Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
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Far be it from me to waste anyone's time.
And personally, I have found our discussions to date thought provoking and helpful.
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Yup
[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
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Tongues is not a work, it is one of the manifestations of the gift of the Holy Spirit. When people decide to believe the gospel, they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, making them saved, and THEN they can use the manifestations of the gift. Speaking in tongues is not "working for salvation." A person cannot speak in tongues UNTIL he is saved.
I know... different topic for a different thread...
I know... different topic for a different thread...
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Hi BillG,
I don't know if this is your website or not, but I noticed an error on the one quoted above where the author stated the below:
"unmerited love and favor of God which is the spring and source of all benefits men receive from Him, including especially His assistance given man for his regeneration or sanctification. (Grace is) a virtue from God influencing man, renewing his heart and restraining him from sin. (Compare this more "modern Webster" with Noah Webster's original definition of grace) "
According to the author, grace is unmerited love and favor, but for something to be unmerited, it would require absolutely nothing from us, not even faith, and it wouldn't matter if we sinned in the first place, and the entire point of Christ's sacrifice would be defeated and was wholly unnecessary since we have unmerited love and favor.
So if you make grace = unmerited love and favor, it basically creates a Universalist's doctrine where nothing is required to stay in God's grace, not even a sacrificial lamb, or faith, or anything at all and it's a license to sin as well. Requiring my faith is putting a merit on that grace and contradicts the idea of "unmerited favor."
So my bottom line is, grace doesn't mean favor without merit. That isn't what the definition is in any lexicon or dictionary.
I don't know if this is your website or not, but I noticed an error on the one quoted above where the author stated the below:
"unmerited love and favor of God which is the spring and source of all benefits men receive from Him, including especially His assistance given man for his regeneration or sanctification. (Grace is) a virtue from God influencing man, renewing his heart and restraining him from sin. (Compare this more "modern Webster" with Noah Webster's original definition of grace) "
According to the author, grace is unmerited love and favor, but for something to be unmerited, it would require absolutely nothing from us, not even faith, and it wouldn't matter if we sinned in the first place, and the entire point of Christ's sacrifice would be defeated and was wholly unnecessary since we have unmerited love and favor.
So if you make grace = unmerited love and favor, it basically creates a Universalist's doctrine where nothing is required to stay in God's grace, not even a sacrificial lamb, or faith, or anything at all and it's a license to sin as well. Requiring my faith is putting a merit on that grace and contradicts the idea of "unmerited favor."
So my bottom line is, grace doesn't mean favor without merit. That isn't what the definition is in any lexicon or dictionary.
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Hi Runningman.
Sorry maybe I should have clarified the links.
No it's not my website.
Please post the definition from the lexicon or dictionary or the links you use so we can all have a look.
I disagree with your fourth paragraph.
Grace does not promote universalism.
Anyone who believes that grace is a license to sin should read Romans 5-6.
If they still believe that then shake the rise of your feet.
I am happy with my understanding of grace and I can tell you that I am not a universalist.
Further it's the grace of God that teaches us to be like Jesus.
Titus 2:11-12
Trained by Saving Grace
11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,
Titus 3:4-7
4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Sorry maybe I should have clarified the links.
No it's not my website.
Please post the definition from the lexicon or dictionary or the links you use so we can all have a look.
I disagree with your fourth paragraph.
Grace does not promote universalism.
Anyone who believes that grace is a license to sin should read Romans 5-6.
If they still believe that then shake the rise of your feet.
I am happy with my understanding of grace and I can tell you that I am not a universalist.
Further it's the grace of God that teaches us to be like Jesus.
Titus 2:11-12
Trained by Saving Grace
11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,
Titus 3:4-7
4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
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The word for grace in Ephesians 2:8 means this:
G5485 charis
Strong's Concordance
charis: grace, kindness
Original Word: χάρις, ιτος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: charis
Phonetic Spelling: (khar'-ece)
Definition: grace, kindness
Usage: (a) grace, as a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus Christ, (b) favor, (c) gratitude, thanks, (d) a favor, kindness.
So there's nothing about grace being unmerited there. It doesn't exist in the context and the fact that one can fall from grace is further proof that grace isn't unmerited.
Galatians 5
4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
So just using Galatians 5:4 as an example, there is a condition attached to grace, meaning there is something you and I can do to actually not be in God's grace. That's merited grace.
There's more examples, but that's one.
English dictionaries also define grace as favor, kindness, or goodwill with the leeway to make mistakes, keep the grace, with the expectation continual effort is being applied to stay in said grace.
In Christian theology, grace can mean "unmerited favor" but that's actually a denominational teaching rather than a Biblical teaching as I just showed you with Galatians 5:4.
So Christian theology isn't necessarily something explicitly Biblical. "Unmerited grace" is no exception.
G5485 charis
Strong's Concordance
charis: grace, kindness
Original Word: χάρις, ιτος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: charis
Phonetic Spelling: (khar'-ece)
Definition: grace, kindness
Usage: (a) grace, as a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus Christ, (b) favor, (c) gratitude, thanks, (d) a favor, kindness.
So there's nothing about grace being unmerited there. It doesn't exist in the context and the fact that one can fall from grace is further proof that grace isn't unmerited.
Galatians 5
4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
So just using Galatians 5:4 as an example, there is a condition attached to grace, meaning there is something you and I can do to actually not be in God's grace. That's merited grace.
There's more examples, but that's one.
English dictionaries also define grace as favor, kindness, or goodwill with the leeway to make mistakes, keep the grace, with the expectation continual effort is being applied to stay in said grace.
In Christian theology, grace can mean "unmerited favor" but that's actually a denominational teaching rather than a Biblical teaching as I just showed you with Galatians 5:4.
So Christian theology isn't necessarily something explicitly Biblical. "Unmerited grace" is no exception.
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What I am trying to understand..... is why those schooled in this school of thought/dogma always, and I mean always come back
with the same ole tired, devoid of thought response.
Some thing must happen to the mind of people who adopt or are raised in this dogma.
It is truly disturbing and scary this "group mind think."