Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

Banned
#4,563
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,330
113
#4,563
How do you know you are Saved if you don't have any knowledge about your conversion?
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#4,564
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
113
#4,564
The_Watchers_2017 said:
2 Peter 2:20

Shows us Saved people who kept sinning become entangled in their sin and ended up worse off than before.

Where's the Part at God still saved them because IT DOESN'T EXIST?
Click to expand...
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

A dog is still a dog. A child of God is made into a new creature. so it is understandable if a Dog returns to what he really is. A sow is also still a SOW. if they have nto been made into a new creature. they will return to who they are.

I am confused as to why people make this so difficult to understand
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

Banned
#4,566
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,330
113
#4,566
Everlasting-Grace said:
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

A dog is still a dog. A child of God is made into a new creature. so it is understandable if a Dog returns to what he really is. A sow is also still a SOW. if they have nto been made into a new creature. they will return to who they are.

I am confused as to why people make this so difficult to understand
Click to expand...
I am confused how you can deny Scripture and make it become something that it is not claiming.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#4,567
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
113
#4,567
ResidentAlien said:
Peter isn't calling these people dogs. He's simply using this proverb to illustrate what their behavior is like.

"For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: 'A dog returns to his own vomit,' and, 'a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.' " 2 Peter 2:20-22​

This is so elementary and so obvious I can hardly believe it needs explaining.
Click to expand...
so elementary yet you can not understand it.

The proverb is easy

a dog retrns to being a dog

a sow returns to being a sow

A child of God is no longer a dog. or a sow. we are sheep. We would not return to being a dog or a sow because we have a new nature.

God changes us. its not us trying to change ourself into a sheep or back to a dog
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#4,570
Apr 22, 2013
13,572
9,091
113
#4,570
The_Watchers_2017 said:
It says they ESCAPED.
Click to expand...
So the word "escape" now means "saved"?

Show me it says these dogs were saved.

I can give my dog a bath, and she can be clean as whistle. She has escaped the filth of the outside world. Then I can let her out, and she can come back in TWICE as filthy.

But somehow, she always comes back as a dog!
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

Banned
#4,572
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,330
113
#4,572
Everlasting-Grace said:
so elementary yet you can not understand it.

The proverb is easy

a dog retrns to being a dog

a sow returns to being a sow

A child of God is no longer a dog. or a sow. we are sheep. We would not return to being a dog or a sow because we have a new nature.

God changes us. its not us trying to change ourself into a sheep or back to a dog
Click to expand...
Peter is using a Proverb that is not speaking about sheep but about habits.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#4,573
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
113
#4,573
The_Watchers_2017 said:
Agreed!

But I already mentioned I once had a Baptist Pastor who Preached OSAS and CALVINISM while he led KKK members to hunt down and hang people of color off tree branches.

They can only see their own deception as being a truth.
Click to expand...
so you assume because he taught OSAS he was a child of God? or was like the rest of us?

and you are going to use this to remain in darkness and refuse to Give God the credit for salvation and taking it on yourself?
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#4,574
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
113
#4,574
The_Watchers_2017 said:
It says they ESCAPED.

WHEN you were Saved didn't you escape your DEFILEMENTS?
Click to expand...
I escaped the day my mother and father brought me to the church and we started to habng out with Gods people. I was saved a few years later when I repented and came to christ. by recieving his gift. .
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

Banned
#4,575
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,330
113
#4,575
PennEd said:
So the word "escape" now means "saved"?

Show me it says these dogs were saved.

I can give my dog a bath, and she can be clean as whistle. She has escaped the filth of the outside world. Then I can let her out, and she can come back in TWICE as filthy.

But somehow, she always comes back as a dog!
Click to expand...
Yes because of habits.

Peter is talking about saved people continuing to Sin in same ways they did before they were saved and that habit is no different than a dog returning to its vomit or a pig to its mud.
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

Banned
#4,576
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,330
113
#4,576
Everlasting-Grace said:
I escaped the day my mother and father brought me to the church and we started to habng out with Gods people. I was saved a few years later when I repented and came to christ. by recieving his gift. .
Click to expand...
You didn't escape until you accepted God's invitation.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#4,579
Apr 21, 2021
8,235
3,575
113
#4,579
rogerg said:
I think the key to 2 Peter 2:20 is the word "knowledge". Knowledge is produced from/by man's intellect and thereby can be invalidated or overturned by man's intellect. True faith, however, cannot be. It is a gift from God and is by a new mind and a new heart to those born-again. They have become a new person in Christ. A new man cannot make of himself the old man.
Click to expand...
The word translated knowledge here is epignósis. It's not talking about head knowledge but first-hand experiential knowledge. It's talking about the knowledge of the truth received from the Holy Spirit.

https://biblehub.com/greek/1922.htm
 
R

rogerg

Well-known member
#4,580
Jul 13, 2021
3,642
564
113
#4,580
The_Watchers_2017 said:
How do you know your Faith does?
Click to expand...
Wisdom given from God, not man's knowledge.

[1Co 2:4-6 KJV]
4 And my speech and my preaching [was] not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

[1Co 2:12-14 KJV]
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.