Calvin did not invent the doctrines of grace
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While it is not funny - it does cause me to chuckle slightly when someone one on this chat brings up the Doctrines of Grace. Which embodies God's Sovereign choice in Election. His Predestinating those to Salvation in His dear Son. For if He had not done this, all humanity would be lost.
However, when one posts about these things, it is like taking the stick of Grace and swatting a bee hive - and then...
Here we go!!!
Same ole responses from the other side. The why is obvious but they won't admit it.
How dare one say that God or a man say: We have no choice!
You have a choice... you just won't of your own will chose God and His Truth.
All that have been brought to Christ, by God's Sovereign work of Grace in their hearts, know that God did not have to choose them. He could have past them by, just like the rest. But if one is honest with Scripture and themselves, they can see this truth in Romans 9:
Rom 9:11 for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,
Rom 9:12 it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13 Even as it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that hath mercy.
But alas, no one wants to discuss this in a reasonable manner - instead they stick to their rant: How dare someone say I have no choice in the matter. Always attempting to place themselves above God. Thus, making Paul's statement in Romans 1, bare out the truth:
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse:
Rom 1:21 because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened.
However, when one posts about these things, it is like taking the stick of Grace and swatting a bee hive - and then...
Here we go!!!
Same ole responses from the other side. The why is obvious but they won't admit it.
How dare one say that God or a man say: We have no choice!
You have a choice... you just won't of your own will chose God and His Truth.
All that have been brought to Christ, by God's Sovereign work of Grace in their hearts, know that God did not have to choose them. He could have past them by, just like the rest. But if one is honest with Scripture and themselves, they can see this truth in Romans 9:
Rom 9:11 for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,
Rom 9:12 it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13 Even as it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that hath mercy.
But alas, no one wants to discuss this in a reasonable manner - instead they stick to their rant: How dare someone say I have no choice in the matter. Always attempting to place themselves above God. Thus, making Paul's statement in Romans 1, bare out the truth:
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse:
Rom 1:21 because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened.
Scripture does not say God ignored all others. Abraham happened to hear and obey. That is what we know. Perhaps others heard and disobeyed. Mmmm, yeah, like Adam and Eve did. So Abraham heard, and he obeyed, and God chose to bless him and his descendants, and enact the plan of salvation through him and his progeny, the plan that was ordained from before the foundation of the world.
Others before Abraham heard and obeyed also, such as Noah-
But Jesus came through Abraham's line-
Others before Abraham heard and obeyed also, such as Noah-
But Jesus came through Abraham's line- Now hold up a second. Scripture does not teach that - it teaches:
Deu 7:6 For thou art a holy people unto Jehovah thy God: Jehovah thy God hath chosen thee to be a people for his own possession, above all peoples that are upon the face of the earth.
Deu 7:7 Jehovah did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all peoples:
Deu 7:8 but because Jehovah loveth you, and because he would keep the oath which he sware unto your fathers, hath Jehovah brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Deu 7:6 For thou art a holy people unto Jehovah thy God: Jehovah thy God hath chosen thee to be a people for his own possession, above all peoples that are upon the face of the earth.
Deu 7:7 Jehovah did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all peoples:
Deu 7:8 but because Jehovah loveth you, and because he would keep the oath which he sware unto your fathers, hath Jehovah brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
... I will confirm the oath that I swore to your father Abraham. I will make your descendants
as numerous as the stars in the sky, and I will give them all these lands, and through your
offspring all nations of the earth will be blessed, because Abraham listened to My
voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.
He heard and obeyed.
as numerous as the stars in the sky, and I will give them all these lands, and through your
offspring all nations of the earth will be blessed, because Abraham listened to My
voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.
He heard and obeyed.
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They that oppose the Doctrines of Grace, will always claim that the Elect are some kind of special, high and mighty group, because they want their will to be equal to God's will. Foolishness.
If you have been touched by God's grace and understand it, then I am sure, you are like me - a little confused as to why I was included in God's Election and well aware of where I should be going. Thus, making me all the more grateful.
If you have been touched by God's grace and understand it, then I am sure, you are like me - a little confused as to why I was included in God's Election and well aware of where I should be going. Thus, making me all the more grateful.
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I couldn't agree with you more. After God regenerated me and I began to understand the Word of God, I saw Election early on in my studies but was more confused by it than appreciative of it. It took years of study and a lot of prayers, as God revealed the workings of Grace to me piece by piece. Even more years to put the pieces together into a cohesive whole.
Now thirty five years latter, I'm still learning the beauty of this wonderful Doctrine and why it had to be this way.
Praise God and His great wisdom.
Now thirty five years latter, I'm still learning the beauty of this wonderful Doctrine and why it had to be this way.
Praise God and His great wisdom.
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My friend, that is not strange. No not at all.
I believe that all of the Lord's true children, love the fact that our God is Sovereign. One of my favorite books is: Arthur W. Pinks - Sovereignty of God. It made me rejoice, to the point, I was in tears. Also, I love to hear the subject preached.
While many give God's Sovereignty lip service, they secretly hate this fact. The proper understanding of His Sovereignty, lifts our understanding of God to the highest heights and creates an assurance that cannot be torn down.
I believe that all of the Lord's true children, love the fact that our God is Sovereign. One of my favorite books is: Arthur W. Pinks - Sovereignty of God. It made me rejoice, to the point, I was in tears. Also, I love to hear the subject preached.
While many give God's Sovereignty lip service, they secretly hate this fact. The proper understanding of His Sovereignty, lifts our understanding of God to the highest heights and creates an assurance that cannot be torn down.
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Unfortunately, right here on CC.
Whenever you hear that some were born predestined to go to Hell, that's Calvinism.
Whenever you hear that some were born predestined to go to Heaven and don't have to come to Jesus, that's Calvinism.
Whenever you hear that there is no such thing as Apostacy, that's Calvinism.
Whenever you hear that Christ only died for a select few, that's Calvinism.
I'm sure that many here are more eloquent in enumerating all the heresies of TULIP than I, but I suggest that we just focus on the truth rather than continue to wallow in the mire of Calvinism.
Whenever you hear that some were born predestined to go to Hell, that's Calvinism.
Whenever you hear that some were born predestined to go to Heaven and don't have to come to Jesus, that's Calvinism.
Whenever you hear that there is no such thing as Apostacy, that's Calvinism.
Whenever you hear that Christ only died for a select few, that's Calvinism.
I'm sure that many here are more eloquent in enumerating all the heresies of TULIP than I, but I suggest that we just focus on the truth rather than continue to wallow in the mire of Calvinism.
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This is not true,
The gift of salvation is available to all. Its not up to God to help a person chose. But anyone who has faith. that faith is also a gift. Because without God and his work,. there would be no faith to have..
Once again, In Jesus own words. its the WORK OF GOD you believe
People are so stuch on trying to attack calvinism it has blinded them to the truth of other areas.
The gift of salvation is available to all. Its not up to God to help a person chose. But anyone who has faith. that faith is also a gift. Because without God and his work,. there would be no faith to have..
Once again, In Jesus own words. its the WORK OF GOD you believe
People are so stuch on trying to attack calvinism it has blinded them to the truth of other areas.
Scripture does not say God ignored all others. Abraham happened to hear and obey. That is what we know. Perhaps others heard and disobeyed. Mmmm, yeah, like Adam and Eve did. So Abraham heard, and he obeyed, and God chose to bless him and his descendants, and enact the plan of salvation through him and his progeny, the plan that was ordained from before the foundation of the world.
Others before Abraham heard and obeyed also, such as Noah- But Jesus came through Abraham's line-
Others before Abraham heard and obeyed also, such as Noah-
But Jesus came through Abraham's line-
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