Salvation is for the Whole World

[rogerg]

If your thoughts were true, then Jesus would be a liar and we know he isnt--John 17:3--This means eternal life, their knowing you( Father) THE ONLY TRUE GOD and the one whom you sent forth Christ Jesus. 2 major points of reality there-1) The Father is the only true God-2) The only true God sent another he did not come down here.

There is only one God. Your mistake is that you try to assess God's attributes by the dimensional limitations of this world. God can be in multiple places at the same time, representing Himself in each however He so chooses to. Jesus Christ, while having taken on the form of a servant, was yet of the one God: Christ was fully God AND fully man. The Bible demonstrates Jesus from different perspectives and in different roles, depending upon what in view, but nevertheless, because Christ was being portrayed in one particular role, does not mean that, at the same time, He was not still of the other too.

[Exo 3:14 KJV] 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

I posted this to you before, but you chose not to reply to it, so I'll repost:

It is clear that God is the Saviour:

[Jde 1:25 KJV] 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, [be] glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

It is also clear that Jesus Christ is the Saviour:

[2Pe 3:18 KJV] 18 But grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. Amen.

So, based upon the above, and given there is only one God and one Saviour, if God is, and Jesus Christ is, then by simple logical deduction, Jesus Christ must be God or 2 Pe 3:18 and other like verses are very wrong - which they aren't.

 

[rogerg]

If you are not acknowledging that the scriptures teach that there are two distinctive worlds, then you would have to say that the following scriptures are teaching that God "so loved the following world:

John 15:18-19 - If the world hat you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own; but ye are not of the world, but I have chosen ye out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, do you inquire among yourselves, of that I said, a little while, and ye shall not see me; and again, a little while, and ye shall see me? Verily, Verily, I say unto you, that ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice, and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.

John 17:9 - I pray for them; I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me

John 17:14 - I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world,

James 4:4 - Know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? Whosoever therefore shall be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

This verse demonstrates there is another world - the world to come:

[Jhn 18:36 KJV] 36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

 

[aa31000]

I agree. Is the 2nd death a place of eternal torment or no longer in existence?

Deuteronomy 30:19-- God set before all life or death both will be everlasting.

 

[aa31000]

You seem to ignore my statement with hogwash.

Calling truth from Jesus hogwash isn't very wise.

 

[Sipsey]

Calling truth from Jesus hogwash isn't very wise.

You err greatly, it is your words that preceded the verses that is lacking, not Scripture.

 

[Cameron143]

Deuteronomy 30:19-- God set before all life or death both will be everlasting.

Why is death everlasting?

 

[aa31000]

I began thinking that you don't believe it is possible for One God, the True One God, is not capable of dealing with His creation in more than [one way] be it in the image of a human being, or through the Spirit and it still be the One True God?

You don't believe that God, who His Spirit, the WORD is Spirit, the Holy Spirit is Spirit, can be the SAME One True God through a Man that needed to be Sacrificed and His Spirit that dwells within all Believers by through God, WHO is Spirit cannot ALL IMAGES represented of the Being of Who God Chose to represent Himself as the One True God?

Jesus said the Father Dwells inside Him.

As the WORD [Spirit] (remember He was made flesh) 《that means》 {He existed in the Beginning in Spirit, because God is Spirit} He took on the form of a man [just as all True representations of God are Male (Father- WORD- Holy Spirit)] and He became the ONLY "possible" true Vessel that could Save our souls.

The one whom God created all other things through= Gods master worker , he speaks at Prov 8-The one beside God during the creation process being explained there. He tells all he was created at Prov 8. Backed by Coll 1:15-Jesus is the FIRSTBORN of all creation--All creation occurred at the beginning.

 

[aa31000]

There is only one God. Your mistake is that you try to assess God's attributes by the dimensional limitations of this world. God can be in multiple places at the same time, representing Himself in each however He so chooses to. Jesus Christ, while having taken on the form of a servant, was yet of the one God: Christ was fully God AND fully man. The Bible demonstrates Jesus from different perspectives and in different roles, depending upon what in view, but nevertheless, because Christ was being portrayed in one particular role, does not mean that, at the same time, He was not still of the other too.

[Exo 3:14 KJV] 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

I posted this to you before, but you chose not to reply to it, so I'll repost:

It is clear that God is the Saviour:

[Jde 1:25 KJV] 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, [be] glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

It is also clear that Jesus Christ is the Saviour:

[2Pe 3:18 KJV] 18 But grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. Amen.

So, based upon the above, and given there is only one God and one Saviour, if God is, and Jesus Christ is, then by simple logical deduction, Jesus Christ must be God or 2 Pe 3:18 and other like verses are very wrong - which they aren't.

Hebrew scholars say that statement in the OT does NOT translate-i am that i am--It translates i will be what i will be. I am that i am was put in to mislead.
Jesus didn't become savior until he completed dying for the wages of sin he did not owe. He could have failed, its why satan tempted him in the wilderness. Until that point, only YHWH was savior.

 

[Sipsey]

Hebrew scholars say that statement in the OT does NOT translate-i am that i am--It translates i will be what i will be. I am that i am was put in to mislead.
Jesus didn't become savior until he completed dying for the wages of sin he did not owe. He could have failed, its why satan tempted him in the wilderness. Until that point, only YHWH was savior.

Want cheese with that baloney?

 

[Cameron143]

Want cheese with that baloney?

Not sure this is what Jesus had in mind when He said when I was hungry, you gave me to eat. Do they make kosher baloney?

 

[Sipsey]

Not sure this is what Jesus had in mind when He said when I was hungry, you gave me to eat. Do they make kosher baloney?

Indeed!

 

[Cameron143]

Indeed! View attachment 248905 View attachment 248905

Learn something new every day.

 

[rogerg]

Hebrew scholars say that statement in the OT does NOT translate-i am that i am--It translates i will be what i will be. I am that i am was put in to mislead.

"I will be what I will be" conveys the same point as "I am what I am" - that God makes of Himself what He chooses to be whenever
He so chooses to be it. The point being that He will not be constrained by physical limitations/characteristics of a cosmos that He created.

[Jhn 5:18, 23 KJV]
18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. ...
23 That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Jesus didn't become savior until he completed dying for the wages of sin he did not owe. He could have failed, its why satan tempted him in the wilderness. Until that point, only YHWH was savior.

How did you ever come to that conclusion? I know of nowhere in the Bible where anything even close to that is stated. Sorry
to say this, but it sounds like you've formulated a doctrine of your own making without any biblical basis for it- the logic you use is faulty. Trying to rationalize it into something comprehensible is like trying to force a square peg into a round hole - it just won't fit.

Only God is/was the Saviour and will be so for eternity. For there to be more than one Saviour, or if God had switched from Himself to Christ (I guess that's what you're saying), becomes an absurd proposition. Since (according to you) there already was a Saviour, why would another be needed? You encounter severe logical difficulties by trying to make out of one, two. Saviour is a title, one that Christ alone assumed in eternity past. Christ, being the Christ, was foreordained Saviour before the foundation of the world. The completion of Hs offering was on the cross, but nevertheless, His ordination to that title was from before the foundation of the world. Therefore, it would be a logical impossibility for more than one Saviour to have ever existed, and for that one Saviour to not be Christ and God.

[1Pe 1:18-20 KJV]
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, [as] silver and gold, from your vain conversation [received] by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

[Gen 22:8 KJV]
8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

 

[rogerg]

Your Phi 2:6 is erred. Heb 1:8 as well-1:4 proves that--If God didnt give Jesus a name above the angels its saying he is equal to them. Psalm 45:7-Jesus has a God-partners= Angels. Your translations teach 2 different Gods, 2 different truths because of errors like i pointed out. Errors translated in by the religion that came out of Rome to fit false council teachings.

If you stand in front of a mirror with a gun-you see an image-If you shoot that image in the mirror, it proves an image is never the real thing.

Your "mirror" statement is absurd. By it, you attempt to reduce God to a prisoner of the laws of the world He created.
Do you realize that the term "angel" can mean messenger? Those saved are called angels in that they are messengers of the gospel.
This is the problem you have - you seem unable to comprehend that Christ was simultaneously BOTH man AND God. It was God's plan that Jesus reconcile man to God as a man while yet being God. Jesus's manifestation was not for Him to be in His glory as God in heaven, but in this world as a man - the kinsman redeemer.
The verses you referenced prove just the opposite to what you think they do. They demonstrate Christ as both God and man.
Had Jesus not been God, salvation could not have been brought to fruition: He who brought forgiveness of sin
must be of spiritual value sufficient to make payment for all being forgiven of sin, or payment could/would
not have been accepted by the Father. The sacrifice of someone other than God could not have achieved that.

The remainder of your post about "errors" is nonsensical to me.

 

[CorrectiveLens]

So, who do you say Jesus really is? A created being who just happens to be extremely obedient, or something else?

Jesus is Lord and God of all creation. He is our savior and our comforter. He sits at the Father's right hand and is sinless because He obeys the Father's will. The Father put all things under Christ's feet except Himself ( 1 Cor 15: 27-28). Christ has His own mind and is not the same entity as the Father. The Father has always existed. Christ was the first living entity formed to accompany the Father. Christ was with the Father in the beginning because the beginning started when Christ proceedeth from the Father. That is why there is a Father and Son relationship. Christ was the Father's Son before He became human. John 16: 27-28 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
Isaiah 43: 10 ... before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. This verse is spoken by Christ because the Father has no beginning but apparently, the God (Christ) in Isaiah 43: 10 had a time that existed before Him which means that He didn't always exist in the past. Actually, the beginning started when Christ was formed out of the Father's essence. Alpha and Omega means the first and the last.
The Holy Spirit is the Father's Spirit (essence) through which He communicates and empowers. The Father operates through His Spirit filled Christ, and Christ operates through His Spirit filled believers. 1 Cor 11: 3 But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God (the Father). 1 Cor 2: 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.
1 Cor 3: 23 And ye are Christ's, and Christ is God's.
This scripture explains that our relationship to Christ is similar to Christ's relationship to the Father. We belong to Christ because we receive His Spirit and become part of His spiritual body. Christ is filled with the Father's Spirit and is part of the spiritual body of the Father ( His right hand). Since Christ belongs to the Father, we also belong to the Father and are part of His body. Both the Spirit of the Father and Son reside in those that are saved. We are so unworthy, but Christ makes us worthy. Praise the Lord.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Most evangelicals think, Jesus Christ died to pay for the sins of every person in the world, bar none.

Well, here's the deal, the Word says He died for all. So anything other than that is false teaching. There more than a dozen Scriptures to prove it. I think I'll stick with the Word on this one.

 

[CorrectiveLens]

Which verse is that?

Are there other choices beside the three that I mentioned? If you have difficulty rationalizing, from my perspective, I can't help you. I will however pray for your enlightenment.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

This verse demonstrates there is another world - the world to come:

[Jhn 18:36 KJV] 36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Could you explain what world to come that you have reference to?

 

[CorrectiveLens]

Could you explain what world to come that you have reference to?

Christ is contrasting the physical world we live in now with the spiritual world that we will live in later.

 

[Snacks]

Are there other choices beside the three that I mentioned? If you have difficulty rationalizing, from my perspective, I can't help you. I will however pray for your enlightenment.

I did not see where you posted three Scriptures. That said, however you have the entire Bible from which to choose, so have at it.