Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[Everlasting-Grace]

"should" meaning that he didn't, even though Jesus had explained it to him. So, his human intellect was insufficient
to grasp what Jesus was telling him. According to Jesus he should already have known that.

[Jhn 3:4, 9-10 KJV]
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? ...
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

He did explain it

Art thou a master of isreal and knowest not these things (he should have known how to be born again)

then read all the verses after that.

That is HOW one is born again.

 

[cv5]

Concerning involvment

The difference between you and I is this:

I DO NOT reject mans "involvement". Man is involved whether he likes it or not. And man DOES willfully reject the command of God to repent.

But this in no way undermines God's election and foreordination and Jesus statements about His sheep in the least. Which you DO REJECT.

The doctrine of election is perhaps the most iron-clad and biblically supported in all the Bible bar none.

 

[rogerg]

yes he MAKES us sinless (righteous) through faith..

It neither explicitly states nor implies that. You are adding to it. Faith is given only to its recipients. He, Himself,
puts His laws into their minds and writes them into their hearts.

 

[cv5]

He did explain it

Art thou a master of isreal and knowest not these things (he should have known how to be born again)

then read all the verses after that.

That is HOW one is born again.

Indubitably.

 

[rogerg]

He did explain it

Art thou a master of isreal and knowest not these things (he should have known how to be born again)

then read all the verses after that.

That is HOW one is born again.

He couldn't know. To know that he would already have had to been born again. As of the unborn-again, God's
laws weren't placed into his mind.

 

[VARob]

Those who are not elect. Those who are not foreordained. Those who are not written in the book of life.
I could go on for pages and pages.

To conclude that God's election is not operative is unbiblical folly. I have no idea why anybody has a problem with it.

The difference between you and I is this:

I DO NOT reject mans "involvement". Man is involved whether he likes it or not. And man DOES willfully reject the command of God to repent.

But this in no way undermines God's election and foreordination and Jesus statements about His sheep in the least. Which you DO REJECT.

The doctrine of election is perhaps the most iron-clad and biblically supported in all the Bible bar none.

I can't help but notice that you ignored the scriptures I gave, preferring instead to make dramatic declarations.

It's ok. This argument will continue until Christ returns. Then we'll find out whether Calvinism was true or not. I'm convinced you'll learn you were wrong.

 

[cv5]

I can't help but notice that you ignored the scriptures I gave

And vice versa.

But know this: Adam's fall was the result of him rejecting God's sovereignty.
God REASSERTING His sovereignty is part of the "Salvation package" whether people like it or not.

 

[VARob]

And vice versa.

No, I understand the word "elect" differently that you. God elects people who want Him.

But know this: Adam's fall was the result of him rejecting God's sovereignty.

Adam's fall was the result of his disobedience.

God REASSERTING His sovereignty is part of the "Salvation package" whether people like it or not.

Interesting phrase.. Is that in the Bible somewhere?

 

[cv5]

No, I understand the word "elect" differently that you. God elects people who want Him.
Adam's fall was the result of his disobedience.
Interesting phrase.. Is that in the Bible somewhere?

And here you go man.....

Act 13:48
And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

G5021 - tassō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org)

 

[VARob]

And here you go man.....

Act 13:48
And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

G5021 - tassō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org)

That verse can be translated in different ways. A lot of it depends on the translator's theology.

Acts 13:48 TLB When the non-Jewish people heard Paul say this, they were happy. They gave honor to the message of the Lord. And many of the people believed the message. They were the ones chosen to have life forever.

Acts 13:48 ICB When the non-Jewish people heard Paul say this, they were happy. They gave honor to the message of the Lord. And many of the people believed the message. They were the ones chosen to have life forever.

I do recognize that that verse is one of the go-to verses for Calvinism.

 

[rogerg]

And here you go man.....

Act 13:48
And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

G5021 - tassō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org)

Sorry, not sure I understand your POV. According to the verse you posted, you then believe that in order to believe, one must be
of those already ordained to eternal life? If so, then what contribution could they have made since they were already ordained to eternal life before they believed or to their belief since one caused the other?

 

[VARob]

Sorry, not sure I understand your POV. According to the verse you posted, you then believe that in order to believe, one must be
of those already ordained to eternal life? If so, then what contribution could they have made since they were already ordained to eternal life before they believed or to their belief since one caused the other?

He's on your team. He presented that verse in defense of Calvinism.

 

[rogerg]

He's on your team. He presented that verse in defense of Calvinism.

I realize that but I thought he has said he believes man contributes to his salvation, which, if I understand the verse
correctly, is saying the opposite of that - so I was just curious - no biggie.

 

[cv5]

That verse can be translated in different ways. A lot of it depends on the translator's theology.

I think not.....

Rom 13:1
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained G5021 of God.

Mat 28:16
Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed G5021 them.

Luk 7:8
For I also am a man set G5021 under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say unto one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.

Act 13:48
And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained G5021 to eternal life believed

Act 15:2
When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined G5021 that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

Act 22:10
And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed G5021 for thee to do.

Act 28:23
And when they had appointed G5021 him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.


1Co 16:15
I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted G5021 themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

 

[cv5]

Sorry, not sure I understand your POV. According to the verse you posted, you then believe that in order to believe, one must be
of those already ordained to eternal life? If so, then what contribution could they have made since they were already ordained to eternal life before they believed or to their belief since one caused the other?

Exactly......

 

[rogerg]

And here you go man.....

Act 13:48
And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

G5021 - tassō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org)

Great verse - it sums it all up perfectly in few words.

 

[VARob]

I think not.....

Think again.

Rom 13:1
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained G5021 of God.

Do you take this to believe that God ordained Hitler? Mussolini? Kim Jong Un?

Mat 28:16
Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed G5021 them.

Yes, Jesus told them to go to a mountain.

Luk 7:8
For I also am a man set G5021 under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say unto one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.

??

Act 13:48
And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained G5021 to eternal life believed

That's the verse we are discussing....

Act 15:2
When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined G5021 that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

Yep. They decided.

Act 22:10
And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed G5021 for thee to do.

Paul is relaying his conversion story. Jesus had things he wanted Paul to do. Paul was obedient (Acts 26:19).

Act 28:23
And when they had appointed G5021 him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

They picked a day. So?

1Co 16:15
I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted G5021 themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

Look at that! They addicted themselves!

 

[cv5]

Think again.


Do you take this to believe that God ordained Hitler? Mussolini? Kim Jong Un?


Yes, Jesus told them to go to a mountain.


??


That's the verse we are discussing....


Yep. They decided.


Paul is relaying his conversion story. Jesus had things he wanted Paul to do. Paul was obedient (Acts 26:19).


They picked a day. So?


Look at that! They addicted themselves!

I am unimpressed. Very unimpressed. Hermeneutics and correctly translating the Greek bro. Try it some time.

 

[VARob]

I am unimpressed. Very unimpressed. Hermeneutics and correctly translating the Greek bro. Try it some time.

I'm not impressed with your brushoff.

Later.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

It neither explicitly states nor implies that. You are adding to it. Faith is given only to its recipients. He, Himself,
puts His laws into their minds and writes them into their hearts.

so now you have flipped. It is not God who makes us righteous????