Why I post about Christians and dating.
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Sounds like this friend of yours had some insight here. How do you know that the Lord didn't give her a "nudge" about this woman?
And rather than listen, or more importantly pray about it, you said "I don't care what you or anyone else thinks, I'm choosing her."
And then you're surprised (and I'm guessing broken hearted) when this woman leaves for Denver and tells you she's with someone else?
Okay, yeah, sure. Maybe God was trying to control and block this relationship (for your protection- hence your friends warning) but you were too stubborn to see that.
And rather than listen, or more importantly pray about it, you said "I don't care what you or anyone else thinks, I'm choosing her."
And then you're surprised (and I'm guessing broken hearted) when this woman leaves for Denver and tells you she's with someone else?
Okay, yeah, sure. Maybe God was trying to control and block this relationship (for your protection- hence your friends warning) but you were too stubborn to see that.
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Unfortunately many Christians now think of any human touch leads to sexual immorality. Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa had a dance class for the high school. They put the footsteps on the floor for the kids to walk through, but they were not allowed to touch each other. The Singles group did not approve on one on one dating. They only supported group dating.
I'm not replying specifically to the OP but in general to this sort of discussion as commonly encountered.
The English word "lust" is found 40 times in the KJV New Testament, but 8 times in the RSV NT and only 1 time in the YLT NT where it is used in 2 Tim. 2:22. Lust is usually thought of as sexual sin and the best known use of sinful "lust" is,
"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (Matt 5:28) [the Greek translated "lust" here is epithumeo]
Luke uses the same Greek epithumeo for a desire of Jesus in the following,
"And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God." (Luke 22:15-16)
What to one man is sinful lust, especially sexual in nature; is to another man perfectly moral and legitimate desire as God has created us. The sinfulness of lust/desire in Matt. 5:28 is not because the word "lust" is used, or the intensity of the desire; but it is the sinful object of desire. Jesus speaks of "adultery" so the violation of the marriage vow is the sin desired. It was NOT the natural appreciation of an attractive woman but a "looking on a woman to desire her" where existing marriage is involved.
For those pondering natural sexual desire as a child of God, I would suggest a close reading of the Song of Solomon and I'd recommend doing so in the NEB, which can be read here: https://www.katapi.org.uk/NEB/NEB.html
I'm recommending this rather unknown 1970 translation here for a couple reasons, one is a statement in its Preface "...a completely new translation should be made, rather than a revision, such as had earlier been contemplated by the University Presses of Oxford and Cambridge; and that the translators should be free to employ a contemporary idiom rather than reproduce the traditional 'biblical' English." In Christian circles, discussion of sex takes place in the context of the Sunday School Christian which too often is a sanctimonious version of real life which can tend toward hypocrisy.
The second reason for the NEB is the dialogue is clearly presented so you can keep up with the speakers. This is a dynamic equivalence, or thought for thought translation of the UK.
When reading the thoughts of the bride and bridegroom, I ask myself "Did these thoughts and desires only appear once they were betrothed? Or was it decent and natural as God created man and woman?"
It can be misleading to listen to others about "lust" and sex, so God's word prayerfully studied is the best course of action for a believer. 1 Cor 7:1ff and Matt. 19:1ff are some good passages.
The English word "lust" is found 40 times in the KJV New Testament, but 8 times in the RSV NT and only 1 time in the YLT NT where it is used in 2 Tim. 2:22. Lust is usually thought of as sexual sin and the best known use of sinful "lust" is,
"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (Matt 5:28) [the Greek translated "lust" here is epithumeo]
Luke uses the same Greek epithumeo for a desire of Jesus in the following,
"And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God." (Luke 22:15-16)
What to one man is sinful lust, especially sexual in nature; is to another man perfectly moral and legitimate desire as God has created us. The sinfulness of lust/desire in Matt. 5:28 is not because the word "lust" is used, or the intensity of the desire; but it is the sinful object of desire. Jesus speaks of "adultery" so the violation of the marriage vow is the sin desired. It was NOT the natural appreciation of an attractive woman but a "looking on a woman to desire her" where existing marriage is involved.
For those pondering natural sexual desire as a child of God, I would suggest a close reading of the Song of Solomon and I'd recommend doing so in the NEB, which can be read here: https://www.katapi.org.uk/NEB/NEB.html
I'm recommending this rather unknown 1970 translation here for a couple reasons, one is a statement in its Preface "...a completely new translation should be made, rather than a revision, such as had earlier been contemplated by the University Presses of Oxford and Cambridge; and that the translators should be free to employ a contemporary idiom rather than reproduce the traditional 'biblical' English." In Christian circles, discussion of sex takes place in the context of the Sunday School Christian which too often is a sanctimonious version of real life which can tend toward hypocrisy.
The second reason for the NEB is the dialogue is clearly presented so you can keep up with the speakers. This is a dynamic equivalence, or thought for thought translation of the UK.
When reading the thoughts of the bride and bridegroom, I ask myself "Did these thoughts and desires only appear once they were betrothed? Or was it decent and natural as God created man and woman?"
It can be misleading to listen to others about "lust" and sex, so God's word prayerfully studied is the best course of action for a believer. 1 Cor 7:1ff and Matt. 19:1ff are some good passages.
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I find that very consistent with the way GOD works. He meant what He said when He spoke to you through your friend. You didn't heed, so He moved her and brought her to the reason she was not for you.
She was a test for you, and you may have been a test for her. Likely, your friend started praying when she gave you that message and this moved GOD to move quickly to back up His word through her.
She was a test for you, and you may have been a test for her. Likely, your friend started praying when she gave you that message and this moved GOD to move quickly to back up His word through her.
JOY: Where is our Focus?
If we cannot find joy in the Lord, or joy in the Brethren, or joy in the tasks, vocations or ministries God has given us to do... then the problem is not in our circumstances, but in ourselves.
It is normal to go through painful times and feel pain.
That is normal.
I feel pain at painful times.
But I've noticed something very odd:
I don't feel pain when I'm focused on God, or focused on others... I only feel pain when I'm focused on myself.
It is a choice to make ourselves miserable by focusing on ourselves, and all the things we feel are unfair.
It is a choice.
It is a choice to focus on the unanswered prayers, instead of all the answered ones.
It is a choice to focus on our lacks, instead of our abundance.
It is a choice to focus on our despair, instead of our many blessings.
It is a choice.
It's not always an easy choice... but it's still a choice.
Instead of focusing on pain, we can just as easily focus on God, and how he gave us life and salvation.
When we focus on God, something changes.
When we focus on God, our thoughts become bigger, brighter, more hopeful, more joyous.
Why?
Because God is just very very big.
There is nothing he cannot do for us, nothing he cannot save us from.
There is nothing he cannot give us, if he feels it is the right thing, and the right time.
If God can make the entire universe out of nothing, then he can easily help one tiny human with whatever I need. Nothing is even hard for him. And if he does not give me something, or give it right away... I can trust him... he knows best"
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If we cannot find joy in the Lord, or joy in the Brethren, or joy in the tasks, vocations or ministries God has given us to do... then the problem is not in our circumstances, but in ourselves.
It is normal to go through painful times and feel pain.
That is normal.
I feel pain at painful times.
But I've noticed something very odd:
I don't feel pain when I'm focused on God, or focused on others... I only feel pain when I'm focused on myself.
It is a choice to make ourselves miserable by focusing on ourselves, and all the things we feel are unfair.
It is a choice.
It is a choice to focus on the unanswered prayers, instead of all the answered ones.
It is a choice to focus on our lacks, instead of our abundance.
It is a choice to focus on our despair, instead of our many blessings.
It is a choice.
It's not always an easy choice... but it's still a choice.
Instead of focusing on pain, we can just as easily focus on God, and how he gave us life and salvation.
When we focus on God, something changes.
When we focus on God, our thoughts become bigger, brighter, more hopeful, more joyous.
Why?
Because God is just very very big.
There is nothing he cannot do for us, nothing he cannot save us from.
There is nothing he cannot give us, if he feels it is the right thing, and the right time.
If God can make the entire universe out of nothing, then he can easily help one tiny human with whatever I need. Nothing is even hard for him. And if he does not give me something, or give it right away... I can trust him... he knows best"
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This an example of the misleading use of the word "lust". Does a man marry a woman for whom he has felt or entertained no substantial sexual desire? I believe my original reply fully answers your question. If a person desires to do something sinful, that desire is sinful whether is is sexual or any other sin. Keep in mind the word "lust" is overwhelmingly used in the KJV and a KJV verse is interesting in the comparison made about "lust",
"What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet." (Rom 7:7)
Covet means to desire inordinately; to desire that which it is unlawful to obtain or possess; in a bad sense.
"What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet." (Rom 7:7)
Covet means to desire inordinately; to desire that which it is unlawful to obtain or possess; in a bad sense.
Two are better than one, because they have a good return for their labor:
If either of them falls down, one can help the other up.
But pity anyone who falls and has no one to help them up.
Also, if two lie down together, they will keep warm.
But how can one keep warm alone?
Though one may be overpowered, two can defend themselves.
A cord of three strands is not quickly broken
Ecclesiastes 4:9
If either of them falls down, one can help the other up.
But pity anyone who falls and has no one to help them up.
Also, if two lie down together, they will keep warm.
But how can one keep warm alone?
Though one may be overpowered, two can defend themselves.
A cord of three strands is not quickly broken
Ecclesiastes 4:9
Hey John,
Those are great verses, but they don't contradict or change anything I said previously.
Two propositions are not logically contradictory merely because they bother us:
A.) a wife is a good thing, and is a great blessing
B.) you can be single, and be fine, and have joy
Both A and B are true, and can be true at the same time... both are true, and both are in the Bible.
I wrote that long post (previously) in the hope you, and others, might rethink some things... consider another perspective.
I didn't write all of that to argue.
And to be honest, I don't think there's anything to argue... I just reiterated Biblical principles we've all heard before.
Many Biblical principles are easy to understand, but hard to apply... that's how spiritual things work.
We all struggle in applying scripture to our daily life... we're all in the same boat.
God Bless, and I hope you have a great week.
Those are great verses, but they don't contradict or change anything I said previously.
Two propositions are not logically contradictory merely because they bother us:
A.) a wife is a good thing, and is a great blessing
B.) you can be single, and be fine, and have joy
Both A and B are true, and can be true at the same time... both are true, and both are in the Bible.
I wrote that long post (previously) in the hope you, and others, might rethink some things... consider another perspective.
I didn't write all of that to argue.
And to be honest, I don't think there's anything to argue... I just reiterated Biblical principles we've all heard before.
Many Biblical principles are easy to understand, but hard to apply... that's how spiritual things work.
We all struggle in applying scripture to our daily life... we're all in the same boat.
God Bless, and I hope you have a great week.