Hell, Sheol, Hades...

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oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#82
claiming that completely destroy does not mean completely destroy is illogical.;)
Claiming that everlasting punishment means annihilation is very illogical.
Matthew 25:46
“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,895
1,084
113
Oregon
#83
.
It is difficult to tolerate blatant false teaching.

2Tim 2:24-25 . . The Lord's servants must not quarrel but must be kind to
everyone. They must be able to teach effectively and be patient with difficult
people. They should gently teach those who oppose the truth.
_
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
6,339
2,465
113
#84
It is known as the resurrection of all at the end of this age, for judgment.

Those whose names are not found written in the Lamb's Book of Life pass into the second death.
*
God is the author and giver of life. He is eternally self existent. He alone is immortal.
Scripture plainly states this, and yet people will claim that man is born immortal in
direct contradiction to what Scripture plainly states. All life exists in, by, for, and within
Him. Those outside of Him at the end of this age following the resurrection and judgment
of all do not maintain life. They pass into the second death. A multitude of Scriptures attest
to the fact that the unrighteous perish, since death is the wages of sin. The word used (such
as in John 3:16), Strongs #622, is appolumi, which means: to destroy, destroy utterly. Some say
things like, utterly destroy does not mean utterly destroy, and dead means alive forevermore.


I don't see anything illogical about this.
How can they pass to anything?

They are only 'matter' that ceases to exist when physically dead.

They cannot go to the next life because only the saved have immortality according to this theory.

It can only be one or the other.

Either there is some part of the human that goes from this world to the next or there is not

Annihilationism is a materialist view much like an atheist.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
6,339
2,465
113
#85
Claiming that everlasting punishment means annihilation is very illogical.
Matthew 25:46
“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”

I would agree that "everlasting" does not mean forever, "aion" means for an age/time period.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#86
.



2Tim 2:24-25 . . The Lord's servants must not quarrel but must be kind to
everyone. They must be able to teach effectively and be patient with difficult
people. They should gently teach those who oppose the truth.
_
Thank you. I need to print that out and paste it on my wall.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,159
30,309
113
#87
How can they pass to anything?

They are only 'matter' that ceases to exist when physically dead.

They cannot go to the next life because only the saved have immortality according to this theory.

It can only be one or the other.

Either there is some part of the human that goes from this world to the next or there is not

Annihilationism is a materialist view much like an atheist.
That denies a lot of Scripture. Jesus came to give life more abundantly.
This is not given to unbelievers following the resurrection and judgment
of all at the end of this age. Unbelievers perish in the Lake of Fire.


What are you suggesting is resurrected at the end of this age? It seems you are saying
only the material part of man is resurrected. I am not sure where you get this idea.
From atheists?


You also seem to be suggesting that unbelievers attain to life ever after, which
again is expressly promised to those who have faith, which unbelievers do not.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#88
I would agree that "everlasting" does not mean forever, "aion" means for an age/time period.
Everlasting means ever lasting. That is why it was translated as everlasting. We have other scriptures that reiterate this over and over again.

Mark 9:
43And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Revelation 20:10
“And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
6,339
2,465
113
#89
That denies a lot of Scripture. Jesus came to give life more abundantly.
This is not given to unbelievers following the resurrection and judgment
of all at the end of this age. Unbelievers perish in the Lake of Fire.


What are you suggesting is resurrected at the end of this age? It seems you are saying
only the material part of man is resurrected. I am not sure where you get this idea.
From atheists?


You also seem to be suggesting that unbelievers attain to life ever after, which
again is expressly promised to those who have faith, which unbelievers do not.

Let me try again to explain my troubles with this view.

Back in a bit.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
6,339
2,465
113
#90
That denies a lot of Scripture. Jesus came to give life more abundantly.
This is not given to unbelievers following the resurrection and judgment
of all at the end of this age. Unbelievers perish in the Lake of Fire.


What are you suggesting is resurrected at the end of this age? It seems you are saying
only the material part of man is resurrected. I am not sure where you get this idea.
From atheists?


You also seem to be suggesting that unbelievers attain to life ever after, which
again is expressly promised to those who have faith, which unbelievers do not.
Let's try again.

What part of the human needs to be annihilated in the second death.

The spirit of man (immaterial)?
The soul of man? (is this material or immaterial)?
The physical body? (material)

We are material beings meaning we have atoms and molecules.
Atheists believe that is all we are.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,159
30,309
113
#92
Let's try again.

What part of the human needs to be annihilated in the second death.

The spirit of man (immaterial)?
The soul of man? (is this material or immaterial)?
The physical body? (material)

We are material beings meaning we have atoms and molecules.
Atheists believe that is all we are.
Man became a living soul when God breathed the breath of life into the material aspect of Adam.

This same breath animates animals as well. Adam was of the natural world.

Upon death, the spirit of man returns to God Who gave it.

Soul and spirit are often used interchangeably in Scripture, but they
do seem to be separate things which the Spirit of God can separate.


At the end of this age when all men are resurrected for judgment,
I believe the Bible teaches that the whole person will be present.
That means body, spirit, and soul. All perishes in the second death.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,159
30,309
113
#93
We are material beings meaning we have atoms and molecules.
Atheists believe that is all we are.
As material beings we certainly are comprised of atoms and molecules, but
I have never been an atheist; even as a nonbeliever, that was never my stance :)
Meaning, I have never believed that is all we are ;)


I should probably amend my final statement from my last post.
To clarify: the whole person perishes, body and soul.


The Spirit of God is imperishable. That is why believers are not harmed by the second death.
Well, we do not go there, but we have the imperishable seed of God indwelling us.
We have put on the imperishable, and Christ's immortality.
 
Oct 12, 2021
165
21
18
#94
It is known as the resurrection of all at the end of this age, for judgment.

Those whose names are not found written in the Lamb's Book of Life pass into the second death.
*
God is the author and giver of life. He is eternally self existent. He alone is immortal.
Scripture plainly states this, and yet people will claim that man is born immortal in
direct contradiction to what Scripture plainly states. All life exists in, by, for, and within
Him. Those outside of Him at the end of this age following the resurrection and judgment
of all do not maintain life. They pass into the second death. A multitude of Scriptures attest
to the fact that the unrighteous perish, since death is the wages of sin. The word used (such
as in John 3:16), Strongs #622, is appolumi, which means: to destroy, destroy utterly. Some say
things like, utterly destroy does not mean utterly destroy, and dead means alive forevermore.


I don't see anything illogical about this.
We are living in the 'Age of Disinformation' and it starts with people such as you have quite rightly pointed, namely, those who treat words like Humpty Dumpty in that "a word means whatever I want it to mean" e.g. destroy means indestructible; God alone is immortal to mean ALL are immortal; such a thing never even entered my mind to I thought of that first; Black is White; Up is Down; good is bad and bad is good.........................
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
6,339
2,465
113
#95
We are living in the 'Age of Disinformation' and it starts with people such as you have quite rightly pointed, namely, those who treat words like Humpty Dumpty in that "a word means whatever I want it to mean" e.g. destroy means indestructible; God alone is immortal to mean ALL are immortal; such a thing never even entered my mind to I thought of that first; Black is White; Up is Down; good is bad and bad is good.........................
I would say that those who believe God annihilates are engage in changing the meaning of words as much as any other group.

Destroy and annihilate are not perfect synonyms.

Since the word annihilate has a Latin etymology and means nothingness, I think you have very weak case that it is synonymous with destroy as used in scripture.

So I would be very careful with these accusations since it also applies to your theory,
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,159
30,309
113
#97
I would say that those who believe God annihilates are engage in changing the meaning of words as much as any other group.

Destroy and annihilate are not perfect synonyms.

Since the word annihilate has a Latin etymology and means nothingness, I think you have very weak case that it is synonymous with destroy as used in scripture.

So I would be very careful with these accusations since it also applies to your theory,
I prefer the term "conditional immortality." To utterly destroy something annihilates it, though.


Apollumi: Strongs Concordance # 622
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,159
30,309
113
#98
Destroy and annihilate are not perfect synonyms.
Synonyms for destroy

consume
crush
damage
dismantle
end
eradicate
gut
impair
kill
maim
ravage
raze
ruin
sabotage
shatter
smash
smash-up
wipe out
wreck
abort
annihilate
annul
axe
butcher
cream
deface
desolate
despoil
dispatch
erase
exterminate
extinguish
extirpate
level
liquidate
mar
maraud
mutilate
nuke
nullify
overturn
quash
quell
ravish
slay
suppress
torpedo
total
trash
vaporize
waste
wax
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,230
2,208
113
#99
Why didn't God tell Adam, "Eat not from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, lest ye burn in hell forever?"
Sheesh. It's really no wonder that I always end up taking the cartoon approach. :unsure:
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,159
30,309
113
Why didn't God tell Adam, "Eat not from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, lest ye burn in hell forever?"
Sheesh. It's really no wonder that I always end up taking the cartoon approach. :unsure:
The lie Satan told, the one at the heart of the fall of man and corruption of all creation, is repeated by many. :censored::cry: