

With regards to John 3:3-8 the water is the amniotic fluid and Jesus is creating an analogy between the physical birth and spiritual birth from above.

These are one time events.

In case you were wondering. :D
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,230
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That is very interesting, because we read in Rev 14:10 how the beast is tormented with fire, and there we go 'tormented" βασανισθήσεται

is the same word used to test gold to see how pure it was.... hmm, this is why I enjoy the Greek so much more than plain old English.

And here is another interesting thing Rev.14.10 says that the fire is in the presence of the lamb and the presence of the angels. :unsure:

In English everything means annihilate, but not so in Koine Greek.

But then of course we do have to deal with the context and the greater consistency of the book to understand the word in context, but we certainly cannot dismiss an idea out of hand without proper investigation.
I looked into the Greek for "tormented" and it is transliterated? as "blackstoned" which is reflective of a practice (Roman, I think) contemporary to the time of writing where judgment involved revealing a whitestone (which meant you were granted life) or a blackstone (death sentence).
 

JohnRH

Junior Member
Mar 5, 2018
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The issue is that God will never be the wicked and demonic beings tormented in the fire in the age to come.
God will be all in all.
it sounds like you're describing pantheism. God will never be the saints in heaven either.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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If it is written to know that God will be all in all then, then He must not be all in all yet. That is, God is not in sin, and He is not in the wicked, tho He is in the saints that've died in Him thus "though they die, they will never die." So when the time has come that God IS all in all, there will be no more those that (I'll use the word 'were' since they will be no more) wicked or sin, blaspheme, etc. Otherwise, He would be all in all except in that part which is conveniently excluded from 'all.' Heaven and Earth will be made 'whole,' which means, healthy, complete, in unity, missing nothing that is good (God).
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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He is in the saints that've died in Him thus "though they die, they will never die."
Contrast this to the result of dying in Adam, "you shall surely die," or more accurately, "in dying you shall die."
 

JohnRH

Junior Member
Mar 5, 2018
683
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If it is written to know that God will be all in all then, then He must not be all in all yet. That is, God is not in sin, and He is not in the wicked, tho He is in the saints that've died in Him thus "though they die, they will never die." So when the time has come that God IS all in all, there will be no more those that (I'll use the word 'were' since they will be no more) wicked or sin, blaspheme, etc. Otherwise, He would be all in all except in that part which is conveniently excluded from 'all.' Heaven and Earth will be made 'whole,' which means, healthy, complete, in unity, missing nothing that is good (God).
The devil, the beast, and the false prophet being tormented day and night for ever and ever is "whole, healthy, complete, in unity, missing nothing that is good".
They're suffering righteous indignation - it's righteous.
 
Feb 21, 2023
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Hell is real I my be 16 and your wondering how would he know but I know my mom was into summoning demons and I know this is weird but the board is real and as a boy I was terrified to talk about these things im 16 I just recently got over being scared of the dark but I still sleep with my head covered because of the things iv seen you dont want to mess with these things follow Jesus.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,230
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The devil, the beast, and the false prophet being tormented day and night for ever and ever is "whole, healthy, complete, in unity, missing nothing that is good".
They're suffering righteous indignation - it's righteous.
Yes, it is righteous that, tho they are, they are not, for they are nothing.

Hell is real I my be 16 and your wondering how would he know but I know my mom was into summoning demons and I know this is weird but the board is real and as a boy I was terrified to talk about these things im 16 I just recently got over being scared of the dark but I still sleep with my head covered because of the things iv seen you dont want to mess with these things follow Jesus.
Jesus, the Most powerful Being that Exists forever keeps watch at my beside and covers my head. The blanket does nothing, other than keep you warm.
 
Feb 21, 2023
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Yes, it is righteous that, tho they are, they are not, for they are nothing.



Jesus, the Most powerful Being that Exists forever keeps watch at my beside and covers my head. The blanket does nothing, other than keep you warm.
True
 
Oct 12, 2021
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John 3:3-8 means different things to different people. So even if you got a
"yes" back from HiH, it may or may not be the yes you're looking for depending
upon what you think John 3:3-8 is saying.


For example: some folks interpret the water to be ritual baptism whereas others
believe it pertains to the living water about which Jesus spoke to the woman at
the well.
_
I certainly agree with your observation that [Scripture] means different things to different people.

The important thing is what did Jesus mean when He used words in His communications? If words have any meaning and worth at all it's surely in that we the receivers of His words are meant to understand them as he intended and NOT what we want them to mean.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
6,339
2,465
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I certainly agree with your observation that [Scripture] means different things to different people.

The important thing is what did Jesus mean when He used words in His communications? If words have any meaning and worth at all it's surely in that we the receivers of His words are meant to understand them as he intended and NOT what we want them to mean.
Yes you should follow this advice.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
6,339
2,465
113

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,230
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I will agree that the verse the "dead know nothing" is interpreted to mean they have been annihilated.

Yet "know"implies they are sentient, if they were annihilated the verse should read "the dead are made into nothingness."
So, if the term "know" is replaced with "are sentient of"? Then would you still believe that they would know something?