Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[rogerg]

According to you we must resist the drawing of the Lord? How does one "become" saved. Does God not know who is saved even before they are born?

There is nothing that a person can do to cause it. It is solely a gift of God by which we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit. From which,
come the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Think Saul.

 

[cv5]

Think Saul.

Saul was called and he went. Willingly.

Act 26:19
Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

 

[rogerg]

BTW, who do you think you are, declaring that YOU know exactly who, why and how ANYODY is saved.
WE DON'T KNOW. You don't know.

By "who" do you mean you think I'm saying that I know which individuals will become saved? No, that is not at all what I mean.
However, the Bible does tell us that God determined from the foundation of the world who they would be.
Without that as its prerequisite, grace would not possible because all that would remain would be our works for salvation
and they can never bring salvation.

 

[cv5]

By "who" do you mean you think I'm saying that I know which individuals will become saved? No, that is not at all what I mean.
However, the Bible does tell us that God determined from the foundation of the world who they would be.
Without that as its prerequisite, grace would not possible because all that would remain would be our works for salvation
and they can never bring salvation.

Luk 11:52
“Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter in yourselves, and those who were entering in you hindered.”

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I connect predestination with God's foreknowledge (Romans 8:29-30) rather than fatalistic determination.

Here's why I don't believe God created some humans for Hell.

This Verse literally makes God suffering with schizophrenia by saying [[I HAVE NO DELIGHT IN THE DEATH OF THE WICKED BUT RATHER THEY TURN TO ME]]...if God did in fact create people specifically for Hell::


In fact. This VERSE shows us Free Will!

So enjoy your idealism but it is WRONG!!

 

[rogerg]

Saul was called and he went. Willingly.

Act 26:19
Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

Wait - It says that he was NOT disobedient. Where do you see Saul being given a choice?
Christ MADE him a minister and He did not require nor seek Saul's acquiesce to do so.

[Act 26:16 KJV] 16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

 

[rogerg]

Luk 11:52
“Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter in yourselves, and those who were entering in you hindered.”

What does that mean? Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[rogerg]

Israel turned down the "invitation" to the Kingdom and the Lordship of their true King, likewise the people of this age.

BTW, who do you think you are, declaring that YOU know exactly who, why and how ANYODY is saved.
WE DON'T KNOW. You don't know.

And I thank God that I don't know either. Because I don't want to know. Our task is to preach the gospel. The Holy Ghost, the Son and the Father take care of the business of salvation.

NOT MY JOB to split hairs and strain gnats trying to play God in assuming to know who did what, when, how, and why.

It was your comment, not mine. I'm just trying to understand your point.

They could not believe because most of them were spiritually blind.

Those saved, are saved, only because God chose them to salvation - that's why it is of grace, otherwise, it would be of works.
There is no third choice.

[Heb 4:1-2 KJV]
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left [us] of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].

 

[cv5]

Where do you see Saul being given a choice?

Act 26:19
Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

Where do you see he wasn't?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

pt2 due to character limits




-You do not believe we have the seal of the spirit, a pledge until redemption day (resurrection)
parable of ten virgins seems to imply there were 10 virgins waiting, which many think this refers to Christians, who missed the bridegroom coming. Though ~maybe that's missing the rapture (albeit, you could likely still be saved afterward, but then have to go through the tribulation).

Heb 12
15See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many become defiled; 16that there be no sexually immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal. 17For you know that even afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears.

interesting wording, "falling short of the grace of God", and being unable to inherit the blessing (heaven) and being rejected.

Rev 2
2‘I know your deeds and your labor and perseverance, and that you cannot tolerate evil people, and you have put those who call themselves apostles to the test, and they are not, and you found them to be false; 3and you have [c]perseverance and have endured on account of My name, and have not become weary. 4But I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 5Therefore, remember from where you have fallen, and repent, and do the [d]deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and I will remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent.

what does "removing your lampstand from its place" mean? This is Revelation, so like God talking to the churches AFTER Jesus was here. If salvation was eternal, why would He tell churches (that is, believers) anything like this? He'd just say, bunker down. Don't worry cause ofc you're OSAS. That's not the implication I get from these words.

Rev 3
1“To the angel of the church in Sardis write:
He who has [a]the seven spirits of God and the seven stars, says this: ‘I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, and yet you are dead. 2Be constantly alert, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of My God. 3So remember what you have received and heard; and [c]keep it, and repent. Then if you are not alert, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you. 4But you have a few [d]people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 5The one who overcomes will be clothed the same way, in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. 6The one who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’
...
14“To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:

The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the [k]Origin of the creation of God, says this:
15‘I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot. 16So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will vomit you out of My mouth.
...
19Those whom I love, I rebuke and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.


Again, this to the churches/believers post/after Jesus came. Why would God say this, if they had eternal security?

It says the "one who overcomes....I will not erase his name from the book of life". We know your name needs to be in the book of life for salvation/eternal life. This implies, the one who does not overcome, could have his name erased from the book of life, aka loss of salvation.

can you please make your posts smaller. if you have specific questions ask. if you have specific answers state.

I am not going to sit here and try to read a lengthy post and try to determine what you are asking or saying.;.

 

[cv5]

God determined....

NOT @rogerg determined.....

 

[rogerg]

Act 26:19
Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

Where do you see he wasn't?

You lost me. I'm saying that he WASN"T disobedient - that was my point. He wasn't because God MADE him a minister.

 

[cv5]

You lost me. I'm saying that he WASN"T disobedient - that was my point. He wasn't because God MADE him a minister.

rogerg said:
Where do you see Saul being given a choice?

The question was "choice" not disobedience.

Act 26:19
Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

 

[rogerg]

rogerg said:
Where do you see Saul being given a choice?

The question was "choice" not disobedience.

Act 26:19
Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

I'm not following you at all. God did not give Saul/Paul a choice - He made him a minster and Paul was
faithful to it but because of God's will for him.

 

[rogerg]

NOT @rogerg determined.....

Did I say otherwise?

 

[Magenta]

Wait, I think my reply was to The_watchers_2017. I said that you were being snarky? Really I don't recall that at all.
Snarky is not a word I use. Give me your post numbers and I'll reply. I don't duck questions or disagreements.

I didn't say it was you. Just addressing in a general way as to what people find acceptable.

I asked you a number of times along the lines of, if you did not choose to believe, were you forced to accept?

After you said if we have to do anything it is not grace.

I also asked you who defined grace that way. Someone else answered.

They gave a book and no chapter at first, nor verse, even when pressed.

 

[cv5]

I'm not following you at all.

Of course you are not.

rogerg said:
Where do you see Saul being given a choice?
Act 26:19
Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

@cv5 said: Where do you see he wasn't?

 

[rogerg]

Of course you are not.

rogerg said:
Where do you see Saul being given a choice?
Act 26:19
Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

@cv5 said: Where do you see he wasn't?

Oh my. I'm not saying that he wasn't obedient, and that's at least the third time I've said so.
Why do you keep restating that?

 

[cv5]

Oh my. I'm not saying that he wasn't obedient, and that's at least the third time I've said so.
Why do you keep restating that?

rogerg said:
Where do you see Saul being given a choice?
Act 26:19
Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

@cv5 said: Where do you see he wasn't?

 

[Beckie]

Don't think so. All that He draws must become saved and so He cannot be drawing everyone, or everyone would have to become saved.
I don't see a request being made to anyone in that verse, do you? Seems to me to be an absolute statement with not contribution
of those drawn. The transaction was entirely between Father and Jesus.
I think that to be drawn one must have ALREADY become saved and being drawn is its result.

I never said the request was for everyone.
What is your Scripture support for

I think that to be drawn one must have ALREADY become saved and being drawn is its result.

How does one become saved?