Past sins forgiven

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Underwhosewings

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Jan 19, 2023
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This would be contradictory to other passages all ready quoted and some more of many examples;

REV 3:19 "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Matt 4:17 - From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out,

Matthew 3:8 - Bear fruit in keeping with repentance.

I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Luke 13:3

Then you have the below, unless 'you receive the kingdom of God as a little child' you cannot be saved - so who is saved?

“Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God. Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.” (Mark 10/14–15)
Yes we have a responsibility, we have our own will, and we must choose who we will serve.
Yes, we must repent. The Lord commands us to.
And the blood of Gods Son Jesus Christ, which is on the mercy seat in heaven today, is the payment for my sin.
Without the shedding of blood is no remission.
 
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First for the OP! Read your verse in context! And use a modern version so you can understand what the passage says. Another theological error made by someone who doesn't understand KJV English!

@anothertheory

"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—" Roman's 3:23b-25

Christ was the sacrifice for sin! That is our redemption! I do accept Paul's words, because they have proved to be correct over the last 2000 years. You have created a piece of theology, not based on taking out (exegesis) of the Bible. But, instead, by taking your theory and reading it into the Bible- eisegesis! Bad hermeneutics or Bible interpretation!

John 3:17 says, “God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.” By sacrificing himself for us on the cross, he took the punishment for all of our sins at once.

"For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made of no effect.
18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1 Cor. 1:17-18

"But far be it from me to boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world." Gal 6:14

"His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility." Eph 2:15b- 16

"For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross." Col 1:19b-20

"When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross." Col 2:13-15

"He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” 1 Peter 2:24

So many places in the Bible, including one of Jesus' disciples who walked with Christ for 3 years, saying we are redeemed through the cross. There are more, but the collections of verses & passages, condemns your weird alternative, of making Jesus into what you want to see, rather than what is faithfully recorded in the Bible!

I often say what a great study in theology the cross makes!
OT - you haven't show me where you say I am wrong.

As to NT - you quote mainly Paul and his own 'Gospel' but it would contradict the OT and NT - that without repent you can be saved because Jesus gave his blood.

2 Chronicles 7:13-14

14 if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

“For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.” Matthew 5:20

2 Timothy 2:25 Correcting his opponents with ***gentleness.*** God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,
 
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I don't think he considers himself a christian.

I'm not sure why he would be here unless to insert doubts, based on what I see so far.
To AnotherTheory: I would not agree with your assessment of the Old Testament.

I believe that the sacrifice in the temple was prophesying of the Lamb of GOD that takes away the sins of the world.

Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins.

Your repentance is required as an act of faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ at the cross.

His blood brings forgiveness for your transgressions to GOD's Law.

Your repentance is the entering in to the covenant to now walk with GOD in acceptance and thankfulness for the provision being made in the Blood of the Son of GOD.

I think you are confusing the two.

Unless you seek the Living GOD in truth, you will never be able to understand.
OT - You haven't explained what is wrong or any evidnece.

I believe that I have quoted quite a few - at best it would be contradictory. Jesus never stated this, mainly Paul.

Matthew 9:13 - 13 But go and learn what this means: I desire mercy, not sacrifice For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

Hosea 6:6 - 6 For I desire mercy, not sacrifice,
 
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Sins are forgiven after repentance

Leviticus 17:1,11 KJV
And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, [11] For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

(without shedding of blood is no remission.)

Hebrews 9:15-26 KJV
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
[16] For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[17] For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
[18] Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
[19] For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
[20] Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
[21] Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
[22] And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
[23] It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
[24] For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
[25] Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
[26] For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.


Revelation 12:11 KJV
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Leviticus 17 relates to animal sacrifice - not human. I have quoted a number of passages - so contradictory at best
 

Ted01

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May 14, 2022
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OT - you haven't show me where you say I am wrong.

As to NT - you quote mainly Paul and his own 'Gospel' but it would contradict the OT and NT - that without repent you can be saved because Jesus gave his blood.

2 Chronicles 7:13-14

14 if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

“For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.” Matthew 5:20

2 Timothy 2:25 Correcting his opponents with ***gentleness.*** God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,
You're incorrect that Paul taught "another Gospel", it's simply not true that he didn't teach repentance as part of the message.

Acts 26:19-20 (ESV)

19 “Therefore, O King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance.

Rom. 2:4-5 (NKJV)

4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God...
 

Underwhosewings

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2023
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I don't think he considers himself a christian.

I'm not sure why he would be here unless to insert doubts, based on what I see so far.
His Spiritual Status”
Is “Unsure”
So he needs to know this…….and not be unsure.
John 17:3 KJV
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
 
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Yeah, I guess that is Another Theory.
I do find it curious that you would trust the OT but not trust the NT?
Or for that matter, why some people insist on calling themselves Christians when they don't trust and/or even believe Him?

Oh well...
Not all Christians believe Jesus is the begotten son of God or God himself, albeit a smaller number. Most Christians believe Paul not Jesus. The bible contents was decided hundred of years after Jesus to make him God, that's why we don't have the books of Peter, James, Barnabas, Thomas etc... I follow Jesus and God.

Apocalypse of Peter

The Savior said to me, "He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus. But this one into whose hands and feet they drive the nails is his fleshly part, which is the substitute being put to shame, the one who came into being in his likeness. But look at him and me."

But I, when I had looked, said "Lord, no one is looking at you. Let us flee this place."
 

Underwhosewings

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2023
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Australia
Leviticus 17 relates to animal sacrifice - not human. I have quoted a number of passages - so contradictory at best
The LORD is speaking here about himself, not Moses.
The LORD says,
“I have given it to you”

Leviticus 17:1,11 KJV
And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, [11] For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
 

MessengerofTruth

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Dec 21, 2022
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OT - You haven't explained what is wrong or any evidnece.

I believe that I have quoted quite a few - at best it would be contradictory. Jesus never stated this, mainly Paul.

Matthew 9:13 - 13 But go and learn what this means: I desire mercy, not sacrifice For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

Hosea 6:6 - 6 For I desire mercy, not sacrifice,
What about sins past?

Why did God have the sacrifices in the temple?
 
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His Spiritual Status”
Is “Unsure”
So he needs to know this…….and not be unsure.
John 17:3 KJV
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
I agree with that - Jesus was sent by God - not that he was God;

Matt 26:39. Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."

Mark 10:18 Jesus said “And Jesus said to him, ‘Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.”

John 14:28 Jesus said "My Father (GOD) is greater than I"

John 8:28 Jesus said "I do nothing of myself"

Isaiah 11:1-3 "1. A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.
2. The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him (Jesus)-- the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of
counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD (Jesus fearing his GOD)--
3. and he will delight in the fear of the LORD. He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes, or
decide by what he hears with his ears;"
 
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Also what do you say of Jesus Christ? Who is He?

An extraordinary human sent by God on a divine mission - repent for sins

REV 3:19 "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.


The Church borrowed the pagan title and gave it to Jesus: examples - The Mexicans, preferring a full- grown sheep, had their "Ram of God." The Celts had their "Heifer of God," and the Egyptians their Bull of God."

(Tom Harper, The Pagan Christ, pp. 45-46)
 

Ted01

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May 14, 2022
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Not all Christians believe Jesus is the begotten son of God or God himself, albeit a smaller number. Most Christians believe Paul not Jesus. The bible contents was decided hundred of years after Jesus to make him God, that's why we don't have the books of Peter, James, Barnabas, Thomas etc... I follow Jesus and God.

Apocalypse of Peter

The Savior said to me, "He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus. But this one into whose hands and feet they drive the nails is his fleshly part, which is the substitute being put to shame, the one who came into being in his likeness. But look at him and me."

But I, when I had looked, said "Lord, no one is looking at you. Let us flee this place."
I appreciate your taking the time to state your views... I do not agree with them, but that's neither here nor there.

I've heard of similar views about Christianity, Bible inaccuracy, etc., and also a group called Red Letter Christians - frankly, I see it all as nonsense and even heretical. Sorry.

I don't understand when people who claim that the Bible is horribly inaccurate still use it to quote from and draw their beliefs? Perhaps you could enlighten us?
How do you pick and choose between that which is worthy to be trusted as accurate?
 

GRACE_ambassador

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How did Jesus death and resurrection pay for my present sins when I wasn’t even born yet?
If you have violated the law, then show up in court and are told "even though you are guilty, someone has already paid the penalty for your violation and you are free to go", you will understand Christ's sacrifice.
 

JohnDB

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"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name "
Yep....this verse may read in English as past tense....but it's a tense in Early Latin/Greek that covers past, present, and future tense all at the same time. A tense that doesn't exist and has not existed in English.