Justified/Saved by Faith & Faith Alone

[HeIsHere]

You're entitled to your belief.

I read see Hebrews, like Acts as a covenant to covenant (law to faith) transitional book.

James 1:1 states: To the 12 tribes which are SCATTERED abroad. Clearly written to those that had confessed Christ & had to scattered abroad for safety.

The Epistle to Hebrews doesn't make any target audience claims. Chapter 1 is clear to me it's audience extends beyond believers alone. Others are free to make their own observation.

The writer calls the audience “holy brethren” (Heb 3:1).
The writer puts himself into the group.......(“we”) as ones who “have faith” (Heb 10:39).
Readers are referred to as “sons” who have a relationship with God the Father (Heb 12:5, 7, 8).
The writer did not exhort readers to “believe in Jesus for eternal life” anywhere in Hebrews.
The writer did exhort (Heb 13:22) readers to “press on to maturity” (Heb 6:1) in the faith they already possessed (Heb 6:4-5). To exhort unbelievers to “press on to maturity” makes no sense to unbelievers.

Yes indeed that is my belief supported by the evidence.

 

[Inquisitor]

ok.

So I have just believe. and I am saved. even though I do not have faith;. and I can go on living however I want based on my lack of faith?

please say you do not believe this

John 3:18
The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Once again, the only way to be saved is by believing in Jesus.

How you live your Christian life in response to that gift of salvation, is another matter altogether.

We are saved by grace through faith and that is clearly explained throughout the New Testament.

You cannot save yourself, you cannot co-contribute to your salvation.

Jesus Christ is the one who has offered salvation to everyone as a gift, freely offered.

Yes, yes, yes, to be saved is simply believing in Jesus Christ.

Why don't people understand the simple verses that testify of the reconciliation, that Jesus has accomplished?

Why do so many churches think it's Jesus plus my obedient life?

Why do churches teach it's Jesus plus my holiness?

Why do some churches teach the impossible road of never ending works for salvation?

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Simple verses folks.

 

[Inquisitor]

ok.

So I have just believe. and I am saved. even though I do not have faith;. and I can go on living however I want based on my lack of faith?

please say you do not believe this

Your confusing two fundamental doctrines.

1) Salvation is a gift given to you by Jesus alone. (First doctrine)

2) Your response to the reception of that gift of perfect righteousness, as a gift, is your Christian life. (Second doctrine)

These two doctrines are separate, not interwoven. You believe then receive the Holy Spirit, you proceed and act under the power of the Holy Spirit. One follows on from the other.

Acts 15:11
But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.

 

[Dino246]

If alleged exegesis results in a different meaning than what the plain text of a passage says, then it isn’t worth considering. The Bible is in agreement with itself and uses its own internal evidences to support its claims.

Where the Bible says repent, it means repent. Where the Bible says believe, it means believe. No need to change anything to support the false narrative of “faith alone.”

Again, who is making these alleged "changes"?

 

[Dino246]

Paul didn’t teach easy believism either. Paul warned about not entering the kingdom of God, the dangers of walking in the flesh, being a Gentile branch that can be broken off just like the Jewish branches broken off. He spoke these things to Christians. Those things aren’t faith alone doctrines.

Again, your concept of "faith alone" is flawed. Study the history instead of making wild assertions that have little to no relationship to the actual issue.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Rom 3:
21 But now the righteousness of God has been clearly revealed [independently and completely] apart from the Law, though it is [actually] confirmed by the Law and the [words and writings of the] Prophets.

22 This righteousness of God comes through faith in Jesus Christ for all those [Jew or Gentile] who believe [and trust in Him and acknowledge Him as God’s Son]. There is no distinction,

23 since all have sinned and continually fall short of the glory of God,

24 and are being justified [declared free of the guilt of sin, made acceptable to God, and granted eternal life] as a gift by His [precious, undeserved] [c]grace, through the redemption [the payment for our sin] which is [provided] in Christ Jesus,

25 whom God displayed publicly [before the eyes of the world] as a [life-giving] [d]sacrifice of atonement and reconciliation (propitiation) by His blood [to be received] through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness [which demands punishment for sin], because in His forbearance [His deliberate restraint] He passed over the sins previously committed [before Jesus’ crucifixion].

26 It was to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the One who justifies those who have faith in Jesus [and rely confidently on Him as Savior].

Eph 2:
8 For it is by grace [God’s remarkable compassion and favor drawing you to Christ] that you have been saved [actually delivered from judgment and given eternal life] through faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [not through your own effort], but it is the [undeserved, gracious] gift of God;

9 not as a result of [your] works [nor your attempts to keep the Law], so that no one will [be able to] boast or take credit in any way [for his salvation]

Rom. 3:24 and are being justified [declared free of the guilt of sin, made acceptable to God, and granted eternal life] as a gift by His [precious, undeserved] [c]grace, through the redemption [the payment for our sin] which is [provided] in Christ Jesus,

Rom 10:
9 because if you acknowledge and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord [recognizing His power, authority, and majesty as God], and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

10 For with the heart a person believes [in Christ as Savior] resulting in his justification [that is, being made righteous—being freed of the guilt of sin and made acceptable to God]; and with the mouth he acknowledges and confesses [his faith openly], resulting in and confirming [his] salvation.

Acts 10:
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all those who were listening to the message [confirming God’s acceptance of Gentiles].
(MY NOTE: As Peter spoke, (Faith comes by hearing - Rom 10:17) those hearing believed)

45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles
(MY NOTE: Thru faith alone, regeneration/Christ's salvation sealing/eternal life giving Holy Spirit (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14, Eph 4:30) was/is given!)

Posted passages proclaim Salvation/Eternal Life is given via faith in the merits/work/sin payment & resurrection of Christ. Also see 1 Jn 2:2 & 1 Jn 4:10

Amen.All due first and foremost to the grace of our Father.

 

[HeIsHere]

In their belief in Jesus, of course. Otherwise they cannot be saved, since that belief in Jesus, is the core doctrine of Christianity.

Perhaps, I am not reading this correctly, if you are asserting that one must continue to trust in Jesus to remain justified, I would

then have to ask, do I have to keep trusting that I have a car sitting in my garage for it to actually be in my garage?

 

[HeIsHere]

It's not about an unknown level of good works. It's about a bare profession of faith that results in no good works at all. Don't be so dramatic.

I forgot to say, that may exist, and I am not saying it does not, but it is not what James is addressing.

If is was he would have very clearly gone over the path to salvation and he does not.

 

[HeIsHere]

Repentance isn’t a one-and-done deal then you’re free to go sin all you want. Repentance is demonstrated by works, hence the requirement for works. True repentance is manifested in works and it’ll probably require a lifetime of effort. Hence easy-believism is a scam.

This is completely contrary to the Gospel.

Basically you want to be compensated for your work and nullify the work of Christ.

Doesn't it bother you to treat the work of Christ Jesus with such little regard.

I find this post very, very troubling.

 

[ButterflyJones]

It's not complicated nor a contradiction when one realizes the difference in audience. Compare...

Paul says: 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

James says: 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

I understand most commentaries explain it away by forcing the square peg into the round hole, but James is not answering the question, "Will works follow faith?" James is answering the question, "Can faith save him?" No amount of works justifies.

I think the full chapter of James insures we know that doing good, called works, is proof of justification. It is not a mandate to achieve or secure salvation.


Even in the apostles day there was conflict regarding the teachings of Christ.

Acts 15:1
“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.”


And then not long after we read this, “Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:” Acts 15:24


Galatians 5:2
“Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.”

We know in Acts 16:3 Paul had Timothy circumcised but that wasn't to secure his salvation. Had it been so that would be injecting a law into God's grace filled good news.

Which would be wrong and have Paul to contradict himself in Ephesians 2.

 

[HeIsHere]

I think the full chapter of James insures we know that doing good, called works, is proof of justification.

I wonder about the false professors who do wonderful, good works, does James ever address those people?

 

[ButterflyJones]

I wonder about the false professors who do wonderful, good works, does James ever address those people?

Good question.

While I think in matters of the works securing salvation question that Paul settles the answer in Ephesians 2.
Salvation is entirely of God.

 

[Runningman]

This is completely contrary to the Gospel.

Basically you want to be compensated for your work and nullify the work of Christ.

Doesn't it bother you to treat the work of Christ Jesus with such little regard.

I find this post very, very troubling.

It’s not good when one is offended by the words of the Bible. Before I show you that repentance can be required more than once, I urge you to consider it and research it yourself.

 

[John146]

I think the full chapter of James insures we know that doing good, called works, is proof of justification. It is not a mandate to achieve or secure salvation.


Even in the apostles day there was conflict regarding the teachings of Christ.

Acts 15:1
“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.”


And then not long after we read this, “Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:” Acts 15:24


Galatians 5:2
“Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.”

We know in Acts 16:3 Paul had Timothy circumcised but that wasn't to secure his salvation. Had it been so that would be injecting a law into God's grace filled good news.

Which would be wrong and have Paul to contradict himself in Ephesians 2.

Does God need to see our works to justify our salvation?

 

[HeIsHere]

It’s not good when one is offended by the words of the Bible. Before I show you that repentance can be required more than once, I urge you to consider it and research it yourself.

Jesus called salvation the second birth. A birth occurs as one event.

The simple facts escape you (the milk) how do you expect to understand the more complex parts of scripture. sigh

 

[Runningman]

Jesus called salvation the second birth. A birth occurs as one event.

The simple facts escape you (the milk) how do you expect to understand the more complex parts of scripture. sigh

Can I ask you a question? If yes, what does Romans 6 mean?

Because what I see is that Christ died and was raised from the dead. However, we didn’t die like Christ did nor were we resurrected like Christ. Christ can’t die “again” because he was raised from the dead. Since we don’t share the same death and resurrection as Christ, yet, how could we be dead to sin? What prevents us from spiritually dying more than once because of sin?

8Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
11In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

 

[Runningman]

Actually, read all of Romans 6 very carefully. Paul doesn’t come right out and say it, but it really looks like people can die spiritually more than once until their resurrection.

14For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

so we’re under grace. Can grace be lost? Can someone come under the law again?

Next check Galatians 5.

Very eye-opening. I hope someone else sees what I’m talking about.

 

[mailmandan]

No I am stating it is dead.

It is there but dead >>>> as in not being used like a tiny little little light and no one can see it because we cannot see faith unless it is demonstrated through outward action.

What you are describing is more like "dormant" and not dead. The opposite of dead is alive.

I think the word dead causes the problem, if you can see meaning of the word meaning as "not empowered" by works it all makes a lot more sense.

James 2:14 - What is the benefit, my fellow believers, if someone claims to have faith but has no [good] works [as evidence]? Can that [kind of] faith save him? [No, a mere claim of faith is not sufficient—genuine faith produces good works.] (AMP)

Also it shuts down the false view that salvation can be lost.

An empty profession of faith/dead faith also shuts down that view. You can't lose what you never had.

 

[mailmandan]

Drama is the only way to get noticed around here.

If you are referring to "you will know them by their fruits" fruits here very clearly means the adherents of false teachers.

A bare profession of faith can result in good works, perhaps even more so because they want to prove themselves.

In Matthew 7:17-20, Jesus said - Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them. Genuine good works are not produced by unbelievers but only by those who are created in Christ Jesus. (Ephesians 2:8-10) Apart from Christ we can do nothing. (John 15:4-5) Attempted good works by unbelievers remain stained with sin and in the eyes of God are like filthy rags. (Isaiah 64:6; Matthew 7:22-23)

I really think you need to face the fact that James is not comparing "fake believers" with genuine believers but rather believers who are living as their old self rather than their new self.

Says/claims to have faith but has no works. Can that faith save him? That says it all for me. Bare profession of faith. James did not say what good is it if a man actually has faith but as of yet has no works.

"Dead" does not mean non-existent,, nor does it mean a little bit alive, or mere, it means dead >>>>> INACTIVE like a dead body,

Dead means dead. Opposite of alive. What you are describing is dormant and not dead. A body without the spirit is not merely dormant, but dead. In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life.

You have a huge logic hurdle you need to explain to the drama queen here.

Confusing dormant with dead is not logical.

 

[mailmandan]

This is a command given to them, not a forgone conclusion of their behaviour.

The fact that they are being preached/told to "prove their repentance" is because it does not happen automatically.

We prove our repentance by our deeds, but we do not establish it. Deeds are the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8) but not the essence of repentance. I think even the drama queen would agree with that.