Revival @ Asbury?

[Niki7]

God is the Same yesterday, today, and forever.

God tends to replicate the past in many many things what He did in the past and will do like in the future.

If you actually ever read the Holy Word of God...you would know that the Body of Christ uses Prophecies to help guide them.

These are things that not just happened in the past, but was both Prophesied for that day and time plus another future event that would take place in the AGE called Last Days.

So yes, God won't be changing for you or anyone.

We change for Him.

He never CHANGES!

If you actually ever read the Holy Word of God...you would know that the Body of Christ uses Prophecies to help guide them.

And yet you say you mean me no disrespect. I tend to agree with the old adage that advises us to believe someone, when they tell us who they are. Apparently, I inadvertently hit a trigger with you and you react with judgement and if your posts represent prophesy, perhaps reflect on actual prophets. The Old Testament would be a good place to start.

While prophecy is a true gift from God, far too many think they are a prophet or a teacher and God never called them to be either.
This is one reason there is so much error in the church.

The emphasis is on Jesus and not prophets, so why are so many confused about that and give their ears to false prophets and teachers and hang around waiting for God to do all the work and give them a 'revival'? God is not deaf but so often the reason He does not grant what so many seem to want, is because He has already told us what is needed but that requires an actual change and how many actually will apply the work to understand that God does not have to repeat Himself because we are spoiled brats and just want a quick fix?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Letting people know what your orientation was before being saved is not necessarily wrong, especially when
you are targeting a specific group in evangelism to let them know it can be overcome. Celibacy looks like
repentance to me if they are abstaining specifically because of what the Bible has to say. A repentant
heterosexual does not become something other than hetero oriented after repenting of their sexual sins.

That is all -- I am off now... have a good day! -

Oh, in terms of heterosexual sins, I might have not explained it well. Heterosexual sins of the heart and mind are about lusting after the opposite sex and thinking about doing it with them in their minds. So being celibate as a straight person is nice, but it doesn't mean that there is no sexual immorality in them, if they're still sinning in their hearts and minds about that.

Straight people can be delivered of those sins too though if they submit to God!

 

[hornetguy]

If they are celibate I hardly see that as glorifying homosexuality.

Yes.... any more than saying that allowing a sober alcoholic to attend worship is glorifying drunkenness...

 

[hornetguy]

As a matter of fact, any besetting sin can be conquered this way too, like heterosexual sins for example.

Conquered, yes..... eliminated, no.
There are several "sins" that will be with a person all his life, and what matters is, does he give in to the sin, or does he, through the help of the Spirit, resist that sin?
Alcoholics suffer from an addiction, and can successfully NOT drink, but the fact that they are an addict is ALWAYS there.
I imagine it is the same with many homosexuals. That addiction will always be there, but they can successfully NOT act on it, or dwell on it.

 

[Aaron56]

Alcoholics suffer from an addiction, and can successfully NOT drink, but the fact that they are an addict is ALWAYS there.
I imagine it is the same with many homosexuals. That addiction will always be there, but they can successfully NOT act on it, or dwell on it.

I have 23 years of experience in the behavioral health field.

I know people who used to refer to themselves as "alcoholics" (according to AA doctrine) no longer do so and are able to have a glass of alcohol without "relapsing" into addictive behavior.

I also know of several homosexuals who were healed and are now in loving relationships in Christian marriage.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Conquered, yes..... eliminated, no.
There are several "sins" that will be with a person all his life, and what matters is, does he give in to the sin, or does he, through the help of the Spirit, resist that sin?
Alcoholics suffer from an addiction, and can successfully NOT drink, but the fact that they are an addict is ALWAYS there.
I imagine it is the same with many homosexuals. That addiction will always be there, but they can successfully NOT act on it, or dwell on it.

While a person may struggle with a sin, I do not believe a person is always an addict. I believe God can and will save to the uttermost, I believe he can break any bondage. But not everyone will reach that level, some just cannot seem to let go. But I do not believe a person is always an addict.

 

[IsaiahA]

Yeah, those dummies. smh Where did sodomy first become a word? Sodom was where? What happened there? Let's not play dances with words here. Sodomy is another Biblical word for homosexuality. You can read it right there in the Bible.

Really?? Give me the English translation and the book, chapter & verse where you find the word "sodomy'. Show me a dictionary or thesaurus that show "homosexuality" and "sodomy" as synonyms. Also, explain why various translations cannot decide where to use the word "sodomite" as a translation. For your information, if you check the etymology of the word, you'll find the church invented the word around 1200-1300 AD.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Conquered, yes..... eliminated, no.
There are several "sins" that will be with a person all his life, and what matters is, does he give in to the sin, or does he, through the help of the Spirit, resist that sin?
Alcoholics suffer from an addiction, and can successfully NOT drink, but the fact that they are an addict is ALWAYS there.
I imagine it is the same with many homosexuals. That addiction will always be there, but they can successfully NOT act on it, or dwell on it.

I see what you mean. I started smoking when I was 13 and then got saved when I was 17 but I didn't stop smoking. When I was 22, I wanted to stop because it was too expensive - that really was the only reason why I wanted to stop. I didn't know whether God wanted me to stop or not. I also didn't stop for my health although I can really feel my lungs clogging up.

God did help me to stop smoking successfully (thank you Lord!) because I asked for help and He was willing. But I agree that the addiction can stay with you for many years. Even though I completely stopped smoking and never lit up again ever, in the past, if I was going through a particularly stressful time, I would actually DREAM about smoking!!! And then in the dream I would feel SO BAD that I started smoking again! I'd wake up in the morning thinking, "Oh my gosh, I'm imprisoned to it again!" for a few seconds - that's how strong the dream's impact was. But then I'd become more fully awake and then realize, "Oh wait a minute! I didn't actually smoke! That was just a dream!"

It took maybe two decades before I stopped dreaming about the occasional smoke. So I believe that I'm delivered from it and am no longer addicted to it. But I think having stayed abiding in the Lord helps a lot with that. I think it's the staying with the Lord and letting Him work more and more to make you Christlike that will eventually and completely sets you free of whatever addictions. So to me abiding in God becomes just a part of you and replaces the addiction. The whole process did take a long time though.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Really?? Give me the English translation and the book, chapter & verse where you find the word "sodomy'. Show me a dictionary or thesaurus that show "homosexuality" and "sodomy" as synonyms. Also, explain why various translations cannot decide where to use the word "sodomite" as a translation. For your information, if you check the etymology of the word, you'll find the church invented the word around 1200-1300 AD.

sodomy, noncoital carnal copulation. The term is understood in history, literature, and law in several senses: (1) as denoting any homosexual practices between men (Britannica)

sodomy - anal or oral copulation with another person
especially : anal or oral copulation with a member of the same sex (Webster)

sodomy - Any of several forms of sexual intercourse held to be unnatural, particularly bestiality or historically homosexuality ( Wiki)

The word sodomy comes from the Biblical town of Sodom, where homosexuality was rampant. I could give more definitions but I think these are clear enough.

 

[IsaiahA]

You took off on a tangent instead of supporting what you claimed in your statement: "Sodomy is another Biblical word for homosexuality." You will not find that word in the Bible. You then used the trick of the Jehovah's Witnesses, lift a partial quote from the Encyclopedia Britannica when that distorts what the full article states. I have the online Britannica and the full article reads:

"sodomy, noncoital carnal copulation. The term is understood in history, literature, and law in several senses: (1) as denoting any homosexual practices between men, in allusion to the biblical story of Sodom (Genesis 18:19), (2) as denoting anal intercourse, (3) as synonymous with bestiality or zoophilia (i.e., sexual relations between human beings and animals), and (4) as comprehending a number of other sexual activities, ranging from sexual contacts with minors to oral-genital contacts and oral intercourse between adults.

Sodomy is a crime in some jurisdictions and is condemned as a mark of abnormality in many others. Some legal codes provide penalties as severe as life imprisonment for homosexual intercourse, even if the relations are voluntary and between legally consenting adults. So-called sodomy laws, actually proscribing a variety of sexual contacts, appear to apply even to married couples. No such regulations are found in the codes of Denmark, France, Italy, Sweden, or Switzerland, among others. The Wolfenden committee in England and the American Law Institute in the United States recommended abolition of criminal provisions in this area, except in cases involving violence, children, or public solicitation to commercial vice. This position was adopted in Illinois in 1961 (and later in numerous other U.S. states) and in England in 1967. In 1986 the U.S. Supreme Court upheld a Georgia antisodomy law in Bowers v. Hardwick, but the decision was reversed in 2003, when the court struck down a Texas law that criminalized consensual sex between adults of the same gender. With the court’s ruling in Lawrence v. Texas, antisodomy statues in 12 other U.S. states were effectively overturned."

A true definition of "sodomy" in our day does match the Sodom account, an attempted rape! That has nothing to do with enduring same sex loving relationships and to try to equate it is dishonest and wicked.

There are so many ignorant charges of condemnation made on various topics in this forum, I'd suggest paying attention to the words of Jesus -

"I tell you, on the day of judgment you will have to give an account for every careless word you utter; for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.” (Matt 12:36-37)

I have no intention of continuing on this topic for it is useless. The historic record I posted was to be an assist in understanding the historical and culture setting of Paul's writings in Romans 1, not a debate about homosexuals.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

You took off on a tangent instead of supporting what you claimed in your statement: "Sodomy is another Biblical word for homosexuality." You will not find that word in the Bible.

There are all kinds of words not in the Bible. Trinity, not in the Bible, still people know what your are talking about when you say the word. There are all kinds of dictionary defs. I could have used that more clearly state what sodomy means. Since we're adults I didn't think we needed to break it down further.

Call it sodomy, homosexuality, effeminate, gay ... all are sin. Done, argument over. You can save your breath.

 

[Niki7]

Conquered, yes..... eliminated, no.
There are several "sins" that will be with a person all his life, and what matters is, does he give in to the sin, or does he, through the help of the Spirit, resist that sin?
Alcoholics suffer from an addiction, and can successfully NOT drink, but the fact that they are an addict is ALWAYS there.
I imagine it is the same with many homosexuals. That addiction will always be there, but they can successfully NOT act on it, or dwell on it.

That may be what you believe, but it is not a true statement.

Basically you seem to be stating that God is limited in His deliverance. You know, I guess in the end it really does make a huge difference with regards to what a person believes as to how God replies.

The addiction is not at all going to be with a person for life but when a person has that belief, then that is sadly very likely what will be their experience.

Not to say we are not tempted, but an addiction is something that happens in the mind and or the body.

 

[ResidentAlien]

That has nothing to do with enduring same sex loving relationships and to try to equate it is dishonest and wicked.

And enduring same-sex loving relationships have nothing to do with Christianity. The truly dishonest and wicked thing is saying they do.

 

[hornetguy]

I know people who used to refer to themselves as "alcoholics" (according to AA doctrine) no longer do so and are able to have a glass of alcohol without "relapsing" into addictive behavior.

As you said, they just referred to themselves as an alcoholic. There are definite physiological traits that make alcoholism a true disease.... one that you do not ever "get over" . All you can do is stop drinking it. You cannot dabble in it. The addiction is always there, for true alcoholics.

 

[hornetguy]

The addiction is not at all going to be with a person for life

You obviously have not had much experience in the field of addiction. You are incorrect.

 

[Niki7]

Really?? Give me the English translation and the book, chapter & verse where you find the word "sodomy'. Show me a dictionary or thesaurus that show "homosexuality" and "sodomy" as synonyms. Also, explain why various translations cannot decide where to use the word "sodomite" as a translation. For your information, if you check the etymology of the word, you'll find the church invented the word around 1200-1300 AD.

That's a tricky argument and clever (not really) wordplay gives an excuse to those who continue to practice their sin in the mistaken belief they have God's blessing.

It is interesting that the NRSV Updated Edition 2021 has the following text note on 1 Cor. 6:9 -

a. 6.9 Meaning of Gk uncertain (about malakos)
b. 6.9 Meaning of Gk uncertain (about arsenokoites)

Well that just changes everything then. I knew about that though. People are breaking their brains trying to make homosexuality mainstream.

In March 2012, Matthew Vines posted a video on YouTube suggesting that "being gay is not a sin," and that the Bible "does not condemn, loving, committed same-sex relationships." He spoke eloquently from the heart with poise, conviction and vulnerability. The video quickly went viral.

Vines is a bright young man raised in a Christian home. At age 19, he left Harvard University after his third semester so that he could come out to his family and friends in Wichita. He knew that his father would not agree with the way he reconciled his sexuality with Scripture. So Vines sought to arm himself with biblical scholarship on the affirmation of same-sex relationships and strove to convince his family and church that they were wrong—that homosexuality is not a sin.

Vines's new book, God and the Gay Christian: The Biblical Case in Support of Same-Sex Relationships, expounds further on the arguments made in his video. His aim is not to present new information, but to synthesize gay-affirming arguments and make them accessible for a broader and younger audience. Vines does a good job fulfilling this goal. Unfortunately, his book consists of some logical and exegetical fallacies, and it does not address the shortcomings of the authors to whom it is most indebted. And although Vines professes a "high view" of the Bible, he ultimately fails to apply uncomfortable biblical truths in a way that embraces a costly discipleship.

ARTICLE FOUND HERE

 

[Niki7]

You obviously have not had much experience in the field of addiction. You are incorrect.

Well that is not a true statement either. How much clinical experience do have? How many people have you prayed for that have been completely set free from their 'addiction'? To state 'you obviously' indicates a certain knowledge of what I do or do not know. Since you have neither, that automatically puts you in the category of someone who does not take the time to be sure of what they say; or in this case write.

I really am coming to realize how much certain people in this forum think they are always correct, do not ask questions and simply want to be the 'expert'.

You also may have a good rest of the day. I doubt one would have success trying to persuade you any differently from what you already have accepted as truth. Several here have tried and your response is consistent.

 

[JTB]

As a supposed Christian, you're suppose to back up what you say with scripture. But you couldn't do it because what you say and believe aren't backed up by it or by God Himself.

2 Timothy 3:14-16
You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Oh, I have scripture. At least ten pages of it. Far more than I can post here. And I don't care for scripture wars, you know, where I post one verse saying one thing, you then post 2 that say different, I see your two and raise you a third, and so on. It gets us nowhere.

When you have a full understanding of faith vs works, and between salvation vs judgment, you will understand what I have said.

And you'll understand the difference between milk and meat.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

And enduring same-sex loving relationships have nothing to do with Christianity. The truly dishonest and wicked thing is saying they do.

It's not only wicked to say, but a lie to the sinner caught in bondage to homosexuality. Jesus always told people the truth about their condition, and told them He had something better. I'm tired of people calling affirmation and inclusion "love". It isn't, it's a lie.

 

[hornetguy]

Well that is not a true statement either. How much clinical experience do have? How many people have you prayed for that have been completely set free from their 'addiction'? To state 'you obviously' indicates a certain knowledge of what I do or do not know. Since you have neither, that automatically puts you in the category of someone who does not take the time to be sure of what they say; or in this case write.

I really am coming to realize how much certain people in this forum think they are always correct, do not ask questions and simply want to be the 'expert'.

You also may have a good rest of the day. I doubt one would have success trying to persuade you any differently from what you already have accepted as truth. Several here have tried and your response is consistent.

Yes, my response is consistent because of the 10 or so years I spent working with addicts, and being around them, many of whom prayed night and day to be released from their addiction, who were NOT freed from it. It was ALWAYS there. Their success was measured in the days that they, through the help of God, could resist that addiction and NOT drink/shoot up.
Your pollyanna world sounds nice, but it is not based in reality. I know that God can heal anything, and can do anything, but sometimes that "healing" is simply the strength to resist the urge/temptation.
Why was the apostle Paul not healed from his affliction? He said that he prayed continuously for it's removal, and it was not removed. He got past it, with the help of God. Just like an addict does.
You have not been on this forum long enough to judge my thinking on my "correctness".... you would do well to listen more, and speak less for a while. YOU might learn something.