Past sins forgiven
- Thread starter Underwhosewings
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I didn't mean that Jesus is objecting to God - it was said in the context that he is asking to be saved and was heard.
Luke 22:42 saying, “Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, not my will, but yours, be done.”
John 11:41-42 So they took away the stone. And Jesus lifted up his eyes and said, “Father, I thank you that you have heard me. 42 I knew that you always hear me, but I said this on account of the people standing around, that they may believe that you sent me.”
Only God can save, cant pray to yourself to be saved.
YES! - P22:17 17 For dogs have encompassed me; a company of evil-doers have inclosed me; like a lion, they are at my hands and my feet.
common animal motif - Passages before & after Psalm 22:17. Psalm 17:11-12 and 35:17 are sister passages to 22:17
“Many bulls surround me; strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.” (Psalm 22:12)
Roaring lions that tear their prey open their mouths wide against me.” (Psalm 22:13)
Dogs surround me, a pack of villains encircles me“ (Psalm 22:16a)
They are like a lion hungry for prey, like a fierce lion crouching in cover. (Psalm 17:12)
How long, Lord, will you look on? Rescue me from their ravages, my precious life from these lions. (Psalm 35:17)
common animal motif - Passages before & after Psalm 22:17. Psalm 17:11-12 and 35:17 are sister passages to 22:17
“Many bulls surround me; strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.” (Psalm 22:12)
Roaring lions that tear their prey open their mouths wide against me.” (Psalm 22:13)
Dogs surround me, a pack of villains encircles me“ (Psalm 22:16a)
They are like a lion hungry for prey, like a fierce lion crouching in cover. (Psalm 17:12)
How long, Lord, will you look on? Rescue me from their ravages, my precious life from these lions. (Psalm 35:17)
The communication started regarding 'sin' and Jesus died for our sins - OT clearly sates that God does not accept human sacrifice - there is a presumption that the OT prophesises that Jesus will die for our sins. This is completely incorrect! The 'NT' is contradictory regarding this and Jesus crucifixion.
-
1
- Show all
Animal - not human sacrifice
Matthew 9:13 - 13 But go and learn what this means: I desire mercy, not sacrifice For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”
Hosea 6:6 - 6 For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.
Deuteronomy 24:16 - 16 Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin.
Deuteronomy 12:31 - 31 You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of he father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. (Ezekiel 18:20)
Many more passages say the same.
Pauls teachings are contradictory to other passages and Jesus;
“The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.” [Ezekiel 18:20]
Deuteronomy 24:16 - 16 Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin.
2 Kings 14:6 However, he did not kill the children of the assassins, for he obeyed the command of the LORD as written by Moses in the Book of the Law: “Parents must not be put to death for the sins of their children, nor children for the sins of their parents. Those deserving to die must be put to death for their own crimes.”
Matthew 4:17, as we are told about Jesus: “From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, ‘Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.’”
Luke 5:32 - I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.
Repent to God for yoru sins.
First for the OP! Read your verse in context! And use a modern version so you can understand what the passage says. Another theological error made by someone who doesn't understand KJV English!
@anothertheory
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—" Roman's 3:23b-25
Christ was the sacrifice for sin! That is our redemption! I do accept Paul's words, because they have proved to be correct over the last 2000 years. You have created a piece of theology, not based on taking out (exegesis) of the Bible. But, instead, by taking your theory and reading it into the Bible- eisegesis! Bad hermeneutics or Bible interpretation!
John 3:17 says, “God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.” By sacrificing himself for us on the cross, he took the punishment for all of our sins at once.
"For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made of no effect.
18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1 Cor. 1:17-18
"But far be it from me to boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world." Gal 6:14
"His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility." Eph 2:15b- 16
"For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross." Col 1:19b-20
"When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross." Col 2:13-15
"He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” 1 Peter 2:24
So many places in the Bible, including one of Jesus' disciples who walked with Christ for 3 years, saying we are redeemed through the cross. There are more, but the collections of verses & passages, condemns your weird alternative, of making Jesus into what you want to see, rather than what is faithfully recorded in the Bible!
I often say what a great study in theology the cross makes!
I am saying there is no evidence / prophecy in the OT that Jesus was going to die for our sins. Human sacrifice is not accepted. Everyone is accountable to their own sins and can ask God for 'repentance'. The NT is contradictive not only to the OT but within the NT. Most of this is based on Paul's own teachings, not Jesus.
“Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began…” – Romans 16:25
“Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:” 2 Timothy 2:8
“Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began…” – Romans 16:25
“Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:” 2 Timothy 2:8
This would be contradictory to other passages all ready quoted and some more of many examples;
REV 3:19 "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Matt 4:17 - From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out,
Matthew 3:8 - Bear fruit in keeping with repentance.
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Luke 13:3
Then you have the below, unless 'you receive the kingdom of God as a little child' you cannot be saved - so who is saved?
“Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God. Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.” (Mark 10/14–15)
To AnotherTheory: I would not agree with your assessment of the Old Testament.
I believe that the sacrifice in the temple was prophesying of the Lamb of GOD that takes away the sins of the world.
Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins.
Your repentance is required as an act of faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ at the cross.
His blood brings forgiveness for your transgressions to GOD's Law.
Your repentance is the entering in to the covenant to now walk with GOD in acceptance and thankfulness for the provision being made in the Blood of the Son of GOD.
I think you are confusing the two.
Unless you seek the Living GOD in truth, you will never be able to understand.
I believe that the sacrifice in the temple was prophesying of the Lamb of GOD that takes away the sins of the world.
Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins.
Your repentance is required as an act of faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ at the cross.
His blood brings forgiveness for your transgressions to GOD's Law.
Your repentance is the entering in to the covenant to now walk with GOD in acceptance and thankfulness for the provision being made in the Blood of the Son of GOD.
I think you are confusing the two.
Unless you seek the Living GOD in truth, you will never be able to understand.
-
1
- Show all
Sins are forgiven after repentance
Leviticus 17:1,11 KJV
And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, [11] For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
(without shedding of blood is no remission.)
Hebrews 9:15-26 KJV
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
[16] For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[17] For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
[18] Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
[19] For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
[20] Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
[21] Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
[22] And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
[23] It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
[24] For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
[25] Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
[26] For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Revelation 12:11 KJV
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Leviticus 17:1,11 KJV
And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, [11] For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
(without shedding of blood is no remission.)
Hebrews 9:15-26 KJV
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
[16] For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[17] For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
[18] Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
[19] For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
[20] Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
[21] Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
[22] And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
[23] It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
[24] For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
[25] Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
[26] For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Revelation 12:11 KJV
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.