CJ Lovik with another prophecy backing up his 2030 return of Jesus
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Its ok. I am not sure how much more I can say peace. and safety (actually how much scripture can say it) even in peter. where it says as in the days of Noah..
if there is wrath in the first part..
1. It has the day of the Lord happening BEFORE the things paul said must happen first, including the man of sin being revealed. which happens at the AOD.
2. there is no peace or safety, there is fear and trepidation. and no basis for the man of sin to gain the confidence of the people..
if there is wrath in the first part..
1. It has the day of the Lord happening BEFORE the things paul said must happen first, including the man of sin being revealed. which happens at the AOD.
2. there is no peace or safety, there is fear and trepidation. and no basis for the man of sin to gain the confidence of the people..
... which I believe the Gog-Magog War is A PART of... noting the similarities of words found in both Seal #2 and Ezek38:4 ("all of them handling SWORDS")/ v.21's "SWORD [2x]" (including "every man's SWORD will be against his brother")... i.e. wars. (where the words "pestilence" [and so forth] follow in the next verse...)
And besides the "7 months" of burying the dead bodies and the "7 years" of burning the weapons, I've mentioned also the similarity in wording between what is stated in Ezek39:7 and that of what was said in the SECOND YEAR of Joseph's "7 year famine" in Gen45:1 [,6].
V.7 "SO [/in this manner] will I MAKE MY NAME KNOWN in the midst of My people Israel" (compare Gen45:1,6 "there STOOD NO MAN with him while Joseph MADE HIMSELF KNOWN UNTO HIS BRETHREN")... and noting the "wrath" wording in Ezek38:18,19.
Agreed.
But "the day of the Lord" is said to ARRIVE "exactly like [hosper]" the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that comes upon a woman in labor, and Jesus spoke of those [PLURAL] as occurring prior to and leading up to the "AOD" [start of the GREAT tribulation]...
...noting especially the FIRST ONE He mentioned, which was Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' ['a certain one' bringing deception]" which corresponds perfectly with the "whose COMING / ADVENT / ARRIVAL / PRESENCE / PAROUSIA" (2Th2:9a) of the man of sin, which verse corresponds with part "a" of Dan9:27 (9:27a) at the START of the "for ONE WEEK [/7 yrs]" (as well as Dan11:36-37=2Th2:4a,9) ... not at the LATER point in time (Dan9:27b, which corresponds with 2Th2:4b "sitteth," not to mention Dan11:12's "SET UP [H5414]" point in time, of the "abomination [singular] of desolation [singular]" Jesus referred to in Matt24:15--at the start of the GT [/second half of the 7 yr period]).
Additionally, the SEALS of Rev6 are equivalent "the beginning of birth pangs" Jesus spoke of... and the SEALS are included within the "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" per Rev1:1 / 1:19c [/4:1], i.e. the "future" aspects of the book (that is, AFTER the "24 elders" saying "hast redeemed US to God by thy blood out-of EVERY..." and wearing "stephanous / crowns" which are said to be awarded "IN THAT DAY"... not the day of Paul's / others' DEATHS, as many suppose).
Disagree, for reasons stated above... and many more...
And besides the "7 months" of burying the dead bodies and the "7 years" of burning the weapons, I've mentioned also the similarity in wording between what is stated in Ezek39:7 and that of what was said in the SECOND YEAR of Joseph's "7 year famine" in Gen45:1 [,6].
V.7 "SO [/in this manner] will I MAKE MY NAME KNOWN in the midst of My people Israel" (compare Gen45:1,6 "there STOOD NO MAN with him while Joseph MADE HIMSELF KNOWN UNTO HIS BRETHREN")... and noting the "wrath" wording in Ezek38:18,19.
Agreed.
But "the day of the Lord" is said to ARRIVE "exactly like [hosper]" the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that comes upon a woman in labor, and Jesus spoke of those [PLURAL] as occurring prior to and leading up to the "AOD" [start of the GREAT tribulation]...
...noting especially the FIRST ONE He mentioned, which was Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' ['a certain one' bringing deception]" which corresponds perfectly with the "whose COMING / ADVENT / ARRIVAL / PRESENCE / PAROUSIA" (2Th2:9a) of the man of sin, which verse corresponds with part "a" of Dan9:27 (9:27a) at the START of the "for ONE WEEK [/7 yrs]" (as well as Dan11:36-37=2Th2:4a,9) ... not at the LATER point in time (Dan9:27b, which corresponds with 2Th2:4b "sitteth," not to mention Dan11:12's "SET UP [H5414]" point in time, of the "abomination [singular] of desolation [singular]" Jesus referred to in Matt24:15--at the start of the GT [/second half of the 7 yr period]).
Additionally, the SEALS of Rev6 are equivalent "the beginning of birth pangs" Jesus spoke of... and the SEALS are included within the "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" per Rev1:1 / 1:19c [/4:1], i.e. the "future" aspects of the book (that is, AFTER the "24 elders" saying "hast redeemed US to God by thy blood out-of EVERY..." and wearing "stephanous / crowns" which are said to be awarded "IN THAT DAY"... not the day of Paul's / others' DEATHS, as many suppose).
Disagree, for reasons stated above... and many more...
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I disagree that the man of sin is "revealed" at the AOD point in the chronology (though I do realize that is popular opinion and repeated endlessly over the world wide web and elsewhere, lol)... for reasons I stated in my previous post (and more).
Paul is covering the spans of the entire "7 years" in his 2Th2 text... not merely 3.5 yrs of it (i.e. from the MID-point, or AOD point in the chronology).
Paul is covering the spans of the entire "7 years" in his 2Th2 text... not merely 3.5 yrs of it (i.e. from the MID-point, or AOD point in the chronology).
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"except" they used the very lame "Historicist" method of interpretation, incorrectly rendering the "1260 DAYS" as "1260 YEARS" [don't do that!!]... hello, anyone would come up with a "wrong conclusion" using that flawed method. 
lol
lol
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I would encourage you to read over my posts regarding the verses stating "but of that day and hour KNOWETH [PERFECT indicative] no man" (even Jesus, at the time spoken--and context here being His Second Coming to the earth point in time [NOT "our Rapture"]), which "KNOWETH [PERFECT indicative]" word does NOT convey the meaning of "shall NEVER know" nor "CAN NEVER know"... No.
Jesus (ever since His ascension / exaltation) Has known, and some 60+ years later disclosed FURTHER INFORMATION on THAT Subject in the (95ad) writing of Revelation... "[The] Revelation of Jesus Christ WHICH GOD GAVE UNTO HIM [unto Jesus] TO SHOW UNTO His servants things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (i.e. the 7-yr Trib "things") and so the "future" aspects of the book (4:1 and following) are riddled with various time-stamps and timing-indicators (some more readily apparent than others), that when coupled with the rest of Scripture, provides an outline / skeleton that can be plotted ON A CALENDAR... so that ppl who find themselves IN THE TRIB can and should be able to tell with some measure of accuracy the general time to expect His "RETURN" to the earth (at end of Trib, Rev19), the Subject of THAT VERSE (Matt24:36 and all its parallel passages saying same).
Hope that makes sense.
Again, I encourage you to read over some of my posts on that particular matter.
[This is also WHY one of the related passages states (in the context of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" i.e. as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom!!), "And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through"... implying that by this point, the "hour" should be KNOWN ahead of its happening (i.e. the hour of His Second Coming to the earth Rev19--again, NOT speaking of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" per context)]
I disagree with the the part I underlined in your quote, as well. = )
Jesus (ever since His ascension / exaltation) Has known, and some 60+ years later disclosed FURTHER INFORMATION on THAT Subject in the (95ad) writing of Revelation... "[The] Revelation of Jesus Christ WHICH GOD GAVE UNTO HIM [unto Jesus] TO SHOW UNTO His servants things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (i.e. the 7-yr Trib "things") and so the "future" aspects of the book (4:1 and following) are riddled with various time-stamps and timing-indicators (some more readily apparent than others), that when coupled with the rest of Scripture, provides an outline / skeleton that can be plotted ON A CALENDAR... so that ppl who find themselves IN THE TRIB can and should be able to tell with some measure of accuracy the general time to expect His "RETURN" to the earth (at end of Trib, Rev19), the Subject of THAT VERSE (Matt24:36 and all its parallel passages saying same).
Hope that makes sense.
Again, I encourage you to read over some of my posts on that particular matter.
[This is also WHY one of the related passages states (in the context of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" i.e. as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom!!), "And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through"... implying that by this point, the "hour" should be KNOWN ahead of its happening (i.e. the hour of His Second Coming to the earth Rev19--again, NOT speaking of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" per context)]
I disagree with the the part I underlined in your quote, as well. = )
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Thanks for taking the time to write out all that you did. We believe very differently about what is to come. I don't believe the book of Revelation is apocalyptic but prophetic so we won't find much agreement. While we agree that Jesus will return, our understanding of what that means is varies significantly.
Also, I'm a pretty simple guy. They way you tender your responses I find difficult to follow. So while I don't mind discussing eschatology, you will need to break out the Crayolas.
Also, I'm a pretty simple guy. They way you tender your responses I find difficult to follow. So while I don't mind discussing eschatology, you will need to break out the Crayolas.
I believe it is "prophetic"... so maybe we are in agreement??
(It is prophesying VERY SPECIFIC THINGS... including numerous time-stamps and various timing-indicators, as I'd mentioned.)
I believe one should be very wary of that which many ppl label "apocalyptic literature"... see this article I posted in past threads:
Apocalyptic Fixation – DR. RELUCTANT (wordpress.com)
Hope that helps you "see" my perspective a little bit better. = )
(It is prophesying VERY SPECIFIC THINGS... including numerous time-stamps and various timing-indicators, as I'd mentioned.)
I believe one should be very wary of that which many ppl label "apocalyptic literature"... see this article I posted in past threads:
Apocalyptic Fixation – DR. RELUCTANT (wordpress.com)
Hope that helps you "see" my perspective a little bit better. = )
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By apocalyptic I mean you have the world headed towards a cataclysmic event.
And of course prophesy would be included. I didn't mean to denigrate you in any way. I've read your posts and they exhibit a great deal of thought and a high level of scholarship. I just believe their underlying foundation is flawed.
I readily accept that the opposite is true.
And of course prophesy would be included. I didn't mean to denigrate you in any way. I've read your posts and they exhibit a great deal of thought and a high level of scholarship. I just believe their underlying foundation is flawed.
I readily accept that the opposite is true.
May I ask... where you say, "I believe He already did"... do you mean, [what is commonly termed] His First Advent [i.e. prior to the Cross]? or do you mean (as I've put in other past posts) that He ascended TWICE: once ON FIRSTFRUIT / His Resurrection Day... and then again some "40 days" later (in Acts 1--when He went up to Heaven VISIBLY in sight of them standing there watching Him go up);
so in that sense, He did come to the earth already and will again in Rev19 (commonly termed 'His Second Advent').
But in the passages speaking specifically of His "RETURN" (such as Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 and its parallel passage in Matt24:42-51; and in Lk19:12,15,17,19 and its parallel passage in Matt25:14-30), and in the passages speaking specifically of "Son of man COMETH / coming/ shall come / coming of [etc]" ALL refer to His Second Coming to the earth Rev19 point in time (i.e. Matt24:29-31 / Isa27:12-13,9... when EVERY EYE shall SEE Him), instead of the time following His first ascension ON FF / His Resurrection Day (when ONLY His carefully-chosen witnesses saw Him [for some "40 days"], not "everyone")... That'd be the difference, I would say.
What say you?
so in that sense, He did come to the earth already and will again in Rev19 (commonly termed 'His Second Advent').
But in the passages speaking specifically of His "RETURN" (such as Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 and its parallel passage in Matt24:42-51; and in Lk19:12,15,17,19 and its parallel passage in Matt25:14-30), and in the passages speaking specifically of "Son of man COMETH / coming/ shall come / coming of [etc]" ALL refer to His Second Coming to the earth Rev19 point in time (i.e. Matt24:29-31 / Isa27:12-13,9... when EVERY EYE shall SEE Him), instead of the time following His first ascension ON FF / His Resurrection Day (when ONLY His carefully-chosen witnesses saw Him [for some "40 days"], not "everyone")... That'd be the difference, I would say.
What say you?
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God and megog do not happen during a time of peace. It happens during as time of war. After the Antichrist declairs himself to be God and the nations turn on him and Israel.
A seal is not a birth pang.. Not sure where you got this idea. but it is wrong. we see the birth pangs caused by our own mistakes (global warming, overcrowding etc etc)
A seal is not a birth pang.. Not sure where you got this idea. but it is wrong. we see the birth pangs caused by our own mistakes (global warming, overcrowding etc etc)
This seems to be somewhat of "circular reasoning"...
... I mean, I did just say that SEAL #2 is that "peace is taken from the earth" (i.e. Seal #2 WARS... of which, I'm saying, the Gog-Magog War is A PART of them... one aspect of many wars at that time, iow not the only one).
[and for the readers: note that the "seals" of Rev6 CORRESPOND with what Jesus described as "the beginning of birth pangs" (not the BPs in their entirety...which follow on from "the BEGINNING of birth pangs"... which part ['the BEGINNING of'] CORRESPONDS with the seals of Rev6, which themselves are WITHIN the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period... aka the 7 yrs, so occurring WITHIN those years)]
... I mean, I did just say that SEAL #2 is that "peace is taken from the earth" (i.e. Seal #2 WARS... of which, I'm saying, the Gog-Magog War is A PART of them... one aspect of many wars at that time, iow not the only one).
[and for the readers: note that the "seals" of Rev6 CORRESPOND with what Jesus described as "the beginning of birth pangs" (not the BPs in their entirety...which follow on from "the BEGINNING of birth pangs"... which part ['the BEGINNING of'] CORRESPONDS with the seals of Rev6, which themselves are WITHIN the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period... aka the 7 yrs, so occurring WITHIN those years)]
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He
He returned to bring judgment in the first century.
Again, Crayola.
1 verse is sufficient for given point. I already know from the tone of our discussion that this is friendly fire and your intention is instruction in righteousness, not being right at all costs.
I have a question for you. What is the time frame of the kingdoms in Daniel 2 and the kingdom of God that is established?
He returned to bring judgment in the first century.
Again, Crayola.
1 verse is sufficient for given point. I already know from the tone of our discussion that this is friendly fire and your intention is instruction in righteousness, not being right at all costs.
I have a question for you. What is the time frame of the kingdoms in Daniel 2 and the kingdom of God that is established?